| Author | Message | ||
     Maleman876 |
hello all. 2008 xb12s here, 100 miles on it. when idling and you punch it, it stumbles and hesitates, then sputters and revs. you also smell gas when this happens. if you roll on the throttle slowly to get off of idle, then punch it it revs fine. ive only seen this happen in neutral, when at or JUST above idle. at higher rpms its fine. any ideas? | ||
| Paint_shaker |
It happens on the 08's. So does crappy fuel milage. Hopefully Buell is investigating a fix for these issues.... | ||
| Brumbear |
My 06 did it until I broke it in but I understand you can get an ecm flash update on the 08 as they have had issues | ||
| Sticks |
I have an '06 City and if you play Racer X at a light or whatever it will fart. The bikes sound so cool you want to blip it sometimes, but they don't seem to like it, particularly if not warmed up really well and right from idle. My bike just can't be given a handful from idle. If I ease into it just a little then all is well. Maybe they aren't all that way, mine is pretty stock, Drummer, race ECM, K&N. Other than that it runs like raped ape. Just my 1.5 cents. | ||
| Buplaux |
Stock they are all way too lean at idle and they do not have enough initial timing. I know this from my own experiences tuning mine. Do the square idle adjustment and disable idle closed loop(75 front, 71 rear). Bump timing from 0 to 6 degrees advanced in the idle zone. Say good by to off idle stumbles for good...... | ||
| Xbrfirebolt |
I have a '08 XB121R. It's done the same since new. It now has 5,300 miles. Still has the bad flat spot/stumble. I had it at the dealer for a month. They did allot of work on it, but nothing fixed it. They're still working with Buell to find a solution for me. I believe it's all in the ECM for passing the smog requirements in California. It has to be lean off idle to have the flat spot. | ||
| M1combat |
'04 with 50K on it... Mine has always done that. You don't lose any performance as that's not proper form anyhow. Roll on just a tad and then nail it. Pause at 5-10% throttle for just a "moment" then go for it. It's kind of a double tap I guess. | ||
| Xbrfirebolt |
Roll on just a tad and then nail it. Pause at 5-10% throttle for just a "moment" then go for it. It's kind of a double tap I guess. I understand what you're saying. I do that to get around the problem at times. It's not right for any engine to run like that if it's tuned properly. Harleys big twins don't do it. Why should we have to put up with a poorly tuned new bike? You can't properly down shift and match the rpm for the gear with the way these bikes run! | ||
| M1combat |
Yes you can... If you're having this trouble anywhere other than AT idle then there's something wrong. As soon as mine crosses about 1100 RPM I can do anything I want with the throttle. You don't have to put up with a poorly tuned bike  . ECMSpy. Square Idle Mod. Do it. I think you can increase the accel pump with ECM Spy as well. That should solve the issue completely IF it's the same issue I'm having. I hesitate to say it is if you're having any trouble what so ever more than 100 RPM's above idle. | ||
| M1combat |
Oh, and all the stock, FI'd bigtwins I've ever tried this with do exactly the same thing as my firebolt. If you're having issues elsewhere then you may have a problem. | ||
| Xbrfirebolt |
M1combat, ECMSpy doesn't work on '08 models. So in the mean time those of us who have them are stuck. You shouldn't have any bog, stumble, or flat spot off idle with any engine. If you do, there's something wrong. I'm not happy with my first brand new bike that you have to play with the throttle to ride it. Why should we have to learn to ride around the fueling/timing issue rather than Buell fixing it? M1combat, please don't take this as a rant on you, it isn't. I appreciate your responses to the questions with your findings. I just think Buell needs to fix this. | ||
| M1combat |
It's not something they can do anything about... It's the EPA. I don't take it personally . | ||
| M1combat |
I guess I don't see it as something you have to "ride" around as such... on mine it only happens AT idle (not "just off idle" or "from steady state throttle at any RPM" or "any time I give it some throttle"). Only when the bike is sitting there happily idling with no throttle applied and I go and whack the throttle open. If it's stumbling anywhere else you have another issue. | ||
| Xbrfirebolt |
M1combat, We're talking about the same thing here. I think maybe the '08s are just worse. Once past that point, it runs fine since they did the ecm reflash. I'm happy with the response past 2,000 rpm. Love the bike, just hate the bad stumble/flat spot. edit, when I rode to work Monday morning, I paid more attention to the tach. Below 2,000 rpm very poor response. (Message edited by xbrfirebolt on August 04, 2008) | ||
| Randomchaos |
Timing? | ||
| Firemanjim |
Have you tried ecm spy as we have done several 08's with success. | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... It sounds like there's more going on with your bike. Mine is fine at like 1150and up let alone 1500. It's ONLY at IDLE that I get a bit of a hickup when I whack open the throttle. AT idle. Nowhere ABOVE idle. Only AT idle. Mine was fixed by doing the square idle procedure. Now I whack it open from idle and it just gains revs. I also added some fuel along the upper ranges of TPS/RPM. Added a decent chunk of power but more because I've done some mods to the bike so it needed it. | ||
