| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
I didn't have any T27 sockets, so I borrowed one from a friend... It was made by "Great Neck" and stripped on the second bolt. I bought a decent quality one from Napa and was back in business. The chin spoiler came off after causing no problems of it's own, just the stripped T27. Why in the heck did they put the drain plug right above the damn exhaust exit? I didn't have a funnel so I used a rolled-up piece of paper stuffed into an old one gallon windshield wiper fluid bottle. I ALMOST made it under the plug quick enough  . Not too much mess, but I certainly had some cleaning to do. As far as supporting the bike on the rear tire or jacking it... I just waited for most of the oil to run out and then pushed the bike up to level with one hand while holding the makeshift funnel under the drain hole. The oil looked like it was still pretty good but did have a little bit of metal in it. The magnet on the drain plug had a good deal of metal on it, including a few downright scary pieces. The filter was a good deal more fun . I didn't have a filter wrench (well, a small enough one anyway) so I just put a rag under the filter and pushed a screwdriver through it. Worked well enough, but next time I think I'll try to punch it through somewhere other than right next to the bottom of the filter , or I'll buy a smaller filter wrench . As far as refill... Easy enough, just make sure you have a funnel that has a long flexible hose. I used one made for transmissions (No, it hadn't been used before). I followed the service manual instructions to a "T" and they seemed to work quite well. I only have one question... I have heard a lot of people talking about using different lubricants in their crank cases and tranny's... I read through the oil flow section in the service manual and it seems that the same oil flows through the engine and gearbox. How do I change that? Also... Do I want to? I would imagine that having cooled oil in the gearbox may outweigh the benefit of running 75/90 gear oil?? | ||
| Mookie |
m1, try putting an old baking sheet under the muffler next time to use as a drip pan. ive had to clean up a couple of times and i am hearing that is the way to go. i went to an auto parts store and purchased the whole torx set so that i can put them in my drill to remove the parts. I went and bought a set of allen heads for my socket set as well to save time. cheap investment that will save quite a bit of time in the long run. my other thoughts... when following the instructions to a "T", make sure you read the whole page first and not just the instructions.. a prime example of this would be for removing the front wheel | ||
| Awprior |
I wrap a piece of tin foil over the muffler and put a baking pan underneath to catch the oil. Works great for me. Next time you are messing around with the Torx screws, do yourself a favor and get allen heads. You may need to use a few washers with the center enlarged a little to get the right length, but those are much less likely to strip than the torx ones. And buy good tools. Cheap ones aren't worth it. | ||
| M1combat |
Hmm, I guess I see the point of the baking sheet, it's just that I would rather find something that could be placed above the muffler so I don't get oil on it... The torx set and allen head purchase seems like a great idea. Will do. I read the entire service manual a few days after I got the bike, and read everything I could find in the way of lubrication yesterday before I started. The only tip that I the service manual mentioned that I couldn't do was to grab the oil filter with a pair of pliers. I tried that, but my pliers weren't big enough. I didn't read the owners manual yesterday though, maybe I should have... Are there good tips in there? Thanks for the tips . | ||
| Fullpower |
M1 try a channel lock type plier on oil filter. works great. transmission oil is common to primary case, but SEPERATE from engine oil. try a folded (creased) piece of cardboard to deflect engine oil over and away from the muffler. good luck. dean | ||
| Ara |
If you are handy with an X-Acto knife or box cutter, you can cut down a 1/2 gallon plastic milk container so that the cut-open section slides in between the engine and the muffler and the oil comes out the "spout." Works wonderfully and is reusable. | ||
| Prof_stack |
Latest conventional wisdom is to use syn3 in the gearbox/tranny as well as the motor. Don't use gear oil in the XB's. Also, viscosity of 75W/90 for gear oil is more or less equivalent to 20W/50 motor oil. Ara, GREAT idea with the milk carton! Thanks. | ||
| Austinrider |
Prof_stack - Why not use gear oil in the tranny. The mobil1 75W/90 is what I use in the tranny and its like a hot knife thru butter when it comes to shifting. I still get the first gear 'clunck' but its like butter shifting other wise. Just wondering what the thought process was behind that. | ||
| Mookie |
ah beat me to it....  | ||
| M1combat |
Fullpower - I tried that... but my pliers weren't big enough . Also, you say that tranny oil is separate from engine oil but same as case oil... So the engine oil only lubricates the upper end??? I'll have to take another look at the manual. Also, I looked through the section on the transmission but didn't see ANYTHING on draining the oil from there. I do see the second drain plug though... Where is the second filler hole? On top of the tranny like the old sporty's? I'll have to look into it again and change that circuit next weekend. Prof_stack - Understood on the gear vs. motor oil viscosity ratings. | ||
| Prof_stack |
