| Author | Message | ||
     Brion |
Friends and fellow Buellers, I come in Peace. I came to look for advice about headwork and know where I went wrong in my quest. I made a derogatory comment about the price that Nallin Racing wanted for the stage III work. No doubt, but I am sure there are alternatives. Most of the people that I know as car, or bike racing enthusiasts are mechanically minded people and some are damn good mechanics who only send out the work that they can't do themselves mostly because of equipment limitations such as balancing machines, milling machines, etc. Many of the initial ideas that evolve into standard practices have originated as ideas form the guys on the streets and tracks from years of crashing and blowing their hard earned dollars up and then asking what if I did it a different way. The shops get their input from them and us. I was a bit taken aback by some of the replies that I received. Kaudette makes the point isn't this discussion supposed to be about head work. I am happy that my topic brought so much interest, but disappointed in the fiasco that has resulted because of it. I have received amongst the detritus some good info, but why couldn't we just stick to that. I apologize if I have offended anyone. P.S. I went to my podners shop yesterday and asked him to let me dyno both of my bikes next week. I will dyno the S3 with and without the Nology wires, but the XB9R I will do only with them and post the results. I only have a factory race kit otherwise so some should easily be able to determine if I am getting better performance, which I feel will be quantifiable via the dyno. I only posted that not to justify to myself spending the 150 bucks, hell I piss that away on a night out. I did it just to share the success that I have obtained. Happy Thanksgiving, Brion | ||
| Tdshepard |
First post here, trying to learn all about Buells so I can find a good used one.... I am a DIY guy and have ported/polished heads on cars and Harleys. If you use common sense and do some research you can make horsepower with a die grinder and a motorcycle kit from http://www.sa-motorsports.com/ I know they won't compare to a pro's work but there are obvious casting flaws to remove and a gasket match can do wonders. I like to keep my ports small so there is high velocity and better cylinder filling so I am conservative in my approach and have always been pleased with my results. Be sure to read the FAQ and tech articles at the above web site...... | ||
| Brion |
TD, Thanks for the hyperlink this is the kind of stuff I am looking for. I guess you are looking for an XB rather than a tube frame model. If you are looking for something with plenty of torque straight off the bat you may look for an 2000 X1, or for just crusing around an S3 or S3T. If you are looking for an XB maybe you should wait until some of the XB12's start hitting the market used. You are definitely looking in the right place for data on the XB's though. Here is another site that I think you will enjoy http://groups.msn.com/xb9r Corey ist the man there. Guys also if you want a second oppinion on the Nology wires take a look at that site. Brion Brion | ||
| Tdshepard |
Actually I am looking for a tube frame model but want to find a real bargain close to $4000 so I may have a long search. I have put oversize valves in heads but sometimes low end torque can suffer. I do think tulip shaped valves in the stock diameter are a great idea as more mixture can get by them. I like http://www.ferrea.com/ but I am not sure if their Harley valves will fit your application. I am sure there are other good choices. When you remove a coked up stock valve and compare it with a Ferrea valve you can just SEE the horsepower! | ||
| Needforspeed2 |
TD, I've got a 96 S1 that I need to sell so I can get an XB9R. I just nedd to sell it for some quick cash. If your serious about an affordable tube frame bike, let's talk. | ||
| Tdshepard |
needforspeed2 you have email | ||
| Pammy |
Brion, first off. I apologize for aiding in the hi-jacking of your thread. You can certainly do some porting for yourself, but as someone mentioned in the other thread, you should keep it to a minimum. It is possible to go too far and then you have created a huge expense for yourself. The art(and it most certainly IS art) of headporting isn't just about flow. It is about velocity as well. You have to take into consideration volumetric effeciency. The cams come into consideration as well as bore, stroke, rpm range, intake manifold, carb/throttle body and exhaust. The valve job is paramount. You can diminish a great port job with a poor valve job. I think what you are looking to do is maybe a bit of 'blending'. This is if you want the heads to work with what you have now and then maybe later on you may make other changes. At Cycle-Rama, we use a special flow bench so we can actually look at the velocity of the airflow in all points of the port and with test pressures up to 65" of water and up to 1000cfm. Nothing is left to chance. By the time the heads leave our facility they are set to work exactly to YOUR application. Every head is extensively flow tested, even our CNC'd heads. So in conclusion, go for it, just remember that if you go too far, you can't go back. You can make a port flow big numbers, but if you lose velocity, you lose period. We are always excited to see someone who has ambition enough to learn(it's a never ending learning curve) before they attempt(smart). I wish you luck. Pam | ||
