| Author |
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Swordsman
| | Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 03:48 pm: | 
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No, all the fuel maps have that dip. If you look at them with the 3D mode, you'll have two peaks with a valley in the middle. That's normal.
If I'm not mistaken, the bike's keyswitch needs to be ON for all ECMSpy stuff. The toggling is basically rebooting the system to accept the new data, like installing a new program on your PC and rebooting Windows to finish. I've never turned the switch off while trying to mess with the ECM. The keyswitch icon in ECMSpy allows you to grab realtime data by connecting to the ECM, and certain functions require it to disconnect first, but I've noticed the latest versionof ECMSpy does this automatically (previous versions gave an error message).
~SM |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 07:08 am: |
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on the stutter. its not a idle or fuel table issue its a acceleration % issue.
mike
(Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on October 10, 2008) |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 10:41 am: |
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on the stutter. its not a idle or fuel table issue its a acceleration % issue. the other maps page.
right side of ecmspy, middle of the page. set the 800 rpm's % to start at 170 then set the 1200 rpm to 1100 rpm then its % to 130 and burn. you will need to adjust as every pipe bike combo is slightly different. depending on your pipe. the no back pressure pipes work best with a very low % on these tables.
Mike, You had me until you got to "1200rpm to 1100rpm then it's % to 130"
That table on the other maps page you speak of has 800-1200-1600-etc. My 800rpm % is 200, so I set that to 170, right? Now which ones do I change to 130? |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 12:21 pm: |
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This may help.
Now you have full set to 160(mines is currently 228), full accell revs you have set to 5? Did you change the TP value in the region box?
Thanks.
I tried burning a 0 for the open loop enrichment delay and then fetching the maps again to see if it changed. It didn't change. Am I missing something? It said it was successful. |
Typeone
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 12:29 pm: |
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to burn a new value, e.g. 0 for Open Loop Erich delay, highlight the cell you want to edit by clicking on it, enter the new value into the box in the lower left, click the '=' button, then click 'Burn'. |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 01:22 pm: |
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Well I did not know I had to hit =. I put in 170 like you see and hit burn. |
Wantxbr
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 05:22 pm: |
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Moosestang Wrote:
That table on the other maps page you speak of has 800-1200-1600-etc. My 800rpm % is 200, so I set that to 170, right? Now which ones do I change to 130?
Xopti is saying change the 1200 RPM in the CORRECTION BOX to 1100 RPM, so 1200 rpm is now 1100 rpm. Then change the % to 130, Right now your CORRECTION % reads 150, Change the 150 to 130%. |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 05:33 pm: |
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Thanks for the clarification! I didn't realize I could change the rpm value. Everything makes sense now.
While we are on the subject of tuning and ecmspy. Would it be wise to lower the cold start enrichment by a few %? My bike smells strong of gas when I first start it. It's at 160% now as a max. I was going to try 150 or even 140. Is 160 really necessary? It was also showing 161% cold start enrichment this morning, but the engine temp was showing at least 10 deg C. That doesn't coincide with my map.
(Message edited by moosestang on October 05, 2008)
(Message edited by moosestang on October 05, 2008) |
Wantxbr
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 07:05 pm: |
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Try this first. Change your Default Open Loop Corr to 110 instead of 105. That should shut off open loop enrichment sooner.
(Message edited by wantxbr on October 05, 2008) |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 07:51 pm: |
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what did you guys notice on this change?
mike
(Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on October 10, 2008) |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 08:38 pm: |
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Mike, I will post here my results. I changed everything except the things you mentioned in your last post. I gave up on the square idle mod for now, but I did set the timing to 7 front and 5 rear. I think I actually reset my tps correctly this time. My voltage won't go below .93 though and I read somewhere it's supposed to be .84, but I verified that the throttle plate is completely closed.
I didn't have time to start the bike, so i'll try it tomorrow or Tuesday.
