| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Not interested in Harley. The mothership has already demonstrated time and time again that they do NOT understand the Buell market, nor the Buell owner. The only Harleys I've even remotely been interested in have been discontinued: The Street Rod and the Tour Glide Ultra. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Harley has a hard enough time understanding their own market. | ||
| Bads1 |
John sorry but wrong. HD has a board of directors and in which John Flickinger brings Buell's idea's and designs to on which he thinks that Buell goe's in that direction. He has to get approval to spend money..... Buell's money. HD does not give HD money to Buell. HD's board though does say whether or not its financially smart to spend the money. Buell has no factory race team. Just help's with privateers with contingency money. HD on the other hand does basically have a factory drag race team partnering with V&H. Buell is its own company that HD control's. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Dana, Buell's money is Harley's. | ||
| Bads1 |
You don't use Peter Paul to pay Mary. One doesn't support the other. If you own two business you don't use one of business funds to help support the other.... even if you own both. Both have to stand on their own. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
But Buell doesn't stand alone. That ended when Erik sold to Harley. When he did that ALL assests and finances became HD's If Buell really stood alone as a company, why do they need ask for approval to spend money? Like it or not, without HD's money, we probably wouldn't see Buell as we do today. You know alot more about the earlier days of Buell than I do. Do you think Erik and Co. could have produced the XB bike or 1125 on their own? (Message edited by buellinachinashop on June 21, 2008) | ||
| Bads1 |
John I think your missing my point. I gotta go though. The wife is graduating today. She gets her Bachelor's in Nursing.I'm a proud Husband today. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
and you're gonna be alot richer!! Congrats!!!! I always miss points unless they're under a wet t-shirt. | ||
| Bads1 |
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| Ft_bstrd |
Buell is market segmentation. HD understands that there is a large portion of the US market that will NEVER buy a cruiser. They will buy a sport bike. There are other sectors in the dirt market or scooter market that if HD wanted to they could enter. Buell is dependent upon HD for monetary support. HD is dependent on Buell to create a motorcycle people want to buy. HD understands that were the HD name on Buells instead of Buell, many people who ride sport bikes wouldn't even take a look. It's bad enough you have to go to a cruiser store to buy one, but you have to battle through the marginal interest of sales people (not you Cityxslicker or Andy) and negative bias in the service department. The name means everything. Without "Buell" it would simply be too easy for people to discount the brand and not even give it a look. | ||
| Darth_buell |
when you walk into the new york new york in vegas, you are not walking into the Luxor. They are owned by the same company.I can bet that the high rollers in the Mandalay bay wouldn't be caught dead in Circus Circus. Same owners... all four. Same owners, different companies doin different business to DIFFERENT PEOPLE. Different consumer target means different product line.. in the early days of Buell, he got another maker of engines and MADE it into a decent bike over time. now he took a good motor and DESIGNED a housing (bike from top to bottom) that extracts the most of that motor. If it were all the same Erik would have never left them. And why would Harley buy something they are already making.  I love this place.....good healthy bickering.  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Again Darth, thanks. By having companies like HD and Buell under one family, we enojoy the benefits of that by the likes of HOG, EagleMark, etc..kinda like when you go to casinos in Vegas you can use your MEMBERS cards at each of those "family" casinos! See? Having Buell in the HD family is good! | ||
| Darth_buell |
I can agree it is the same Familia but it isn't a Harley.. My dog is family, I love him with everything I have, I ADDED him to my family, when the time was right I AQUIRED a dog, I feed him, Take him out and play with him, but the fact remains, he is a DIFFERENT beast than I. I ride with alot of Harley riders. We are a family, but we are far from the same. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I can agree it is the same Familia but it isn't a Harley.. " Nobody here said it was. Read the whole thread. | ||
| Alchemy |
I certainly don't know Harley's or Buells business but I can comment on the family of companies where I work. We are a stand-alone company owned by a larger company that owns many 10s of other companies. The larger company goes to great lengths to try to keep the culture of the smaller companies intact for the workers. At the board level or top executive level there is virtually complete subservience to the larger owning company. Executive bonus and careers for these executives are controlled by the owning company. There is a business plan agreed to where the amount and final destination of the profits is defined. This is the marching orders of the day - the performance vs forecast goal. Profits may be returned or all profit may be swept away for use by another company or whatever. You can be the beneficiary or the bearer of these decisions. If we really exceed the business plan there can be some agreement that a portion of "excess" profits be held back for internal projects and development otherwise if you only meet plan then you have to compete with similar plans put forward by other companies for such development dollars. After watching this for close to 20 years I have come to view the larger owner as similar to venture capitalists or bankers in disguise responsible mostly to the larger capital and equity markets. It is all about the stock market to the larger owners. Right now we are getting modest support but essentially being drained of our substantial profits to support the owners/bankers so they can satisfy the equity markets by reporting reassuring cash-flow and money for dividends. I would suspect Buell is under similar pressure to deliver to the mother company to keep the overall appearances as rosy as possible. Just my 2 cents.... | ||
