| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
My thoughts are the same Boulderbike.I want a pipe for some sound but(are ya listening Dyna) not if I have to sacrifice any HP anywhere across the board. | ||
| Dynarider |
And thats my point, the pipe on your XB works great. More hp than your old bike, more hp than any of us actually require. Why tear up a brand new bike & disable an exhaust that does the job? Gives you both top end hp & good down low torque? Its the search for sound, pure & simple thats it. You might say you wont sacrifice any hp, but say they throw a D&D on for example or even a drummer & it gets a little better topend but you might lose 2-3ponies down low? I can see folks swapping out simply because the pipe sounds better. BTW, how much you wanna bet that by removing the stock exhaust on your 12, you end up voiding your warranty? The entire setup is part of a complete package. Disable 1 part & screw up something else. Oh just throw the stock exhaust back on if you have warranty issues you say. Are you aware that the ecm has a memory & records info such as rpm range, miles on it, etc. Disable your exhaust stepper motor & the ecm will know it. But hey its your brand new bike, do what you want. | ||
| Bads1 |
Don't want to bet ya Dyna.Lets just say I won't have that problem I know that.Ukes has one on the floor already kitted.Do you think they can sell it without a warranty?? | ||
| Dynarider |
yes i do think they could sell it like that. Your warranty is only as good as your dealer. You can have a 1-2 year warranty but if your dealer & or Buell gets a bug up their ass they can deny you service. how well do you think Ukes is going to take care of someone who went of state to get a bike instead of using them? I bet the person who spends the $$$ there will get better service. | ||
| Dynarider |
PS, remember that the dealers will also sell you a lot of different screaming eagle parts that will also void your warranty. Hmm imagine that, a dealer selling you a factory part that once installed on your bike renders your brand new warranty useless. | ||
| Court |
>>I know that.Ukes has one on the floor already kitted.Do you think they can sell it without a warranty?? ----That's an entirely different thing. >> but if your dealer & or Buell gets a bug up their ass they can deny you service. ----That's entirely inaccurate, so is the 1:27am post, in it's entirety. Can you get tossed out of here for introducing facts into a perfectly illogical pissin' match?  | ||
| Dynarider |
>> but if your dealer & or Buell gets a bug up their ass they can deny you service. ----That's entirely inaccurate, so is the 1:27am post, in it's entirety. Read the screaming eagle literature Court in the Harley P&A catalog. Installation of the parts which are marked as not legal for road use can void your warranty. And how can you state a Dealer cannot deny you service?? Buell themselves will tell you to go to another delaer if you are denied service. They dont have to work on your bike if they dont want to. PS...ask Rene in Buell CS about voiding someones warranty even tho said person is only 4 months into the year long warranty. edited by dynarider on October 06, 2003 | ||
| Dynarider |
Quote from the P&A catalog. "warranty: Installation of screamin' eagle products and similar products from other manufacturers, except some street legal offerings installed by authorized Harley Davidson dealers may affect your H-D limited vehicle warranty. See your dealer for more information" If you go thru the list of what is "street legal" the list is very very small. Air cleaners, cylinder studs & plug wires are street legal. None of the exhausts are. edited by dynarider on October 06, 2003 | ||
| Court |
Sounds like we are due for some rudimentary inculcation with regards the basics of a warranty. I've not the time now, but you can warm up by boning up on the basic of what a contract (a warranty is a contract) is and is not. You, in your posts are describing TWO separate and quite distinct animals. The first is a WARRANTY - the legal animal. The second is GOODWILL - a commercial animal. You have, in your two posts, bred these animals to create something that is easy to describe as a Buell/HD contrived monster. Just like the droids, it's something that's fun to talk about, makes great bar room chatter, but doesn't exist in real life. Court P.S. - if you are struggling with the concept of "post contract changes", call you life insurance company and tell them you've subsequently acquired a 2 pack a day Pall Mall habit and see what they do. | ||
| Dynarider |
The second is GOODWILL - a commercial animal. An ancient byproduct of the company before they were bought by Harley that has been rendered obsolete. Good luck with the mythical goodwill. Too many folks on this board alone have been denied "goodwill" repairs. Harley calls the shots now days & they say "go by the book" if its not covered in the warranty or the warranty has been voided thru use of unapproved parts, they will not fix it for free. | ||
| Dynarider |
I've not the time now, but you can warm up by boning up on the basic of what a contract (a warranty is a contract) is and is not. No need to, thats why God created lawyers. | ||
| Boulderbiker |
