| Author | Message | ||
     Brion |
I installed a set of nology Hot Wires on my XB9R If you have ever changed your plugs you know what a bitch it is just to get to them. You must remove the air filter cover, air box, etc. The wires that I used are 23" with the coil side left off to cut them to the desired length. I cut them to leave zero clearance between the boot and the in line capacitor, you should go to www.nology.com to see what I am refering to if you are not familiar with the wires. I used the connectors and boots from the original wires because the wires came with 90 degree boots on the plug side and the wrong type of connector for the coil side really no big deal; however, after I installed them I realized that maybe the 90 degree spark plug side may work. I could not get the front plug wire to snap on the coil because of the close quarters you have to work in, so I removed the coil, which made it much easier, I suggest that you do this from the start it makes it so much easier all around. The bike started right up and sounded like it hits a little harder than before so I took it for a ride. The response seems much better all around. My bike is basically stock at present except for the Buell race kit and now the wires. They are kind of pricey ~ 75 bucks and it is a pain in the ass to install them, but if you try them out I think you will smile that you had. You can really feel a difference. I had previously removed the race ECU from my bike because it cost me too much low end power, but since I installed the Hot Wires I tried out the race ECU again. With this said I regained my low end plus more and at 4500 r/min crack the throttle hard and it will stand up. On this bike it has been the best performance boost I have obtained for 75 bucks by far. Keep on Buellin, Brion | ||
| Glitch |
Have you checked into BMW 1150 injectors? | ||
| Dynarider |
Everything I have read about the Nologys points them out as Snake oil. You pay big $$$ so you delude yourself into thinking they actually do something special. So long as the plugs are firing, any kinda special plug wires arent going to give you anymore power. | ||
| Glitch |
Dyna, where did you read this? Was it here some where? Do you have a link? Thanks in advance. Funny how some things that makes sense (in my head) ain't always the case. Thanks for the heads up. | ||
| M1combat |
It seems to make sense in my mind too, but I don't think I've ever found a bendable capacitor OR a capacitor that needed to be grounded... Maybe that's just so that when you turn the bike off it releases? I don't know. The concept seems to make sense though. | ||
| Fullpower |
why would one WANT capacitance in a spark plug cable? conductance-GOOD capacitance-BAD what are they thinking? | ||
| M1combat |
Well, agreed, but it's "supposed to" run a LOT more current through the plug when it does indeed fire. From what it sounds like though, you may need to advance the timing a tad to make up for the delay when the capacitor is charging. I would like to run some tests on these myself... Did anyone follow the link they provide for a third party evaluation??? First off, it's just a thread where someone took their Honda to a Dyno, and second, they only reported butt dyno gains of nothing... | ||
| Brion |
OK guys this will be my last post on this subject. I am not going to argue back and forth like I did about port and polishing last night. As for snake oil I must like the stuff because after using it on my S3 I tried some on my XB too. The capacitor stores the full charge that was released from the previous firing when the next charge comes around it instantaniously releases the full charge at once instead of a charge that persists from a coil. Therefore, you get an explosive instantanious spark instead of a weaker one that lasts longer. On my S3 I had problems with my plugs fouling since it runs a little rich at idle. Since I installed the wires it has not fouled one set yet and in particular it runs extremely smooth at highway speeds. All of this is quite noticable not something that you have to wonder if it makes a difference, or not. On my XB if you read my original post I removed the race ECU from my bike and installed the original leaving the other race kit components installed because I lost some on the low end torque. Since I have installed the hotwires on it I tried the race ECU back on and quess what I gained what I thought I should have with the race ECU from the beginning. I have no ties to Nology, Nallin or anyone else. But when I find something that works I like to share it. I work just as hard for my money as anyone else and like to see results for what I pay for. The capacitor is flexable like the wire just thicker in that area. It is definitely a tight fit on the XB because it has to be a certain length as for the S3 it was pretty easy. I spoke with a guy named Jeff at Nology before purchasing either set and he said if they did not work he would take them back. What else could you ask for. Hell, I must have spoke with him on the phone for minutes before I ordered my first set. But I am really satisfied. | ||
| Fullpower |
well NOLOGy has some very nice 8 dollar sparkplugs that should make you go EVEN FASTER. much faster than those 2 dollar spark plugs that came with your new bike. guess i will be putting around slowly with my 10R12 spark plugs, and their "sloowww wimpy spark" i will try to stay out of your way. dean | ||
| Glitch |
I'm not arguing, just curious as to what Dyna said. And was hoping he had something to back his claim. Like this. | ||