| Darth_buell |
The name of the thread is who MAKES Buell... not who owns them. Yeah a little of topic... Buell makes Buell. it's that simple | ||
| Jlnance |
But Buell doesn't stand alone. That ended when Erik sold to Harley. When he did that ALL assests and finances became HD's It's an accounting thing, but it matters beyond that. HD does own Buell, but they run it as a separate company. One of the benifits (to HD) of doing so is that Buell does stand on it's own and either makes a profit, or goes out of business independently of HD. It's even more complex than that actually. My understanding is that there is a parent company HDI, which owns Buell, Harley Davidson Motor Company, and Harley Davidson Financial Services. Each one is responsible for being profitable, and each one can go out of business if it fails at that. When Buell wants a motor for an XB, they buy it from the motor company. If the motor company charges too much, they buy it from Rotax. Having Buell and the Motor Company as separate entities facilitates that sort of internal competition. | ||
| Mr2shim |
The name of the thread is who MAKES Buell... not who owns them. Yeah a little of topic... Buell makes Buell. it's that simple WIN /thread | ||
| Bumblebee |
Yup, Buell makes Buell. Harley has owned quite a few side companies over the years, Remember Holiday Rambler? They made camper trailers, no longer a Part of Harley-Davidson, but they were in the family. I don't know how many Buells are produced each year, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think the number is huge; but the funding that HD has pumped into the company has been, the new 1125R was very expensive to develop, along with all of the other work that's been done lately on the Buell line. Harley very much wants Buell to succeed. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Harley very much wants Buell to succeed. I sure the hell hope so cause I want to buy another when this one wears out! In my opinion Buell makes Buell. It doesn't say HD on the tank (airbox cover  ), it says Buell. Eric Buell built my dream bike and appropriately his name is on it.} | ||
| Court |
This, as we approaching Homecoming, is a fun thread for me to read. The first Buells, in the day when they were scrambling to build the new building, quickly get the S2 designed and hire some employees, had a reference to Harley-Davidson on it right there on the medallion on the instrument panel. The moment someone at Harley-Davidson found out about this they scadaddled out to Buell and removed all the medallions and replaced them with the "Free Breathing" language. Like the red 1990 RS "Passion" poster and the Snap-On "Buell Race of Champions" gap gauges they were to all be destroyed. Somehow a couple ended up in my tool box. For a photo of "the one you never saw" check out 25 YEARS OF BUELL (Page 78). | ||
| Jlnance |
had a reference to Harley-Davidson on it right there on the medallion on the instrument panel. My 03 Blast has "Buell a Harley Davidson Company" inside the speedo. Is that still there? | ||
| F_skinner |
The one question I get the most about my Buells no matter if I am riding the S1W, S2 or XB is; That is made by Harley Davidson, isn't it? My answer is always the same. No, it is made by Buell. If they are still interested in the bike I try to explain, with my limited knowledge, the HD ownership, separation of factories, the dealership network and the pooling of resources to make a better bike . Funny thing about Harley riders. The Sporty riders (I was one for many years and still am at heart) are really taken when I tell them about the motor. More so with the S1W. They can see it is a Sporty motor, they can see while it is the same it is also very different and they always stick around to hear it but if I can get them to ride with me that is when they understand the difference. SIDE NOTE: Funny how the XB and the S2 do not get near the interest as the S1W. While I believe the S2T sexiest, best bike ever made and the XB is well refined and fast, the S1W really stirs the soul. Who makes Buell??? Buell does, Harley Davidson is just along for the ride. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Somehow a couple ended up in my tool box. For a photo of "the one you never saw" check out 25 YEARS OF BUELL (Page 78)." I like the sample .PDF, very nice. | ||
| Ekass13 |
Anyone ever take your muffler off and hear what your XB sounds like??? | ||
| Darth_buell |
I think it would sound like any other v-twin without a muffler... 2k RPM's with 2 cylinders is 2K RPM's with 2 cylinders. I'm sure the bore can affect the sound but it's the same. I'm sure a pipe can be crafted that makes a bUELL SOUND LIKE A dUCATI RIGHT. bUT WHAT IS THE FUN IN HAVING ALL SPORT BIKES SOUND THE SAME. I like my bikes sound . Am I wrong about the sound of V-twins........... | ||
| Jaimec |
It'll NEVER sound like a Ducati, because the Ducati is a 90 degree twin and the Buell is only a 45 degree twin. That's also why taking the muffler off of a BMW Boxer doesn't make it sound like a Harley either... it just makes it sound like a loud BMW. | ||
| Darth_buell |
I understand the 45 vs the 90 degree thing. But the meat and potatoes of any motor is the INTERNAL COMBUSTION. I think anyways. I know the Buell will make several other noises the other bikes don"t make cause of the 45 degrees, But I think it will sound similar. I'm a seeing is believing guy. No disrespect, but I think it would sound pretty much the same. | ||
| Diablobrian |
The degree of v (and number of crank pins)affects the firing pattern of the motor which can drastically change the sound of those internal combustion events. That's why the japanese had to go to dual crank pins to avoid infringing on Harley's trademark sound when they decided to go after the H-D market share by producing narrow angle v-twin engines. No potato-potato in their meat and potatoes!  | ||
| Deks69 |
Im happy the Buell is under the HD umbrella, reason I can get away with my harley loving family. But why wont they hold their value like HD does then? They charge inflated prices for parts just like HD but it looses its value out the door, (just like a ricer) but HD's dont. I've always got what I paid for an HD (or More) but my XB tricked out is worth half of what I paid. BS |