(Message edited by moosestang on October 05, 2008) |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 11:16 am: |
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Well I rode the bike today. It was hard to start at first, but that's probably because I cleaned out the throttle body with some MAF cleaner and didn't start it afterwards.
The throttle response is insane now, very snappy! It also doesn't feel like it's falling apart when pulling in the clutch and letting the revs drop down to idle. Before making the changes it felt very rough going from 3k-1k. My idle still isn't very smooth, but I haven't tried messing with the idle blocks again.
I must admit that i changed some of the fuel map at full throttle from 2900-6000. I added 5 to both cylinders in every block. I think that was a bit to much in spots because it coughed a little around 4k. I'll wait until I changed to the NGK plugs before making any more fuel map changes.
Mike, I tried downloading the 07 xb9 race eprom from your website. I wanted to look at the fuel maps, but I'm not sure how to save it as a .TXT file. ecmspy can't see it the way it is now. |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 07:03 am: |
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glad you like the tricks on the ecm. as it makes the bike ride much better. actually revs like it suppose to. no delay you twist it goes. the txt file saVE IT TO THE DESKTOP. OPEN ECMSPY. LOAD MAPS FROM THE EPROM LOAD MAPS.
load it from the desktop. then it works. if you copy that newer ecm file to your bike. make sure you do the other maps changes i posted. the reset the tps . also set the afv to the number you was getting on the old map. then ride the bike. let the afv relearn again. then test it out.
mike |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 02:46 pm: |
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Here's a picture of the other maps page with the changes that Mike suggested. This is for an xb9. I thought i'd post it to make it easier on someone else that wants to eliminate the stutter off idle. The throttle response after making these few changes is night and day. I also changed the 6 lower left blocks in the timing tables to 7 front and 5 rear like was suggested. to change the values on the other maps page, click on the box, then type in the new value in the box on the lower left of the picture. Click the = sign and then click burn. You'll need to burn the eeprom back to the bike after finishing.
 |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 09:47 pm: |
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yep i am bold and stuck in my ways but one thing is for sure. i do know my buell ecms.
i do go back and edit my post from time to time. as we cant have everyone attempting to be a tuner when they barely can mix fuel for a weed whacker. but what i did post was 100% accurate info as moostang said it works
i do have all the 08 bikes data and the 1125r datas. but, i cant get my new ecm program to talk correctly yet. its a totally new program only i have. made it myself. cc++ data code. when i get it to work i'll code it and pass it along. I suck at writing the programs. i may need to take a few classes to get it to work.
these tricks are only a taste of what its actually capable of. as ecmspy will load them all but not get you everything in the tabs. 30% of the core stuff is all in code text. you either know it or dont. and none of it is doable in directlink. that system is out dated over priced and useless to a point. you cant scale the afr or closed loop points. so why bother. use ecmspy and you get all these.
have fun guys happy learning i may post more tricks in the future. time will tell.
i'm out.
mike
(Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on October 10, 2008) |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 12:31 pm: |
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Good luck with your program Mike! I would help, but my C++ skill is about as good as my wrenching! Badweb is an excellent resource, I am sure you can find someone here that can help. |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 04:29 pm: |
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man i tell you what this ecm stuff is not so hard but writing the programs to do it man what a nightmare.
i really sucks when you have the data but cant get it to apply. arghhhhhh
come on baby talk. then i can get the 1125r to work too.
i'm sure there is a crowd who wants the 1125 tuner. if i ever get it working its going to be posted.
mike |
Turk
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 12:15 pm: |
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yep i am bold and stuck in my ways but one thing is for sure. i do know my buell ecms.
Actually after reading many of your posts, there's a lot that you have wrong, including your method of tuning utilizing the AFV and your entire concept of what open loop learning is and how it works.
Once again folks, buyer beware, even if (perhaps especially if) it's free... |
Xl_cheese
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 01:50 pm: |
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}Actually after reading many of your posts, there's a lot that you have wrong, including your method of tuning utilizing the AFV and your entire concept of what open loop learning is and how it works.
