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Punkid8888
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So I recently posted in the knowledge vault that I would be switching my stock 06 XB9 ECM eprom, to a race Eprom, well I soon realized that it was not possible. So I went through and burned the fuel, timing and copied the other maps to the stock eprom. reset TPS and AFV and was on my way

Took it for ride, was great. I could feel a noticeable power difference. I did notice a slight dip in power between 3500 and 4500 while rolling through it with about 1/3 to 2/3s throttle.

Today I took it to work (37 mile one way trip) on the way home I noticed this dip in power was getting worse, way worse. it got so bad that in 3rd gear a 1/2 throttle roll in at 3000rpm, it would slowly make its way to 4000rpm, and almost get stuck there. once it got through it and above 5000 it would again accelerate right through the remaining RPM.

So when I get home I check my AFV, its at 90%. I have never seen it this low.

A little background info on my bike.
Prior to this Eprom flash, I had the stock Eprom, stock plugs, stock air filter, stock muffler, 07 air box. My AFV would always hover at 105 or 106.
Durning the Eprom flash, I also switch to a K&N and NGK DCPR9 plugs.

So I already know I need to do some tuning. But I am still new to this, so I wanted to load all my current maps into Excel for easy viewing. While doing this I was looking through the actual text file of the Race Maps. I noticed that the RPM Column Intervals don't match what I see in ECMSpy. I thought that was odd. for instance, in ECMSpy 800, 1000, 1350, 1900, 2400, 2900, 3400, 3900, 4400, 5000, 6000, 7000, 8000
and in the Map text file, 0, 800, 1000, 1200, 1700, 2300, 2900, 3400, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, 8000

This only seams to be the case for the Fuel Maps, the Timing maps seam to be fine.

So Should I start by editing the columns to match the Map text files?

Any thoughts?
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Punkid8888
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I might have just answered my own question just now.

I redid what I did last night. load up the race Eprom, save the maps, then loaded up my eprom, then load up those saved race maps, and save my modified Eprom. closed everything and reopened, and the RPM values all seam to match now

I just updated to ECMSpy 1.12 when I got home from work, I was running 1.11 before that. So maybe that had something to do with it
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Punkid8888
Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

never mind the rpm intervals are still not correct, grrr,

I manually changed the RPM intervals to match the Race Map, that way the Value in each cell will correspond to the correct RPM

(Message edited by PunKid8888 on October 10, 2008)
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Moosestang
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 04:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

did you download the race eprom from http://www.xoptiinside.com/

So do the rpm values match on the race eprom and they didn't match between your eprom and the race maps? I burned the actual eprom to my bike since I allready had a race ecm with the same firmware, so I can't really help you there, but I would try changing the values on the other maps page to these. It made a big difference in throttle response on my bike.

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Xl_cheese
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That's ok that the rpm values are not the same. The race map is different from the stock map.

Fetch the data you currently have on your EEprom and attach it to this thread. I'll take a look at it and see if I notice anything funny.
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Figitt
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I also tried the same thing on mine... loading the values from a race eprom into a stock eprom, and it just plain isnt the same and doesnt run well. Reload the stock eprom info and you will find it runs better.

Its a proven fact that the race eprom handles the fuel and timing differently in the background. Unless you have matching eproms and can load the entire race file, this just wont work.

After killing myself trying to get the stock ECU to do things like i wanted, I just broke down and purchased the race ECU... and damn what a difference. Night and day the best mod ive done to the bike.

Good luck.
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Froggy
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Not to mention its piracy if you don't have the Race ECM to start with.
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Xoptimizedrsx
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

no need to buy a race ecm. i have people every day flip theres to a race ecm. as there is a few changes outside ecmspy you do. all the info is there on the site for download to do it. as there is two ecm programs use to actually make a race ecm out of a stock ecm. as some of the data is different besides the fuel and timing.

mike
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Xl_cheese
Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

what xopti said.

Figitt. You must not have done something right. Most people forget to reset the TPS after adding the maps.
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Moosestang
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 08:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

what xopti said.

Figitt. You must not have done something right. Most people forget to reset the TPS after adding the maps.


I thought you only need to reset the tps when changing the eeprom itself.