| Rhun |
My 08 12s has to be warmed up thoroughly before it quits sputtering and popping at low speed. Having it idle for 3 minutes doesn't help with the crappy gas mileage. I guess market research showed at $1.50 a gallon buell riders want 55 to 60 MPG and at $4 per gallon we only want 40MPG. Since I believe EPA standards changed in 08 Buell had to do more stuff to make them compliant, which turned a great efficient running bike into a finicky inefficient bike. Maybe the guys at American Sport bike will come up with a good flash that will solve our problems and thus not have Buell violate federal laws. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable fee for a good map, even if I had to promise to only use it on the track!! | ||
| Bartimus |
FMJ, what exactly have you done with ECMspy on the '08 models? What version are you running? I am running the latest version 1.12.1 and am unable to make any changes to the eeprom. I get a mismatch firmware error every time. Bart | ||
| Tank_bueller |
I understand about the "flat spot" that these motors are known for... BUT, the 08 issue is worse than just a "flat spot". My bike hesitates, POPS, and nearly dies. It has caused me to nearly dump my brand new bike multiple times, and I was expecting it. As for the 08/ECMspy thing, I read here somewhere that the early ecm's did work with Ecmspy, but when they updated to the new version of firmware(and when they update early ecm's with Digital tech at dealers), Ecmspy no longer works. This is obviously third hand info, but seems to make sense. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Geez guys, he only has 100 miles on it. Why don't we suggest he rides it a bit and breaks it in before he starts screwing around with it? I would not mess with it at all till it is broken in, properly (by buells owners manual). Then if it still acting up I would start tinkering or take it in for some warranty work. IMHO the bike just needs some miles put on it. | ||
| Xbgeorge |
Tank-"BUT, the 08 issue is worse than just a "flat spot". My bike hesitates, POPS, and nearly dies. It has caused me to nearly dump my brand new bike multiple times, and I was expecting it." My 08 XB12R has done the same thing many times. I had to put my foot down, in a slow corner, to keep it from dumping a few times. Mine has 4,200 miles on it and has been reflashed. It is much better than when it was new. The reflashed helped, but was no cure. I agree with LOST IN OHIO, It will get better when it breaks in. It just won't get great. It is still my favorite purchase. (Message edited by xbgeorge on August 04, 2008) | ||
| Jdemoxb9r |
from what ive read on previous boards the ECMSpy only works on SOME of the 08's but not all.. | ||
| Tank_bueller |
I love the bike so far! Only complaints are the "pop", and the tight steering stops. Oh and the heat. I really want to put a Drummer on this bike, but not until I can implement a solid fueling solution, other than Ecmspy and a dyno. But if I have to..... From what I read, the flash is supposed to help with the "pop" and a rough condition around 4k. My bike doesn't have the 4k thing, but the pop off idle is wicked evil. | ||
| Xbgeorge |
I have the 4k thing, actually about 4,200-4,500. The heat is almost unbearable sometimes. I took a 50 mile trip to Chicago in 85 degree heat. Because of construction, the trip took over three hours. I actually had first degree burns on the inside of both legs, from the frame rails. I always wear gloves, a jacket and helmet. I got the burns through my thickest pair of jeans. To me, that seems to be too hot. The bike was not, I repeat not happy in Chicago. On a side note, I saw 4 brand new Ducati 1098's and two 848's. Nice bikes, but a dime a dozen Downtown. I was the only Buell. | ||
| Rhun |
I wonder why they raised the fan turn on temp by 39 degrees? 98 degrees outside and no fan running. compared to my 04 and 05 my right leg gets really hot!!! Anyone no where you can buy aluminium foil socks? | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I have 9,700 miles on my 08 XB12R. It has had the cough/ hiccup at idle since zero miles. I generally don't notice because I launch between 1800-2000 RPM. It also pops pretty good upon decel (both with a stock can and with a Spec OPS can). This doesn't bother me. The bike pulls pretty good from 2,000 to 4,000 and pulls like a MOFO above 4,000. I like to run between 3,200 and 4,000 when cruising. It does get hot on the backside of my right knee, but I have not suffered burns and I have only heard the fan come on once with the bike running (I live in the heat and humidity of Florida). I do agree that Buells don't like to stand still for any great amount of time. For all their quirks, I'm still a Buell fanatic and can not see myself riding rice anytime soon!!! | ||
| Tank_bueller |
George, you got the best color! Gotta learn NOT to grip the bike. It gets HOT. Spread the legs and get some air! Easy for me to say, Riding an XT. Seat still gets hot. Gotta do something about it before next week. Going the distance. | ||
| Id073897 |
I am running the latest version 1.12.1 and am unable to make any changes to the eeprom. I get a mismatch firmware error every time. 2008 models are not supported with EcmSpy. Regards, Gunter |