Would you please elaborate? I'd really like to know what you know about the ecm.
Thanks. |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 08:25 pm: |
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funny thing is he does not see what i see as ecmspy is not the only tool i have.
i have every bite of ecm data for every ecm us and Europe.
and yes afv is just a guide not the main factor. i dont tune from that. if you read you would have seen that.
a proper tune requires a 4 gas not just a wideband.
i can do that . how about you. i have spent many hours data logging reading the scale doing adjustments to learn what they do and why. not just to seek the power or tune. it was done as reasearch. to understand the functions and learn what they do and why they do it.
the ecm is very smart on its own and has to be reconfigured to work properly with fuel map and timing adjustments. if we didnt have a epa and regulations buell would have had the ecm made differently. but eric has rules he has to follow to be able to sell the bikes.
i had to figure around that to be able to tune track bikes and help street bike preform better while be reliable and run cooler,smoother, and with less vibration.
i have done it and can prove it.
what have you done. i did it with out doing ant engine work at all.
the afv well it can be scaled to what ever you want in other codes behind the sceen.
so please elaborate on what is wrong. with my tuning ways as i have a lot of race guys using my stuff.
the open loop learn is off on the bikes. btw.
the fuel multiplier is a big ticket scale. as well as dwell. i can go on. but these will only confuse the public. plus they are not ecmspy movable in tabs. they are hard coded and changed in the eprom txt directly.
again turk. beware. free is free and i am 99.92 % accurate. as no one is perfect.
if your so smart why dont you show your stuff. and get everything in the open so its done correctly the turk way.
how about writing a book or tuning guide for everyone. beside bash on people.
thanks to you many people leave fourms and dont buy into sponsoring.
sorry blake but this is the guy that i dont like.
he bashes but never helps anyone i see on here. seems he follows all y post.
see you on my coat tails.
if my systems dont work. why do big race teams and dealers call me to fix the bikes.
humm i'm write. my stuff works period. you probable own a shop a trashy shop. and scam people for fake dyno jobs.
data times on the track that improve the lap time over a dyno tune any day. is the best. as its real data live not simulated.
again bugg off if your not helping teach anything besides you say everyone is wrong besides turk. who is turk. what does turk know. search the internet. seems i do know my way around the ecm. guess gunter and ralf are wrong too they helped teach me some of what i know and explained a f4ew things in more detail.
and look up cobb engineering and cobb tuning for the knowledge base.
mike cobb
(Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on October 13, 2008)
(Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on October 13, 2008) |
Turk
| | Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 11:00 am: |
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You're right, I have been following your posts around and it's only because of your arrogant statements like "I know the ecm backwards and forwards" and other such comments. If it weren't for those comments, I'd applaud your efforts but that's not how you operate.
As for what I know, I have been taught by those whose knowledge on that topic can't be disputed and out of respect for them, I won't divulge any of that knowledge on an internet forum. |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 07:49 pm: |
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i see.
well since you cant and wont help.
i know a lot of shops really dislike me for a few reasons. as i get into there pockets deep sometimes.i respect that. everyone has a right to opinions.
can you not bast me on what i have accomplished. coming from self taught to going through a motorcycle school just to have a piece of paper's a deg covering v-twins and imports just to do what i do to help other . well that's a lot i have put out and paid out to learn and do. you wont find many people willing to go to school just to help out a group with out return. yes i have a deg in cycles and i graduated with a 4.0. as i do honestly have much more knowledge than can be explained here. the ecm is not all i do. but bikes well its a hobby i picked up to pass time. as well as going to the track and tune local guys bikes for free. that takes all day food, entry fees, camping, over night. family time i give up just to help someone have a little extra edge.
you are correct there are areas new to me. i wish i could get the shift points to work for the shift lights in the ecm as a direct feed output. they are there but coded off in ib310 and gb231 ecm.
