| Author | Message | ||
     Cpmorey |
I'm thinking about upgrading the exhaust on my 9S when I go for the 1,000 mile service. I'm wondering which system I should choose. As far as I can tell, there are at least 7 options for the XB's... 1 Buell Race Kit 2 Nalin 3 D&D 4 Jardine 5 Wileyco 6 Latus 7 Drummer I want to create the 1 definitive thread on this subject... could be a good thread to archive. Please chime in if you have direct experience w/ any of these systems... what are the pros/cons, how do they sound relative to each other, how do they perform (w/ Dyno charts), which work standalone vs. requiring a new ECM, what level of effort is required for install, who has the best prices, etc. Thanks - CM | ||
| Brucelee |
I have the Buell race kit on my XB9S. For me, it is just fine. Nice sound, smoother idle, faster middle to upper range and it looks better than stock. 3 lbs lighter too! Also, gas mileage remains excellent. Dealer stands behind factory warranty, since they installed it. Bottom line is that I am very pleased overall. BTW-2200 miles on bike and it remains defect free. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
we obviously know what I think. I had the race kit and it made us develope the drummer. I am of the opion tho that you need the race ecm for all of them. period !! except the force/nalin because of the power commander. the stock ecm just ain't made for free flowing pipes. ps get the drummer you'll be a happy camper  like I said I am obviously biased. oh yeah on price I believe we might be the least expensive. I could be wrong but I think we are. edited by buckinfubba on November 15, 2003 | ||
| Daves |
Well I sell the Force,the Wileyco,the Buell race kit, the Drummer,The D+D and could get a Jardine but haven't had any yet. I have had a Latus on my bike. It all boils down to what you want. Some choices are better than others. I'm going to run the Force pipe, I like LOUD and I want all the peak power I can get for the track. Does that make it the BEST pipe for everyone? No. I like what Brian has done with the Drummer. I like the sound of the D+D,just not quite loud enough for what I want. I like the looks of the Wileyco The Jardine looks good too. Which one is BEST? I don't know, it depends on how you define best. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Skully |
Clarence, I have the D&D on my XB9S along with air box mods and a K&N filter. I am very pleased with the combination. Check my thread "From Cruiser to Sport Bike - An XB9S Rider's Log by Keith Thrash..." in the "Tale Section". I think the Drummer looks to be a very competitive muffler especially when price is factored in. Brian (Buckinfubba) is taking one bike, making baseline runs dyno runs on it, then running the D&D and Drummer head to head. In the end, you have to be honest with yourself. Do you want a bike with power in the mid-range (probably best for street) or power in the upper RPM range (probably best for racing)? Then, get dyno charts for all of the exhaust systems and compare, making sure that you understand how the bike was set up (race ECM? stock air filter/air box?, etc). Let the facts guide you to the set up that best suits your riding style. I'll help any way I can. Keith | ||
| Cpmorey |
I want the best set-up for the street, and I like the idea of taking the bike to the dealer for the install/warranty work. I'd go w/ the race kit, but it seems to lose some torque in the early to mid range which worries me. | ||
| Bads1 |
Then if your worried about warranty work and such you might want to check with your dealer and tell them what you would like to do and go from there.If it was to be my choice and judging by the posted dyno charts I would have to go with the drummer.Don't get me wrong there all descent pipes but Bubba and company have done well with there system. | ||
| Brucelee |
The loss in low range may be more theoretical than real. By that I mean that I really cant tell the diff in actual riding but I know the factory charts say there is a small loss. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
CP what BadS1 said check with your dealer. Most times if they install it they will still honor the warranty. with most of the pipes if not all. but it does depend on the dealer | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Well, I have an XB9R. I've had the stock setup, the buell race kit( which I liked).I have heard the D&D And Force pipes. Im lucky if I can go to a trackday once a year.But I do burn the mountian rds.all around the BRPwy.And when I have to cruise past lawenforcement,I don't want to be noticed.I bought the Drummer and I couldn't behappier than a pig in a mudhole........Later Charlie | ||
| Paroyboy |