There are slicker oil heads here on the board than me. The gear oil contains friction modifiers which are good for the tranny but not really helpful to the clutch plates. Perhaps newer clutches won't have any problems with slippage. Amsoil recommends that the clutch/tranny use the same oil as the motor: their 20W/50 synthetic v-twin oil and NOT their 75W/90 gear oil. | ||
| M1combat |
Gotcha... I have heard of the slippage issue, but every one that I have talked to that has experience says it's a non-issue. Maybe I'll try it to have the wisdom as opposed to the knowledge . One would think that they would have used the engine oil in the crank case as well, and left the gearbox on it's own circuit... Maybe that would leave the tranny too hot?? I'm sure there was a good reason. | ||
| Ara |
There are no slippage issues associated with using Mobil 1 gear oil in the tranny of the tube frame Buells. I would be absolutely stunned if any issues surfaced with the XBs. Prof Stack: Another bit of tube frame wisdom is to emply a putty knife to hold the drain plug up in place so that you can screw it back into the drain hole with the fingers of the other hand. Glad to be of service! | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
See the previous discussion on use of gear oil. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/39771.html?1068667163 Gear oil is a wrong application for a combined transmission/primary reservoir. The main problem is with the friction modifier used in the gear oil that might cause slippage in the wet clutch. Also, as discussed in the previous discussion, Buell may not warranty your transmission if you use gear oil. | ||
| M1combat |
Well, if there are any warranty issues I'll not be using gear oil. Thanks everyone for the tips. | ||
| Fullpower |
M1 engine oil lubricates flywheels, heads, and goes thru oil cooler, filter, back to swingarm. the PRIMARY chaincase and transmission share a seperate quart of gearlube. my xb currently has amsoil 75w-90 synthetic. the sportster which has had a severe flogging its whole life, has had a very wide assortment of lubricants in it. cheap 15w40, 80w90, HD sportrans fluid( preferred), it doesn't really seem to care much, but it gets frequent changes. i have drained the trans at least 12 times in 6 years. never had a slippage problem, but it does have a barnett extra plate clutch kit, and a very stout spring. the transmission has stood up to the most heinous of abuse, without any problems. it has left some metal on the magnetic drain plug at every drain interval. my theory is that any oil is better than no oil, clean oil is better yet, and synthetic is better yet, but dont leave it in longer, just cause you paid more for it. have fun. dean | ||
| M1combat |
Ahh, THAT primary case and tranny... Got it. I'll swap that stuff out next weekend. Thanks. | ||
| M1combat |
Hey Mookie... You could just read the bottom of the fork where it points which way to turn the axle  . Sorry, I had to throw that in there. | ||
| Mookie |
thanks m1. I heard that as spidey was laughing at me while checking my rim for damage. for the record, with the way the bike was leaning and the room that i had to work with it in my garage.. I just did steps 1-4. i know theres no saving my ass from this point but i didnt take the time to stick my face towards the ground to see the stamp. | ||
| M1combat |
It's all good Mookie, I can't wait until we meet in person either (From the broken axle thread) . | ||
| Brucelee |
For what it is worth. Mobil one 15-50W in engine Mobil One 75-90 in trans. Awesome diff in the trans since I began using this gear oil. Thanks for the idea on the milk carton. Good luck | ||
| Reepicheep |
There are a bunch of here that run Mobil 1 gear oil, and the only thing that slips is the transmission snicking into the gear you want it in. My clutch slips a little now, but thats because it has 18k miles on it, and because I glazed my plates riding around with the adjustment totally messed up, not because it's got Mobil 1 in it. | ||
| Ara |
Gotta agree with Reep. What on earth do you think SportTrans is, anyway? | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
What on earth do you think SportTrans is, anyway? SportTrans is 20W-50 motor oil, not a gear lube. I'm not a oil specialist by any means - got my info on the gear lube directly from an Amsoil technician, who said don't use gear lube in the tranny for XB because it's got a shared reservoir (for trans/primary). | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Based on information I got from one of Reepi's post I went to Mobil 1 gear lube and it's was night and day/whole different xmsn. Thank you Reepi. On tools! My dad, 80+ years, has been wrenching on everything that Milwaukee has put out for the past ???? years -- a long time. The best advice he ever gave me was "never use, buy, own a cheap tool. Take your adjustable wrench and put it in the house where you can't get to it." Good tools, like anything of quality, can be pricey, but it's not the place to save a buck. IMHO. Greg | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
My clutch slips a little now, but thats because it has 18k miles on it, and because I glazed my plates riding around with the adjustment totally messed up, not because it's got Mobil 1 in it. Perhaps! Reepi, have you tried reverting to SportsTrans or 20W-50 motor oil (whether synthetic or not) to see if the slippage goes away? Mobile 1 gear lube has friction modifiers, which can exacerbate slippage in the clutch. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yup. It was slipping with 20w50 as well. And I was running the Mobil 1 for over 10k miles with absolutely zero problems previously. I rebuilt the tranny and had the clutch adjusted a little wrong. Rode it to work (50 miles) and it was a LOT wrong, but had to get home... so every time I stopped the bike I was basically half riding the clutch for the duration of the stoplight. Not a pretty picture. Theres also a little cracked thing up in the clutch basket somewhere, I can see it when I pull the derby cover, and I am sure that is not helping anything. I think Amsoil makes good oil at a fair price, and would use it if it were handy. But its not some sort of miracle juice, and their marketing approach and "research" does not sound at all trustworthy to me. (preparing to duck now) | ||