(Message edited by moosestang on October 12, 2008)
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Xl_cheese
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

oh yeah. You're right. TPS reset when changing just the maps.
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Punkid8888
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 05:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I took it for a breif ride yesterday but not enough miles for the AFV to start changing, or for me to really see how it feels now. Once I get some more miles on it I will see how the bike feels and let you guys know.
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Figitt
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 05:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I agree you can copy the WHOLE ecm eprom data and make it work... given the proper set of matching circumstances, but you CAN NOT copy just the fuel and timing maps and expect it to work.... Back to the original post, this is what he did.
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Figitt
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

IT was one of my other posts how people on this site dont offer help or suggestions or detailed instructions on how to do this or anything on the bike.... but offer plenty of "you didnt do it right" or "search harder" comments. Come on fellas, is there or isnt there a definate fix for the lean midrange/low end and crappy running engine in this bike that anyone can do and be shared with others..? IS there ANY ecmspy detailed help or instructions other than the very high level/brief ones on the ecmspy site.? Can someone please offer this info without trying to make a buck from it too..?

Yea thats what i thought.
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Xl_cheese
Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 09:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

, but you CAN NOT copy just the fuel and timing maps and expect it to work.... Back to the original post, this is what he did.

Yes you can.
There have been many posts on how to do this. I think folks get tired of repeating the same thing every few weeks.

(Message edited by xl_cheese on October 12, 2008)
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Typeone
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 09:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

+1 to Xl_cheese comment. ive been running all kinds of combos from race fuel with stock timing to race fuel and timing and variations in between. this is all with my stock ECM. (yes, i bought my own, physical race ECM) plugging in race fuel and timing maps alone to the stock ECM does work.

Figitt, the info is out there. sucks to hear i know, but you have to search and read more. ive been reading for over a year. if you aren't finding the info as easily here, try searching over at Buelletinboard.com

at this point, there is WAY too much info out there to post and repost again now that ECMSpy has been more popular. its complex stuff, gotta be patient and thorough.
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Figitt
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

OK... one more time, I didnt challenge anyone to anything... I said, you can NOT just swap over some maps and expect it to work better than the stock ecu. That was the intent of the original post. Do you guys follow the thread..? Swapping over just the fuel and timming maps from a race ECU to a stock ECU will not provide better performance. Its just not that easy.
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Typeone
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

OK... can you explain why it's not that easy? (serious question, not trying to be a d*ck)
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Figitt
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Moving just maps (fuel and timming) from a race ECU to an stock ECU cause the engine to run worse than it did with the stock ecu info. It pings and lurches, and is flat on top, etc... I read this time and again here on this site, that you cant do it and expect results. Several here have tried it, several have said there are other background changes that must follow the maps in order for it to work like a race ECU. I did it anyway, and confirmed what i had read.... any change in performance was not detectable and worse in certain situations. (YES i did it correctly) After switching to a genuine Race ECU, it made it very clear that this map swap was just as mentioned by several others, not as easy as it sounds.
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Punkid8888
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have been doing lots of research, and read plenty of threads, but like you said their is a ton of info out there, and not all of it is good. I started reading into the ECMSpy stuff when it first started popping up in the forum. I used it on my bike for TPS resets and basic information gathering, never any tuning as I had no mods that required it.

What I wanted to do was use the Race Eprom as a good starting point and go from there. but as you might have read by now, on the 06 bikes you cannot swap the eprom from stock to race with just the ecmspy software.

I was simply wondering if it was like one or two changes in the actual eprom text file, or if its far more complicated then that. The other thing I was hopping for was maybe someone in the same boat as me, and had a good solution.

But if neither is readily available that is fine, I will just have to start reading deeper and start experimenting more. I was planning on doing that anyways, but the better starting point I have the less strain I will have to put on my brain.