i cant expect every one to get a 4 gas gauge or run out and buy the lc1 unit the bikes need to get a good o2 wide band feed. so i deal with the basics and help them use what they have. as 90% of the owners don't know a thing and if explained properly. well they look like deer in headlights. totally lost.
i will state the parts i know in my areas i do know 100% ON WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND WHY.
i wish i could explain more on the data's but not being able to do them in ecmspy. well it would be useless then aggravate those who understand with us. then not have access to them.
i cant send out my master ecm program i have sorry.
next
i have found a way around the 08 and 09 issue of programming already and i am waiting on a couple ecms to arrive to be sure it works. if it works. then they will have to buy a ecm i have made as a stand alone unit for there bike and the current ecmspy will tune them.
cross our fingers.
its all we have for now
last thing
i have all the 1125r data now and the cr data from that bike.
i'm still working on the ddfi3 tuner package to tune the stock ecms for the 1125
i'm getting close on that one. but thats a system thats got more areas than you need to know and it has me baffled me a bit. i have the gist of it but there is stuff there i dont have a clue what it is or is doing. i can see it but thats it.
hopefully the data i'm lost on is old left over unneeded data. dummy files. like a few spots left in the plain xb ecms left from data that didnt ever full work. so the files are there they are just dead links.
mike}
(Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on October 20, 2008) |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 08:04 pm: |
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As for what I know, I have been taught by those whose knowledge on that topic can't be disputed and out of respect for them, I won't divulge any of that knowledge on an internet forum.
Give us a break! If you can't divulge any of your precious info, then GTFO.
As for the square idle, I still don't get it. I have the front two cells at 70 and the rear at 66 on an xb9 and still can't get it to idle at 1000-1050. That's with a tps of 5.8%. How much fuel do I need to add to the idle cells? I have my tps starting at 15, in 8 bit. Next i'm going to try 70 front 70 rear, shouldn't they both have the same fuel requirements at idle?
Anyway, the bike idles pretty good even at 900-950 and it idles good at 1050 if I increase the tps% into the 6% range, but then i'm getting out of the first two cells. |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 08:22 pm: |
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you want a 950 to 975 idle any way.
whats the ego at when fully warm at idle?
i run a tad rich at full warm the ego is at 95/98 steady. my tps is at 14 8-bit and i idle at 975 to 990 always.
a 1050 is too high as on the street its different than the track the idle will lag from 2000 down if the tps is to high even if the fuel is perfect.
whats your idle timing set at? and do you have the timing set to self adjust at idle?
if set to self adjust it scales from the timing in the map as well as a different scale you cant see in ecmspy.
mike |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 08:51 pm: |
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I changed the timing back to zero in all 6 blocks.
Timing set to self adjust at idle? Do you mean closed loop idle adjust enabled? I still have that set to on.
I haven't check the ego since my last adjustment, I would guess 90% the way it's set now. |
Sharkytattoo
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 10:37 pm: |
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Does the instructions for this ECMSpy ever say to "unplug" the O2 sensor? |
Turk
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 07:21 pm: |
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I have the front two cells at 70 and the rear at 66 on an xb9 and still can't get it to idle at 1000-1050. That's with a tps of 5.8%. How much fuel do I need to add to the idle cells?
You should be adjusting you fuel based on based on an appropriate air fuel ratio for a given rpm and throttle position, not to force an idle rpm. Idle speed is set by adjusting the amount of air into the engine.
Next i'm going to try 70 front 70 rear, shouldn't they both have the same fuel requirements at idle?
No. |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 10:15 pm: |
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'You should be adjusting you fuel based on an appropriate air fuel ratio for a given rpm and throttle position, not to force an idle rpm. Idle speed is set by adjusting the amount of air into the engine.'
Turk, I would agree with what you say about setting the idle speed if it were a carby engine.
The parameters for the idle setting are documented in Buell service literature as well as the aftermarket items.