I had the race kit on my 9R. I loved the sound and the power in the higher revs was nice but I never got rid of the "stumble" in the 2000-3000 rpm range. Wasnt a huge deal but it was annoying. After several TPS resets, it was almost ok | ||
| Xb9 |
I have the Latus. Tried it with both the stock ECM and the race ECM, both types of ECM's (once learned) ran noticably rich at the 2 - 4K range. Since I was not happy with the richness in this range, I installed a PCIII Powercomander with the High performance O2 sensor to be able to adjust things, and using the button adjustments, dialed it in. Nallins recommended I use the PCIII with the stock ECM, which I agree with. Running 3 steps lean on the low, 2 steps rich on the mid and 3 steps rich on the high with the stock ECM. All I can say is this setup rocks. What I needed to do is reshape the fuel curve, which the power commander allowed me to do. It pulls strong from 2.5K, seat of the pants says the torque dip is gone. One of these days I will get it on a dyno. Everything else is on the engine is stock, except the K&N air filter. The Latus really sounds awesome too! | ||
| Noface |
I've had the Buell Race Kit (exhaust, ECM, and filter) and the D&D with ECM, and filter. I can't tell much difference anywhere in the powerband except from about 4500 on up, the D&D feels a tad stronger. The D&D is louder and has a much more profound "burble" or "hollow" sound (can't find a good word to describe it) at idle, and it flat out WAILS when you whack the throttle. I love the sound of the Nallin/Force pipe, but I just can't bring myself to part with that much cash... Jody | ||
| Richieg150 |
I dont have a XB,I have a tube framer.If I had a XB,I would get the Drummer,it sounds deep,and the dyno sheets prove it a great all around pipe.Its not tinny sounding , breaking apart while you are riding it wont be a issue( the Force pipe comes to mind).The cost is also a factor!Just my 2 cents! | ||
| Buellish2 |
I SHOULD PROBABLY LEAVE THIS ONE ALONE!!!!!!  | ||
| Spike |
Not to hijack the thread- but is anyone satisfied with the ECM from the race kit for the 12? My 12 runs great with the stock ECM but with the race ECM it's harder to start, struggles to idle, and spits and sputters when cold. Frankly, the bike ran better with the race pipe and stock ECM than it did with the complete race kit. I'd like to try a different pipe for my 12 . . . just as soon as someone develops a decent method of fuel control. Mike Luddy, Jr. '04 XB12R (back to stock after falling for the race kit) | ||
| Bads1 |
Spike try the drummer. | ||
| Spike |
Bads1, I'd like to try the drummer, I just don't want to deal with the shoddy Race ECM. Mike | ||
| Buckinfubba |
spike It is probably just that the TPS is not getting set just right. It seems to be more senative on the 12's than the 9's . I don't know why it just is what I have found. Some of the brand new 12's that came in would barely I del and it was just that the tps was a lil off. call me at tilleys today and I' will tell ya something to relay to your tech about it. Brain Tilley hd/buell buckinfubba@hotmail.com | ||
| Steelshoe |
I'm quite satisfied with the stock setup, starts in all temps with a slight touch of the button, there are few bikes on the market that start like a cage, most have an enrichener. I'd hate to spoil it. The power on my 9S is more than I can use but I do use it and it is sufficiant for me. However I'd like to make some noise to drown out some mechanical sounds and to annoy the general public including posers. I'd like to just change the pipe without messing up all the things I've mentioned. Seems like the D&D would accomplish this, according to them. Also by changing only the pipe, that would be the only part that would not be warrentied anymore, your not altering rpm's or anything to affect eng. warrenty. Bubba, Will the drummer work alone? Do you have to do reset just for pipe change? How much is drummer and how does the exchange work, is it I pay you and you send, then I return my pipe to you? | ||
| Buckinfubba |
steelshoe I've said this before.and maybe I am wrong. I have a hard time beliveing that the stock ecm can work and adjust for any pipe change. The aftermarket pipe are all free flowing and therefore lean out the fuel mixture. and your wrong in the fact that just changing the pipe would only void that part of the warranty. Because it affects the engine it would effect the warranty. But this really comes down to the dealer you have. There really is no problem with the race ecm's they just get the TPS set wrong. I have had my race ecm on for over 10k miles without any problems. Yes the drummer works without switching the ecm as much as any of the other ones out there. Which I don't suggest doing. Now I haven't tested to see how it works if you keep the stock filter in. Maybe it does work because that filter does not flow as much. So maybe the fuel mixture would be ok. But I can't say for sure because I ahve not tested it. I am just be honest with you. The way it works with the drummer is this . You send the pipe with the money and then we box one up and send it back to you. the race ecm does not alter the rpm's at all BTW | ||