| M1combat |
Well, It's a given that a hotter spark is better as long as the fuel mixture is correct and it's not SOOO hot that you start melting stuff. If I could see some third party reviews and dyno runs I would be sold. It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that you are one person who has a biased opinion ONLY because you just spent money on them. Snake oil? Who knows. I'll tell you this though, if snake oil made my sled .01% faster and I was on a racetrack, I would buy it. I say get Nology to send a set to Aaron and let him do some Dyno runs with them. He'll add them to the KV section and we'll all know. I'd also bet that if they do offer a worth while improvement then most of us would buy them. Personally, I don't think it really matters WHAT you do to the spark, it's not going to make much difference at all. On the track though, it all adds up. Also, I too don't mean to argue as such, I think this idea has merit. I just want to see the real world application of it. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Thunder Alley or Hot XL mag did a dyno test on those wires a few years ago. They dynoed a stock bike with 10,000 miles, then changed the plug wires to Nology wires and tested a variety of sparkplug brands. There was an increase of several horsepower. Unfortunately, they didn't do a run using new regular wires and plugs so it was pretty stupid. | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't follow? What did they use as a base line to see the HP increase ? Are we to believe the plugs alone were responsible? I'm confused. Nothing new there then. Rocket  | ||
| Sportyeric |
Exactly. It was a stupid test. Replacing plugs and wires that had 10K miles on them and taking the horsepower increase to be a testimonial to the product they were plugging. | ||
| Dynarider |
Glitch..several bike magazines have done tests on these plug wires in the past..Hot Bike, Hot rod bike..etc & in every article I have read the conclusion was the same...the wires didnt do a damn thing that any new set of wires wouldnt do. So long as the plugs are firing then its all good. "More juice" or a supposedly "fatter" spark is going to get you anymore power. Same thing with all the "magic" plugs out there like the splitfire deal...they dont do shit. | ||
| Brion |
Dyna, With that logic I guess it doesn't matter how much you gap your plugs as long as you get a spark your in business then, huh, or should I say duh? Brion | ||
| Dynarider |
There are allowable tolerances on the gap. Too much & there isnt enough juice to jump the gap, too little & you get just a flicker of a spark. So long as the plugs are gapped close to specs the plug wires wont make any difference. Instead of using a 15amp circuit breaker & 14 gauge wire in your house..why not use a 20 amp breaker & 12 gauge wire..it should allow more electricity to flow & your Blender will have more power right?????????  So long as there is enough power flowing thru the lines to get the job done..any extra isnt going to give you any more. maybe if you added one of those turbolator deals in your intake & the magnetic deal on the fuel line to realign the fuel atoms you will get even more power right? Just because someone makes this crap & sells it, doesnt mean its any good. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
I don't know much about this specific subject... and there may or may not be anything to these wires... but... beyond this specific product. The highest most respected (arguably) engineering degree is Electrical Engineer. There is a reason... electricity and particularly electronics is the closest thing to magic in real life. In radio communication there is a well accepted joke that FM does not stand for Frequency Modulation... but it actually stands for Fu*king Magic. ...and unknown to many... the flow of electrons in wiring is NOT through the wire... but electrons moving on the surface of the wire... that is one reason stranded wire is used... more surface than the same gauge solid wire... tons more surface... and that is also why component are gold plated... and not solid gold. Most think it is the cost... but actually it is a waste to make it solid when plating the surface is the most efficient way to assist flow. Gold is an excellent conductor... that is why many critical connectors are gold plated. So... do not jump to conclusions... either for or against such products. The real conclusion is in the engineering science... which has been lacking in this thread. Often the high price is from these little trick to improve the "magic" of electronics. In car racing... most often horse power gains of lets say last 10 hp on a tricked out 500 - 1000 hp engine is not typically one 10 hp improvement... but more like ten 1 hp gains from little "tricks" and "magic" some might be much like what Brion is expecting from his attempt... though actual differences may only be quantified by a dyno. Don't be too quick to criticize... DON"T BE TO QUICK TO SPEND MONEY!!! and now if some one wants to rip me in half as I have seen in these post on Brions subjects... feel free to email me... and let the thread be used for and exchange of information... not to slam someone one way or the other on this subject. | ||
| Brion |