I'm new to this board. Things usually this spirited around here?  and back to the Drummer, hey XB12R, how would you compare the new setup compared to stock on the XB12R with the valve, power increase, torque curve? Or of course if you've had a chance to do the dyno run, that would work just as well ;o) | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Brian, If you wasn't so butt ugly Id kiss you. That pipe kicks butt. I only got about ten miles on it,but that drummer makes some serious power. Ted, you better get rid of that D&D while its still worth acouple of bucks. When this drummer gets on a couple dozen bikes,you wont be able to give this other stuff away............Later Charlie Oh come on charlie give me a big ol wet one. I am glad ya like it. It is pretty cool if I do say so my self. Dyna not to start nuthin here but if goodwill is dead and gone some days I must be a slick talkin fool. The dyno that xb12r ran on was done by goof balls. They were guys that usually do jap bikes and didn't start the run till 4k rpm so we don't have reliable numbers yet. xb12r is gonna go somewhere else and get it done plus dave is gonna hopefully do some stuff with it out in Iowa. Gary let me know when ya get it done. brian tilley hd/buell buckinfubba@hotmail.com | ||
| Boulderbiker |
I was re-reading Gearhead's post up above, and he had an idea. You know how a couple people have mentioned that they're not huge fans of the long pipe sticking out the rear, but its good for performance gains, well, what if you took your current drummer pipe with the rear end just being a flat wall with the appropriate tip, then you added the old end section back on so it really did look in length like the original pipe except there would be a very short tip coming out the rear slightly to one side. So functionaly it was the same as the current design, but asthetically it was a sleeper, and since I'd heard a couple people ask about alternate tips. This could take care of that without compromising the function of it. Of course your process of building would probably have to change to simplify design and minimize labor. Just my 2 cents. BTW, thanks for the update on the dyno run for the 12R. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Now a review of the drummer on its first full day in the mountains and twisties of North carolina. What I did was perform a few test tho not scientific, test none the less. I ran 2 different xb9r's in a drag sorta situation, one stock with a 170lbs rider, one race kitted with 190 lbs rider. and me a drummer equipped 250 lbs rider. Obviously I walked away from the stock bike even tho the weight difference and remember thats 80 lbs. The cool thing was with the race kitted bike. the whole shot took the deal and then pulled away steadily never to be caught. I shut down the throttle at 120 mph. which didn't take long to reach. Now for the moutains. We purposely took a route we know well. so I could give a good comparo. Because the down low torque is better and smoother and flatter. I didn't find the need to down shift anywhere near as often as usuall because it would drive out of the corner strong. I let a few of the guys ride it that have been riding their 9's for a year and they came up with the same thing. One even said he did down shift once going in to a corner and kept the rpms high and when he got on it coming out of the apex he said it felt like the front was getting lite. So he stopped doing that. So the pipe is doingf exactly what I wanted it to do. Better drive out of the corners. Plus we had a zx12 with us yesterday and for shits and giggles we did a drag race roll on from 2nd gear. Needless to say he won but not until we hit 90 mph then he rolled on. See what I am getting at is weight is everything big powerful engine in a zx12 against a lil bolt and until your really breaking the law all that power just don't matter. BTW I let him ride my bolt also and he has concluded his zx12 is a big fat pig. He rode it down hickory nut gap road , which is so tight it is hard to hit 45 mph. He couldn't belive the difference. I wonder what trade value is on a zx12. Brian Tilley hd/buell buckinfubba@hotmail.com | ||
| Buckinfubba |
boulderbiker The answer is no we won't change it. Sorry, just the way it is. Performance is everything to me and thats how it stays. plus if you think you know how the pipe is made in constuction of it and the time put into it to get it right. Then you can buy one and cut the end off and then weld on the other. It will affect performance to the weaker side. So I respectfully refuse. I am not agitated by your questions so if my tone sounds that way it is not. Brian Tilley hd/buell buckinfubba@hotmail.com ps the end of the can is not the shape you think it is. | ||
| Leeaw |
With barely any more riding season, I am forced to wait until I put the bike away for the winter to actually send you my stock exhaust. I think you should give me some sort of discount because my laptop is up as I somehow got drool all over it. | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm new to this board. Things usually this spirited around here? This in not very "spirited". Differnet folks see different things from different perspectives. The dialouge is just that, a discussion. No one here has the credibilty to be THE authority anbd each is entitled to an opinion. Most times, even in a heated discussion with two widely disparate sides, we maintain the ability to remain ladies and gentlemen. I know Greg and like him. We differ frequently on opinions. I, long ago, stopped letting these types of discussions make or break my day. And...some day Greg will be as wise and worldy as I. | ||