I mean I hate seeing the same threads over and over too, but until there is an official write up that is confirmed by multiple people, not just one person, the forum threads are all pretty much a bunch of opinions that you need to decipher through to create your own opinion, which you can then post and add to chaos.
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Typeone
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

thanks for the follow-up, Figitt. guess i'm lucky because none of that happened to my bike when i made simple swaps (mostly last season). guess its the old YEMV bit.. .
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Typeone
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I mean I hate seeing the same threads over and over too, but until there is an official write up that is confirmed by multiple people, not just one person, the forum threads are all pretty much a bunch of opinions that you need to decipher through to create your own opinion

this is very important. because development and exploration has matured so much over a short time, you need to keep the dates of posts in mind. the tuning guide, for example, is very outdated. this is def a bummer for the newcomer. but the core info in the guide is excellent and certainly worth reading time and time again. just need to patch in new learning.

i think some of the other confusion people have is that they want to just 'burn' EEPROM files they find on the net. this is not a good approach. (not directed to anyone in particular, i just read it A LOT on the forums.)

Punkid8888, wish i could help but all i can suggest, which helped me, was to take baby steps. burning or plugging in too many changes at once will drive you mad. attempting to 'tune' with the NB 02 will most likely drive you mad too. i only log to study.

(Message edited by typeone on October 13, 2008)
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Id073897
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Moving just maps (fuel and timming) from a race ECU to an stock ECU cause the engine to run worse than it did with the stock ecu info.

How amazing. As the different maps are the only functional differences between stock and P&A ECMs. All other changes (decel region, timing retard config, AMC config) are non-functional anyway.

Regards,
Gunter
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Surveyor
Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I burned all the race eeprom data from Mike's site to my stock ecm and it works great. I have a full race system with K+N filter and open airbox. Subsequently I was told that you should only burn the maps.....too late!....but everything works really well, I added 500rpm to my rev limiter limit and she revs really well. All settings are stable. Last weekend I was at Oulton park and it revved out in top gear, so much so that I was looking for another gear! Unfortunately I still got blown away by the Jap multis (Oulton is fast) BTW I failed the noise test @ 108db (102db limit) so I had to fit baffles and everything still ran well.
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Jespo_m2
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hi, Restarting an old thread here. Collected a bunch of data/lessons that may be useful to new tuners.

Well.. In my attempt to 'tune' my 06 XB12X, I bricked my Buell when trying to load 06 race eprom.

After loading the the race eprom, the TPS is stuck at 100%. I tried restoring my eprom and TPS still states 100%. Fan wont shut off. I didnt dare try to start it. Had to disconnect the battery cable to get the fan to stop running.


Finally, I was able to restore my eprom data.

Here is what I HAD to do to restore the eprom and get the bike running again:
- disconnect battery and wait 10+ minutes
- reconnect battery
- connect ecmspy
- reload my backed up eprom data
- reset TPS
- reset AFV to 100%
- Once completed, the bike ran great.

Things I've learned:
- According experience and forum on badweb, you CANNOT use eprom files from another ECM. The memory cells are stored in different locations per unit. I wish this was stated in the ECMSPY docs. o well... lesson learned.

This was a good learning experience for me and my bike is now running they it was.
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Froggy
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thats what happens when you pirate! RRRRRRg!

: )
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Jespo_m2
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

More info on adding race fuel maps to stock ECM.

Found it here:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/400124.html?1223040459

The guys did the same exact thing I did and got the same bad results.

I'm going to re-vamp his instructions on how to load race fuel maps (not eprom) on to a stock ECM. I have not tried this yet but it makes sense.

I plan to try loading race fuel maps this weekend. In addition, I'm adding 07 air lid with K&N and wiring my exhaust valve open.

How to load race fuel maps (not eprom) to stock ECM.
- Launch ECMSPY while NOT connected to your bike.
- Click on EPROM tab and load in the race eprom data that is meant for your bike.
- Click on MAPS tab, save maps to computer and call it RACEMAPS (this is only the fuel maps and timing maps not the entire ecm)
- Shut down ECMSPY (ensures no eprom data hanging around in ECMSPY for next task.)

- Start ECMSPY and connect ECMSPY to your bike
- Load /Fetch YOUR BIKES ECM eprom data
- Click on MAPS tab, LOAD the fuels maps file you saved RACEMAPS (not the Eprom)
- Burn the (RACEMAPS) fuel maps
- Reset TPS
- Reset AFV

Let me know if you see any issues with these steps.
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Jespo_m2
Posted on Thursday, March 19, 2009 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Froggy... you gotta stop with this pirate stuff!!! We get your point... but we are just trying to learn about our bikes. Please... enough already...
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