DasXB, You are totally right when you say that it is the sum of many components that give you the better grand total. That is why I mentioned that my race ECU did not perform as well as did my stock one with the rest of the race kit components, but after I tried the wires and reinstalled the race ECU it works fine; therefore, I believe that the ECU mapping was a little much for the stock ignition to get the best of. Since you seem to have electrical theory understanding go to their site and read about how the capacitance works, it is not the structure of the wires in itself. I would link you to their site but I have been warned not to do such things by admin. And I enjoy sharing good information even if I am ridiculed for it. Brion | ||
| Blake |
'97 Buell Cyclone, 1250 nicasil lined Millenium cylinders, Nallin Huricane 10:1 pistons, Carl's 580 cams, stage-II headwork by Brian Nallin, Stock CV Carb, Stock plugs and wires, 100RWHP and a torque curve reaching into 90 FT-LB levels. Sorry Brion, I don't doubt your experience, but I would suggest another source for your noticed performance gains. | ||
| Brion |
Sorry Blake, I'm a little thick today; I am not getting the point. | ||
| Dynarider |
that is one reason stranded wire is used... more surface than the same gauge solid wire... tons more surface... and that is also why component are gold plated... and not solid gold. Most think it is the cost... but actually it is a waste to make it solid when plating the surface is the most efficient way to assist flow. Gold is an excellent conductor... that is why many critical connectors are gold plated. Stranded wire is used as its more flexible & allows a certain safety factor. If you break a solid core wire you are screwed, but with a multistrand you can break several & still have plenty of juice. And yes while gold is an excellent conductor, its used for 2 other reasons. #1..Its a selling point that a lot of folks will readily pay more $$$ for #2. Corrosion resistence. In a lot of salty air conditions regular terminals can corrode because they arent sealed as tightly in a protective casing like the wires are. The gold eliminates the corrosion problem. | ||
| Dave |
"the flow of electrons in wiring is NOT through the wire... but electrons moving on the surface of the wire... " Holy shiet... so much for everything I ever learned about electron flow. Damn military perpetrating myths!  So a solid gold 10 guage conductor actually has more resistance than 10 guage stranded copper with gold plating because the electrons only flow across the surface? I'm thinkin' some of use need a refresh on electron theory. Is there an EE in the house? Dyna makes some valid points here. Listen.... DAve | ||
| Tim |
Brion, Perhaps new "stock" plug wires could have solved your problem. Did you check the resistance of the old wires and determine if they were within the specs listed in the manual. You also said you had a hard time getting the new wires snapped onto the coil. Were the old wires properly connected to the coil? In general "butt dyno" results are going to generate a large percentage of skeptics, myself included. I went to the Nology site and searched for any dyno results, but found none(hmmm?). | ||
| Tim |
sent to: sales@nology.com on 11/29/03 at 8:52PM CST "Dear Nology: I was looking for documentation on your website to substantiate your claims of improved horsepower and torque, specifically related to your spark plug wires vs. new OEM wires. I could not find any. Do you have any dyno runs showing improved performance? As an owner of 4 Buell motorcycles I would like to know what your wires can do for my bikes. Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. Sincerely, Tim Christensen" I will post their reply. | ||
| Dynarider |
Dave, I was hoping maybe court would jump in here. He is the electrician here. I have taken a few classes & have done my share of wiring both homes & at my place of employment but still have a lot to learn about it. I love electricity. Running conduit, pulling wires & making magic happen Wish it was the field I would have gone into years ago. | ||
| Brion |
Tim, My motorcycle only had 800 miles on it when I originally installed the race kit and I replaced the race ECU with the original. Brought it back to HD and made them reset the TPS on the race ECU because I thought that might be the problem. They also ran a full spectrum on the digital tech. Everything was fine, so off the race ECU came again. When I installed the Nology wires it felt more peppy and the throttle was more responsive, so I put the race ECU back and there she stays. It bothers me that no one thinks it a little expensive to send there heads out for an 1100 buck job but is so resistant to spending 75 bucks for some wires. The difference in cost isn't that substantial between this and a good set of standard wires and plugs. On my S3 it ran like a raped ape already, but would run rich and make the engine light come on at idle. Frequently I would have to remove the plugs because they were sooted up. Since the wires I don't have that problem. With the coil wire it was the front wire and I just could not get it to snap in without loosening the coil, just because of the close quarters. All of the connections were fine with no signs of any oxidation. Brion | ||
| Dynarider |