| Bads1 |
>>>How do you think Ukes would take care of someone that went out of state to purchase there bike. Well Dyna my relationship has not been hampered at all.End of discussion. | ||
| Easyflier |
Brian, I don't think he's saying to change the internals at all, just wondered if it's possible to weld the original tail section to what you guys already built. Although I agree with you, it would likely increase your cost and assembly times. It is certainly an alternative for someone to do if they really want to retain the look of the stock pipe. I noticed one thing while taking another look at the photos the other night. That air space between the muffler can and the rear tire visually stretch the swingarm, giving the bike a more traditional look. I dunno, looking forward to seeing one installed up at Waterloo in the near future. | ||
| Cj_xb |
How do you think Ukes would take care of someone that went out of state to purchase there bike. A dealership like any good business can't take those things personally, they'd never survive !! You win some, you lose some, that's the nature of the business. A good business is also going to do what they do the best they can, and if you bring in your bike to be serviced they'll do a great job regardless, or not have your repeat business !! CJ XB | ||
| Daves |
I know that we(the techs, the ones that know what they are doing, not me) work on both HDs and Buells that were bought elsewhere all the time. Just good business to do so. Ride to the edge! Dave Iowa HD/Buell (Buell Cycle Center) | ||
| Buckinfubba |
easyflier Like I said anybody can cut off the end pipe and put anything on they want. It will affect performance period end of story. But this is the pipe we made up and this is the pipe we sell. we did shorten the end pipe 3/4" and everything performance wise worked great. | ||
| Easyflier |
Brian, he's not advocating cutting off the end pipe, or even shortening it, so performance would be unaffected. He's talking about enclosing it so it can still do its job, just encapsulating it in a false cover to retain a sleeper look for the street. Nobody is asking that performance be compromised. Matter of fact, if that 3/4" makes a difference I'd probably weld it back on. | ||
| Tripper |
Oh thank you. Buell goodwilled to me an exhaust hanger last month. I asked my dealer real nice, and he asked Buell CS real nice, and voila! | ||
| Buckinfubba |
easflier I miss understood what was being ask. But it wont fit or look right because our endpipe is longer than the cover. But again if someone wants to do that themselves I'd say have at. Personally I never liked the look myself. sorry about the misunderstanding. BTW #4 is being sold tomorrow. I'd like to end this discussion of us changing the pipe. You've got to understand this. This pipe was made the way I wanted it to look and produce the power I wanted. In reverse order performance first evrything else in second. We probably won't ever change it unless some one comes up with a doosy of an Idea. Its light weight it works and in my eyes looks real good. so keep the thoughts coming but don't get your feathers ruffled if we say no. This pipe may not be for everybody and probably isn't. so be it | ||
| Glitch |
Form must follow function. 'Nough said... | ||
| Easyflier |
No problem Brian, from your response I figured that was the case. I agree with you, stay with what works and keep it simple and affordable. If I can't tune around my hacked pipe I'll probably be on that long list to get one of yours. Personally I like the way mine sounds right now, if I can reduce the popping on deceleration and get some bottom end back, but performance will dictate in the end. (FWIW, with my helmet on and the bike crusing at 4k on the road it reminds me of being up in the airplane my dad used to have ) | ||
| Dynarider |
This in not very "spirited". Differnet folks see different things from different perspectives. The dialouge is just that, a discussion. No one here has the credibilty to be THE authority anbd each is entitled to an opinion. Most times, even in a heated discussion with two widely disparate sides, we maintain the ability to remain ladies and gentlemen. I know Greg and like him. We differ frequently on opinions. I, long ago, stopped letting these types of discussions make or break my day. And...some day Greg will be as wise and worldy as I. I knew there was a reason I liked you And how boring it would be if we were all of the same mindset & had the exact same opinions on everything. Variety is the spice of life. | ||
| Dynarider |
I, long ago, stopped letting these types of discussions make or break my day. I can just imagine some folks reading the boards & getting all bent out of shape, stomping around the house, kicking the dog, etc  not to start nuthin here but if goodwill is dead and gone some days I must be a slick talkin fool. Brian, a good part of the Goodwill deal falls upon the dealer to present the case to Buell properly. A bad dealer wont work for the customer & simply doesnt care. edited by dynarider on October 06, 2003 |
