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Buell Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through May 12, 2008 » Theory on fork seal leaks « Previous Next »

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Rpm4x4
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tons of great info here and I am greatful for the tips found here. I noticed my fork seal on the right side was leaking a couple days ago. Found a thread on here about using a thin piece of plastic to slide between the seal and fork to run around and clean the dirt out. Seemed to work for me, unless the fork is out of oil! I also noticed that most of the threads were talking about the right fork leaking. I couldn't help but notice that the brake caliper is inches away from the dust boot and when stopping is probably showering the seal with dust.I have to think there is something to that.

Mike
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Jos51700
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unfortunately, that is true. The abrasive grit generated by the brake pads is not the healthiest for seals, hence the "dust wiper" on the fork. Dirt bikes have similar issues, and sometimes, if a person gets their bike really muddy and lets it dry on there, and then rides without cleaning it, it will cause the seals to fail.

I don't like running a piece of plastic up there, because then the grit is inside the fork, eating bushings and wearing the chrome.

But, A guy can't throw new seals at it all the time, either.

I've wondered if different pads cause less trouble. I've also wondered if modding the front fender or adding the front fender scoop helps by blowing the dust out the back instead of letting it blow around on to the fork leg.
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Spatten1
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I also noticed that most of the threads were talking about the right fork leaking.

My right one was the leaker too, very interesting!
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80rs427
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mine was just the right side too.
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Tstone
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

RPM,

Sometimes the sealing surface is worn or damaged beyond redemption, but I've been using the fishing trick for years on my dirtbikes. You can even buy the thin plastic tool at some bike shops. I've always used a piece of 35mm film cut in the shape of...well...,this is a little hard to describe, so the best I can describe is the shape of a spanner wrench. Take a piece of 35mm film about 4 or 5 inches long and cut in the shape of a shallow "C" with a small barb at the end. Pop off the dust cover and carefully slip the tool between the fork slider and the seal. Use a gentle sawing motion and fish the tool all the way around the slider with the open end of the seal (and the barb) facing the direction of your "fishing" motion.
Sorry if my instructions are hard to follow but, once you have the film in hand and are standing in front of the bike, it'll all make sense.
Don't do this on forks with advance mileage. This fix works well if there's a little piece of grit stuck between the sealing surface and the slider, but if you're beyond the recommended fluid change intervals, you really should dump the old oil and replace the seals.

Good luck,
Tom S

(Message edited by tstone on May 09, 2008)
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Sloppy
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yep, it's brake dust that causes this. Insects also cause this problem too.

Here's what I do:
Weekly I wipe down the tube and then spray the down tube with silicone. Do it as part of your oil check / tire check routine. Once you get good at it, it will only take 10 seconds to do.

This does a few things:
1. allows the seal to glide easier.
2. creates a "lubrication dam" seal to help prevent debris from getting under the seal.
3. makes debris less likely to stay stuck on the tube and thus stays cleaner.
4. keeps the dust seal pliable.

Longest I've gone using this method is 3.5 years for year round riding.

Try it -- see if it works.

And if you do have a leak, use the thin PLASTIC method to try to dig under the leaking seal. If it stops leaking then great, if it doesn't, well you have to replace it anyway.

Make sure you address fork leaks QUICKLY. Otherwise the oil will blow onto the brake caliper pistons and cause damage to those seals!
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Are the fork seals failing before the normal 10,000 mile interval?
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Rpm4x4
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Are the fork seals failing before the normal 10,000 mile interval?

Many that I have read here are. Mine has 8000 miles.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not good. I haven't noticed a preponderance of brake dust on the fork.

Where is it coming from? The caliper is behind the fork. I guess as the rotor moves forward it is showering the rear of the fork tube with dust. You'd think, though, that there would be enough air to keep the dust blown away from the fork leg.

Why would it be more of a problem for Buells than other brands? Wouldn't they have the same problem times two?

Looking at the picture, it would seem that on the Ulysses at least there is an air scoop that sucks air right into the space where dust might be coming off the rotor and spraying onto the fork.



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Rpm4x4
Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Its my guess that the low speed, stop and go traffic riders would see this more. I fall into that catagry. I think other bikes would see this less because of the rotors are closer to the hub.
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Jlnance
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 06:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've wondered if different pads cause less trouble.

The new Lyndals are supposed to be dustless. I've a bit of difficulty picturing that, but if it's true they might work better here.
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Ducxl
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 06:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A friend who posts here (Scottyj)
recently had his Uly fork spewing
oil.

But,any suspension shop can
R+R a set of forks for less
than $150. THey even recommend
it once a year.I've done them
myself.With just a couple hundred
bucks worth of specialized tools
anyone could do them very easily.
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Spatten1
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did it with $10 in specialty tools. Bailing wire and a tie down for a comprssor tool (thanks to Saintly) and pvc and a hammer to drive the seal.
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Brucen
Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

When I changed the fork oil at 10,000 miles I noticed that the oil from the right fork was dirtier than that from the left. It must be brake dust getting past the seal.
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Dedmann
Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think I understand why now....
after my second seal change in less than 1k miles; I believe it is fork bushings. the strain from the caliper leverage during hard breaking wears them out.... this lets the stanction stretch the seals and lets fluid pass.... thoughts?

(Message edited by dedmann on April 12, 2016)
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