looking up info & reading up on this "electricity flows on the outside of wires". All I can come up with is..phooey. "Some kinds of atoms have electrons that are loosley attached. They can easily be made to move from one atom to another. When those electrons move among the atoms of matter, a current of electricity is created. This is what happens in a piece of wire. The electrons are passed from one atom to another, creating an electrical current from one end to the other." Absolutely nothing to be found about current flowing on the outside of wires. Sounds like a flawed theory to me. | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Dynarider... Yes... there are the two other reasons gold is used... purchaser desire... "Whoaa... it has GOLD contacts dude!!!" and yes... corrosion resistance of gold. ...and yes stranded is more flexible and even though some strands can/may break... it is not the failure like when a single solid strand breaks... stranded is more durable where flexing and VIBRATION is an issue. Maybe that is one reason why house wiring is solid... no flex of the wire unless you are in an earth quake... than that is the least of your worries!!! (and lower cost to produce than stranded) AND... I love this stuff too... I often wonder if I would have been better off continuing in electronics, than what I ended up doing... I did use my training in electronics in any case... as I aided in system design and supervised the installation of a multi-million dollar security system... and was the administrator of it for years... I even did limited installation and pulled my fair share of wires prior to that project. I got/get tons more satisfaction from those projects than what I traditionally do in my job. (check my profile for a hint) Dave... Funny you should mention the military... I went through 39 weeks of radio communication and electronics repair training courtesy of Uncle Sam... and I was an instructor of basic electronic theory at Fort Jackson SC. No... solid gold DOES NOT have more resistance than than stranded copper... and solid gold wire would be a total waste of money... as the key is surface area. Without factoring in surface area... comparing 10 gauge solid anything to 10 gauge stranded is like comparing apples and oranges. The difference in flow would be because of surface area available for free electrons to travel... not because of resistance. To compare such things for resistance... it would be solid compared to solid... or stranded compared to stranded. Compare solid wire of gold, copper and aluminum... and there will be differences in resistance... problems with resistance producing heat is the reason why aluminum wire is no longer used in house wiring... the wire would get hot during high current draws... and fires resulted. Resistance is energy converted to heat in high resistance items... look in your toaster...those glowing wires that toast your Pop Tarts because energy is converted to heat on purpose in those wires, and... they are solid... so the produced heat will not cause a failure by melting through. Heat produced by resistance is why computer CPUs require heat sinks and fans. Once super conductors are perfected at a cost a consumer can afford... overheated computers will be a thing of the past. So why are larger gauge wires used for high current draws... to move the current without producing heat issues through resistance, or when there is a long distance the flow must travel to reduce voltage drop. That is why extension cords that are long are typically larger gauge... and when you look at the package the cord is rated with a amp rating for safety, larger wire gauge for longer distances AND larger gauge wire for high amp drawing tools, etc. That is also why our houses operate on ac current... you can move ac current further with less loss than dc current, dc current has dramatic distance restriction due to voltage drop as the distance increases. The first electric light system was dc... but it was not practical for consumer distribution... as it was lossy through long transmission lines... and why we use ac current for consumer distribution... among other reasons!! Resistance = heat... resistance = voltage drops... where resistance is used to lower voltage... heat is produced. There is no "loss" of energy... it is converted to heat! | ||
| Dasxb9s |
Here is a little info on current flow: Resistance to current flow occurs at the molecular level of substances. An electric conductor consists of atoms having free electrons in their outer most shells. These free electrons ordinarily move randomly from one atom to another. However, when voltage is applied across the conductor, free electrons flow from negative to positive charges. or check out this site... http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/estatics/u8l1d.html this is an excerpt from the site: Conductors and Insulators... The behavior of an object which has been charged is dependent upon whether the object is made of a conductive or a nonconductive material. Conductors are materials which permit electrons to flow freely from atom to atom and molecule to molecule. An object made of a conducting material will permit charge to be transferred across the entire surface of the object. If charge is transferred to the object at a given location, that charge is quickly distributed across the entire surface of the object. The distribution of charge is the result of electron movement. Since conductors allow for electrons to be transported from particle to particle, a charged object will always distribute its charge until the overall repulsive forces between excess electrons is minimized. If a charged conductor is touched to another object, the conductor can even transfer its charge to that object. The transfer of charge between objects occurs more readily if the second object is made of a conducting material. Conductors allow for charge transfer through the free movement of electrons. this took some digging |