| Daves |
TD, I have 2 M2s on the floor for 4500.00 One is a 99 and the other is a 2000 Call me! Pammy, Are you coming for the get together in January while I'm down there? Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) 1-800-342-7539 ext 211 | ||
| Brion |
Pammy, My bike is virtually stock except for the race kit and Nology wires which in combination with the race ECU definitely makes a difference whatever anyone else wants to believe. Before I put the wires on I took the race ECU off because it ran better without it. Nevertheless; what I will probably do is just blend the ports to a smooth transition matched to the exhaust and intake. I haven't had the heads off so I don't know how smooth they will be. I have done heads in the past that had casting lines in the passages that looked like speed bumps. I will shot blast the ports and maybe change the style of valves. I am going to bore the intake out to 47-48 mm and put the 1200 exhaust pipes. I use this bike as toy on the street and my S3 when I want to cruise around. I intend on using the XB exclusive at track day which I have used both for in the past. Do you have any recommendations based on what my intentions are sofar? Thanks, Brion | ||
| Brion |
All, One more thing how much should I mill of the heads. I am using the stock pistons for now but maybe in time go to the 1050 or bore the case and go bigger. Brion | ||
| Glitch |
Brion, I'm looking forward to the dyno tests. As far as seat of the pants feel. Do you feel a difference all through the rev range, or just up top? | ||
| Brion |
Glitch, Here is a copy of what someone else who runs a different site on XB's wrote. He tried them on his XB first after I told him of the results I had on my S3. Like I said I took the race ECU off of my bike because it cost me too much low end torque. Now that I have put the Nology wires and installed the ECU back I have real good low end torque especially in the higher gears where the bike used to chug it just pulls through and right at 4500 r/min if I crack the throttle hard the front wheel is off the ground until I have to shift to second. It never did that before and that is one of those things you don't imagine; either your wheel is on the ground or it is not. Guys, Brion, (a dedicated Buell Member on this site) suggested that I try the Nology Hotwires, and WOW!!! These did make a big difference! Got 'em Fed-X on Friday and put them in today... For the Buell XB's You need to get the Nology 23" Hotwires at http://www.nology.com - Cut them down to proper size, I made mine with ZERO room....and crimp the coil side... These wires have a patented built-in capacitor that retains the charge until ionization has been achieved then it lets all hell go! I did not have time today to dyno these changes and doubt that there would be too big of a difference to be noticed but the throttle is 100% more snappy! Climbs from 2,000 to 4,000 RPM real quick without the hesitation common to these bikes... I took my plugs out and found them to be a little too hot, but it should not hurt the engine... that spark is not 300% hotter! I opened the gap to .45 vs. .40. I also indexed the plugs and I did feel a large difference in the performance. | ||
| Glitch |
Thanks. Pardon my ignorance. What is indexing the plugs? | ||
| Brion |
Corey, The guy who runs the other site that I reffered to http://groups.msn.com/xb9r marks his plugs then removes them to determine the open end is facing then shims and torques the plugs until the open end is facing the intake. Try Corey's site (he builds High Performance XB engines). There is some good info there especially on XB's. I hope this helps, if you try the Nology wires please let the rest of these guys know your results so they won't think I am just some crazy bastard with nothing better to do than sit on the computer and bullshit everybody. Brion | ||
| Glitch |
We're all crazy here!  I too like to research before I buy. That's why I asked Dyna to provide something other than just say he heard they were snake oil. Thanks for the indexing tip. | ||
| Cj_xb |
That's why I asked Dyna to provide something other than just say he heard they were snake oil. There you go being all intelligent again !! CJ  | ||
| Glitch |
I like how you think! And you taste in motorcycles! You're ok with me...  | ||
| Pammy |
Brion, again, valve job is most important! Blending is fine, probably all you need to do yourself at this point. Once you have finished blending heads and intake(to the head). You need to cc the combustion chamber. Measure, with the piston at top dead center, the distance from the top of the cylinder to the top of the piston edge. To do this you need to get spacers(pvc pipe will do)cut to proper length (you need to be able to get head bolts on there)and slide over the cylinder studs.Snug down head bolts enough to ensure the the cylinders are flush to the case. When you get these measurements, call us and we can advise you further. Pam | ||
| Brion |
Pammy, Keep in mind I have all the machinst tools you can think of; inside and outside micrometers depth mics. teloscoic gauges, dial indicators, dial calipers, etc. The way I have CCed heads in the past was to take a piece of plexiglass and cut it to fit on the surface that comes into contact with the top of the jug. I drilled a small hole in the middle of the plexiglass then used a graduated syringe to fill it up and determine the capacity. Then did the same to the other head. which ever one was smallest I would blend out in the compression pocket until they were equal. Is this similar to the method you are speaking of? Brion | ||