| Leeaw |
Brian, how would you diagnose a "problem" with running just your pipe and the stock ECM and filter? That is what I am still running whilest waiting for the parts. I feel no problems throughout the rpm's on mine. Just slight popping here and there. | ||
| Easyflier |
Bubba, I wonder if the TPS reset problem that some are having with the XB12 is the result of being set with the scanalyzer instead of the computer. Seems that was the topic of at least one discussion last August and the consensus was that a scanalyzer was OK for the XB9 but no longer adequate for the XB12 (don't know what the difference is). Might have even been addressed by our guide on the factory tour, can't remember exactly. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I am not sure by what you mean by "problem" I guess what I mean is this. It will work with the stock ecm to a point. But your not getting the best performance that you could. is the popping on decel or on accel. I do know that with the stock ecm on the drummer there is a real ugly dip of power down low and carried on for a lil until about 4k. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I can't remember if they discussed that or not. But yes it does make a difference. I have tried doing the 12's with the scanalizer(it is much more convient to use) and it just doesn't work. I am no computer savay guy, I just know it don't work right. | ||
| Leeaw |
Popping on decel. I notice no dip like you mention but it feels slightly flat going hard from some 4k or so until 5k. It seems to pull harder from 3k than the stock pipe. I just don't want to be lean. | ||
| Donald |
The jardine works great on my XB. I have seem as low as $220. 6 1/2 hp gain, The fit and finish is awesome. Sounds great when you hit the thottle. Yet its quiet my cruising at 70 mph. | ||
| Steelshoe |
Donald, Did you add the filter and ecm? If not, did you reset tps? Is it popping on decel? If it is, its a little lean as in leeaws post. I'm interested in good looks, good sound, running and starting as good as stock, econo price. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
lee It will pop alil on decel. especially a hard decel. when you really let off the throttle it goes way lean for a second so yes it pops. Thats how the inj system works. I found a cure to this in the fact that I rarely completely close it all the way . Just alil open throttle will usually stop the popping. that flat spot your feeling from 4 to 5k is partly the stock ecm not working well with the pipe. If you think it pulls good now at 3k wait til you get the race ecm on. | ||
| Donald |
Steelshoe, I install the filter and ecm. I had the tps reset. Yes it is popping on decel. | ||
| Stot |
Does the scanalyser detect if the ECM is a Race one or Standard one? I was told my bike had the race kit fitted ECU, Air Filter, Pipe, when I bought it. Had the pipe and K&N so assumed ECM was race too but when I looked it didnt have RACE USE ONLY on it just a couple of barcode stickers. I was just wondering if my local can plug the scanalyser in while they are changing my tyres and tell me if I got a Race or STD ECM. Cya Stot | ||
| Buckinfubba |
stot If it was one of the early race ecm's it didn't have it stamped on it. But those were the very early ones. what is the part # on your ecm. | ||
| Stot |
My bike is an Aug 02 model so its possible but IIRC the P/N was very similar to the standard European one. I was at the dealers today, they replaced a snapped belt for me and Ive booked in for new tyres next week so I wan going to aske them to check it out for me without having to take the fairings off and all, if it was possible that is. Cya Stot | ||
| Fullpower |
howdja break the belt? showin off for the neighbor kids, or just puttin to work? original belt? later, dean | ||
| Gearloose |
B/fubba,does the race ecm do away with the soft rev limiter on the 12? Wondered when you said that it does not alter rpm capabilities. | ||
| Steelshoe |
This thread is stirring up a lot of good questions and answers! | ||
| Stot |
Dean, Belt just went when I changed into second gear on my way to work. 3000 miles, original belt, never been touched since the factory put it there, all guards in place and replaced under warantee. They figure a stone got in there somewhere. Cya Stot |