| Ara |
Reep: I won't be throwing anything at you. My impression of Amsoil is identical to yours. They used to advise you that you could run their oil for 100,000 miles. Can you imagine how acidic that motor oil would be after that length of time? Geeze. | ||
| Glitch |
As long as you change your oil every 2500 miles, would it really matter what brand you use, as long as it's not recycled oil? | ||
| Brucelee |
For what it is worth. I use Mobile 1 15-50W in engine and 75-90 in trans. Neither has the friction modifiers that will worry bike owners. See Sport Riders two part series on oils for reference to that. RE: the engine oil--runs cooler than HD dino and much much cleaner. Also burns less (this is my experience to date). Re: Trans oil, no contest! The shifting is now excellent vs. average with dino lube. And, the Mobil products are reasonably priced. To me, it is a no brainer. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The actual tests I saw showed that non synthetic in a motorcycle engine had lost measurable performance within the first 1500 miles. And that was in a honda 4, I bet our Buells eat it even faster. Cars did not show this rapid decline, so it does seem to be true that bikes are harder on oil then cars. Full synthetic held up for the full 3500 interval. It was starting to pick up contaminaints, but had not lost any significant ability to lubricate. | ||
| Ara |
Reep, I've read that the thing that accelerates the degradation of motor oil in the Japanese bikes is that the long chain polymers are chopped up by the transmission gears. Because of that I believe that our bikes are easier on motor oil, but just as tough on the gear lube as Japanese bikes are on their motor oil. | ||
| Glitch |
I guess I should have said that I use Mobil1 synthetic. | ||
| Easyflier |
One of the reasons that synthetic oil is so popular with the turbo crowd is its ability to withstand high temps without coking and blocking oil passages. While a v-twin doesn't get as hot as the internals of a turbo I think it gets a lot of the same benefits. | ||
| Brucelee |
I always loved this story! Company tests synthetic oil by driving car a million miles This column was published on May 23 in the Herald-Journal. Author: Kenn Peters Imagine driving your car or truck for 1 million miles. Why, it would take forever. And then you'd have to be driving around the clock. Mobil, the oil and gas company, did it when it was developing Mobil 1. It took four years to cover the miles. Bill Maxwell, an environmental engineer and head of product development for the Mobil Technology Co., in Paulsboro, N.J., said the company did high-mileage tests of Mobil 1 synthetic oil during 1989 and 1990 in two Oldsmobiles with General Motors' since discontinued Quad 4 engine. The cars were put on a treadmill and run for 200,000 miles. The oil in one car was changed every 7,500 miles and in the second car every 15,000 miles, Maxwell said. At the end of the 200,000 miles, the car's engines were torn down and found to be in perfect condition. "It was astounding. The engines looked like they were virtually new," he said. Mobil learned from that test that even people who break the rules by not changing their oil on schedule will be forgiven by the oil. But Mobil wasn't satisfied. So the company bought a BMW 325i with a 2.5-liter in-line 6-cylinder engine. The company decided to go for broke and run the BMW 1 million miles. The BMW spent four years on the treadmill, 24 hours a day, mostly at 85 miles an hour, but with varied speeds, too, down as low as 45 miles an hour to simulate everyday driving. Mobil followed BMW's recommended service schedule. Along the way it changed the fan belt and hoses and did other hardware maintenance. It religiously changed the oil. AT THE END of the road, when the engine was taken apart, Mobil's engineers discovered that the wear measurements were the same as the manufacturer's specifications. Today that synthetic oil is commonplace not only for vehicles on the road, but those on the racetrack, too. The 5W30-weight Mobil 1 is used almost exclusively by racing teams on the NASCAR circuit, and most Indy-type cars use 15W50-weight Mobil 1, Maxwell said. Military fighter planes have been using synthetic oil for a long time, he said. One of the basic elements of synthetic oil is a so-called synthetic fluid, the development of which evolved over the years until it became obvious it could provide lubricating benefits not obtainable with mineral oils, Maxwell said. ONE OF THE oil's toughest tests was in heavy equipment that does duty on the Alaskan pipeline. The oil must perform in temperatures that dip to 40 below zero, Maxwell said. Oil companies are constantly being pushed to develop new products to meet the demands of engines that run hotter, Maxwell said. "We want higher fuel efficiency and that means cars will be much more streamlined, hood areas will get smaller, and engines will have to be smaller," he said. "That will result in less air flow." What all this adds up to is hotter running engines and more demands than ever on engine oil. Incidentally, have you ever noticed how often manufacturers claim products have been used for years in Europe before they come to the United States? Well, that's the case with Mobil synthetic oil. Maxwell said it has been used in Europe for over two decades. |