| Pammy |
Brion, That is fine. Daves, I would love to visit with you guys again. Maybe we can pick another spot this year. Thanks for the invite! edited by pammy on November 28, 2003 | ||
| Daves |
I just hope it's warmer this year. I can ride in the cold here. I'll keep you posted as plans come together. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Roc |
Brion - If I were in your position, apparent skill and knowledge, I would probably build an XB turbo system instead. | ||
| Brion |
Thanks for the compliment Roc, but I need to get my priorities in order. I put purchasing a supercharger for my Miata on hold to buy the 03 XB9R and I am still paying for my 2000 S3. If I don't stop spending bucks on the bike, my Miata will never get the supercharger. Good thing I am divorced, cus if I wasn't I'd be in divorce court soon enough. Actually I think there is a turbo kit out there for the Buell's in particular the tube frame models. I am more into the roadracing scene than dragracing and I am not sure that would work for my needs anyway. | ||
| Buellicious |
Since Nology makes a plug as well do you recommend it and which one is it? | ||
| Brion |
Buellicious, I haven't tried any of their plugs the only reason I tried the wires in the first place was because of the fouling of my plugs at idle on my S3. I am using the Denso Iridium plugs on my S3 and the Buell Pro Series on my XB. If you try out the wires I would try the stock plugs first. When I first tried them on my S3 I was using Harley Davidson plugs and I had some Pro-Series and the Denso plugs sitting around because the sooted up on me all the time. So I ran my S3 with the HD plugs at first, then tried the Densos since I paid about 8 bucks a piece for them and hardly got any use out of them. I did not find any noticable difference in the performance of the plugs. Just try the wires first. Go to http://groups.msn.com/xb9r and read CBJames' note on the wires so you will get an idea of what it takes to make them fit. Good luck, Brion | ||
| Buellicious |
Thanx for the info! I'm wondering why nearly everyone is giving you a hard time about this. Some are being quite childish. I've ran Jacobs wires and Denso plugs in my drag car and they kicked butt. So, I wonder again why people are closing their minds so quickly. Is it because they didn't think of the idea first. Port and Polish your heads! If you screw up , oh-well, your an adult. Keep up the posts. Thanx again Scott | ||
| Admin |
FYI, Promoting other Buell boards and non-sponsoring Buell or other commercial ventures on this 100% sponsor supported grass roots Buell enthusiasts' site is sincerely frowned upon. Why on earth would we want to help support MSN or Yahoo and erode our own base of knowledge/participation when we can instead help support some of the best most enthusiastic and proactive Buell dealers and performance specialists on the planet? Thank you for your consideration, admin | ||
| Brion |
Brion, After checking into the site you recommended I must ask that you cease to post links to it. It is clearly a for profit business. While I am sure much if not all of the advice is worthy of review, I do not want to allow competitors of the BadWeB sponsors to benefit from free advertising on BadWeB. It just isn't fair to the paying sponsors who pony up to keep the BadWeB running. If Corey is willing to help sponsor BadWeB, then BadWeB can be available for his marketing needs. Otherwise, please, no more grattis plugs for his site. Thank you for understanding. Blake Blake, You know I did not really think of it that way I just thought your site was for helping Buell enthusiasts learn more about how to better enjoy their bikes, learn to get better performance out of them, etc. I did not even realize that all of the sites that had links on your posts were sponsors. That being said I understand why I was ridiculed for complaining about Nallin Racing. I think I am begining to see the rules at your site. As for usefull information, on the thread that I started how much of that do you think was usefull. I only posted the other site to reinforce what I was saying about the Nology wires which I also posted a link to, I guess they don't sponsor your site either. I am beginning to see the light. If you post something positive about one of your sponsors good boy if otherwise bad boy. If you don't like my opinion restrict me from your site. I won't loose any sleep, hell maybe 1% of the replies to my thread had anything to do with the topic maybe you should have a talk with some of those guys instead of jumping on me when I was only trying to enlighten some people of my good experiences. Sorry that I thought that's what it was all about. Maybe you should send the members a list of sponsors it is ok to mention in their posts. Brion | ||
| Dynarider |
Ahh yes I remember now...this CBjames guy that runs that msn board is the one who was claiming to be personally involved with Erik on an XB15 project. Had some real wild & over the top shit. Well hell if he likes the nology wires thats good enough for me  | ||
| Blake |
Thanks Dyna. Brion, Why not post my first email.  You missed the point entirely. No nonsponsor advertising. Pretty simple. Thanks for understanding. |