If the engine does not idle at the correct settings for tps,there is no code making itself known and the inlet seals are fine etc then would it not make sense to adjust the other parameter in the fuel/air equation - the amount of fuel?
(Message edited by Bombardier on October 21, 2008) |
Xl_cheese
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 11:29 pm: |
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you adjust the fuel so that your CL ego corr hovers around 100.
To adjust RPM turn up the idle adjust screw. I've toyed with 4 xb9's and they needed a tps around 7% to get ~950rpm. |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 05:22 am: |
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To adjust RPM turn up the idle adjust screw. I've toyed with 4 xb9's and they needed a tps around 7% to get ~950rpm
Thanks! That has been my experience as well. |
Typeone
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 11:24 am: |
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something ive been wondering on this stuff. people who have had long-term success with some of these methods for 'tuning' whether it's idle or other areas, must live in a climate where there isn't much change. just an assumption, have no clue.
ive had great results tuning my idle to CL EGO Corr. but after riding in different weather, the idle gets out of wack again. makes sense but it made the point to me that i will be doing the work over and over trying to find the right 'base condition'. i know EGO will compensate, but it doesnt play out the same as the stock map, at least in my various tests. the square idle thing has never worked for me after a short time, i get better results with mildly tweaked idle fuel cell numbers by studying logs in MLV.
anyone know to what atmospheric conditions Buell originally came up with the fuel maps in? e.g. 70 degree day, low humidity, elevation, etc.?
this made me also wonder about the maps i'm ready to purchase and test out from American Sportbike. since they're in Cali and I'm in New England, curious how the bike will perform over the course of season. i can feel changes occur when the bike learns during different days. some maps will scale fine, others will cause rough spots. nothing major, never had the awful running, stumbling, whatever so many mention but i know this bike can run VERY smooth. when its a hair off, i feel it. for instance, the '07 stock fuel and timing maps make my bike a pure joy to ride with the AFV set at 100. as soon as it learns (jumped to 105 the other day), i lose that extra-smooth feeling through the powerband.
woah, long stream of thought... just had some of this on my mind while reading. |
Moosestang
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 06:45 pm: |
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Hey Mike, I see the idle ignition timing adj. enable in the ecm-config page. Is this something that you normally disable? |
Xoptimizedrsx
| | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 08:23 pm: |
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as turk stated you need to have enough tps deg for the idle speed you are after then set the fuel to feed that deg. its a match game you should be playing. not a give it fuel to get a idle speed. you need to match the cells.
also note just playing with fuel numbers . well there is a little more to it.
the intake is a single plane split in two directions. with a cooler front and a hotter rear.
how many people have seen inside these as a cut away. it will totally mess with your brain. as it works 180% oppsite than you would think.
watch the ego numbers if your adding fuel and the ego is backing down below 100 then the rpm is not high enough add more tps deg. then adjust the fuel again.
you will need to do this even after you get the rpm you are after to get the ego your bike asks for as its set in the o2 values hard coded to the ecm.
now add more deg tps for a higher rpm. set the fuel in those cells to get the ego required.
now blend the cells.
now back the deg tps down and recheck the ego.
twist the throttle a little the ego should of went uo the back down and held steady plus/minus a few points if all is set right.
its not rocket science. but if you are going for a rpm and you dont have the tps set at enough deg open you will never get the fuel correct.
this data goes for ever cell and ever tps deg. as the afv number is a collection based off of riding. .
it will lie to you as i can place fuel numbers in the ride position i know that are extremely to high . yet still get a afv that says i need more4 fuel.
its just a overall guide. you need to feed the fuel for ever cell in ever tps as the bike asks for it. not based off afv alone...
the ecm is smart it will tell you WHAT YOU NEED TO LOOK FOR.
ALSO DO YOUR SELVES A FAVOR AND GET A LC1 WIDEBAND O2 AND INSTALL IN THE STOCK LOCATION. IT WILL GET YOU THE CLEAN DATA YOU NEED.
MIKE |
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