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Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through May 12, 2008 » Changing Gearing on XB12S? « Previous Next »

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Ferocity02
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

For some reason, I don't really like cruising on the freeway at 3500rpm when the engine redlines at only twice that. I feel like I should be riding a R6 with that kind of cruise RPM. What can be done to change the gearing either inside in the primary or with the belt/pulley setup? I like to ride fast through the corners but I can't keep up with the I4 guys because my engine sounds like it's about to fall apart past 4k rpm. Any help would be appreciated, thanks!!!
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No_rice
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

it will run red line all day long.

but aside from that your option is to go to chain and use different sprockets i guess.
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Point_doc
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When I first got my bike I had the same thoughts, this why I and others would like to have a "six" gear. Since this is not an option; I just had to adjust my understanding of my bike especially after owning I4’s, and this is my first V-twin and a Harley.
I started riding with other Bueller’s and saw how they rode and then I started to ride mine accordingly. My bike runs strong above the 4k and the motor and drive train was engineered for this.
Get the "R"s up to 6k plus and you will feel more comfortable at 3500. In fact, a ride around this rpm (freeway speed) the bike starts to put me to sleep. After eating a meal and riding, that steady V-twin Harley beat.
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Swordsman
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I also used to think 3500 was a high cruise rpm (coming from cars that went faster @ only 2500 rpm), but after getting more familiar with the bike, I like it there. Anything less than 3k actually feels like it's kinda' lugging the engine. At 3.5k, you're still well under the sweet spot. The problem is, there's just not much left above the sweet spot!

~SM
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Buellray
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I usually cruise at highway speeds in 4th gear. Puts me at about 4.5k. I like the better power and I actually seem to get better gas mileage.
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M1combat
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

But you're also causing more wear and tear.
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 10:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It is a bike! Ride the freakin thing like you hate it. I cruise in the 4k range and hit the rev. limit once in a while, Mine is set at 7200.

I can usually shift just by the sound but some days I am a bit "off" and hit the R.L. often....

Bike seems to like it.....I like "wear & tear" it justifies me buying it...
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Luxor
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I gotta comment.

First, a 6 speed trans would only be good if it were a 1.25 to 1 ratio equaling OVERDRIVE. A 4 speed can do this with GEARING. Now, a 5 speed will do exactly what a 1 speed OR a 9 speed can do depending on GEARING. The Buell 5 speed at 1 to 1 in 5th is perfectly suited to what our bikes do, STREET riding. OK, off my soap box now.

M1Combat, higher RPM doesn't necessarily mean more engine wear. As you 'unload' and engine it's wear is reduced, meaning the less the engine has to work against itself the better. Make sense?

Again, to all above, no insult intended. I have been around transmissions and engines since I was knee high to a grasshopper, and I see allot of myth here.
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Point_doc
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Street riding, understood. But if you would stay on the original topic "freeway" then an overdrive makes sense! If not, then maybe the guy on the soap box could explain Harleys reasoning for most of their ’08 models (excluding v-rod and air cooled Buells) have gone to a 6-speed OD tranny’s?

Myth; how is having or even wanting an OD in an air cooled Buell a myth? Is there something you know that the engineers at HD don’t? Because your explanation on your expertise “since I was knee high to a grasshopper" is not convincing, especially since we all know that most modern bikes (import and domestic) have a six-speed gearbox that includes an OD.

What is a myth about the possibility of modernizing an air cooled Buell? Why has Baker Drivetrain “The Drivetrain Authority" (http://www.bakerdrivetrain.com/) make a six-speed conversion for the Sportster/Buell? Is there some knowledge that you have that you are keeping secret?

To you on the soap box, no insult intended. Maybe if you would have stayed on topic then you would not see a myth.
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Retrittion
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 04:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't bother with soap boxes...

So I do a ton of freeway riding -- regular 150+ mile days are not uncommon for me. Here is the thing I have noticed after a year of riding my 12R -- most people don't know crap about how this bike works. Personally I learned on metric bikes and transitioning to the 12R was, and continues to be, a learning experience. The good thing? Most squids don't have the patience to understand/transition to Buells so we get a relatively squid free community. Hurray!

So, first off -- forget what you think you know about RPM. Our Buell transmissions are designed for extended high RPM range running. I know because I have grilled every Buell and HD tech I can find and asked 'em. You can, and I do, run an XB in 4th gear on the highway at 70mph, usually humming along in the 4000RPM range. The bike likes this, it gets good mileage, and it allows good defensive riding (always a good thing).When squids or metric riders talk smack about my 12R only having 5 gears I tell them they can have my 5th gear, I only NEED 4. Funny, they shut up pretty quick after we spend time on the twisties...maybe they are tired from all that shifting.

Second -- just accept the noise and racket of your Buell. We don't sound like jet engines or F-1 cars. Just 'cause a bunch of people ride two wheeled vehicles that do doesn't make it the standard. It's one of the options, not the only one. Do you know what I don't miss on my old metric? Having to shift all the gawd-damn-time because some motorcycle designers used gearing rather than a torque producing engine to make a two wheeled vehicle go fast. I'll be the first to tell you how much I love a Triumph 675 or Ducati 748 on the track -- and I'll tell you just as quick I will not ride one of those things 300-600 miles in a day, multiple days in a row -- or commute on the I-5 on one either.

Finally, 5th gear is our overdrive gear -- it just happens that to make best use of it you need to be traveling at 105mph. Now, if your WANT 6 gears/different gear ratios I can hear that -- I wouldn't mind tinkering with my ratios either, tune the transmission to my whims -- but we don't NEED 6 gears, and our bikes are not deficient because of that omission, any more than a Harley is deficient if it lacks forward controls or ape hangers or a Triumph is deficient if it mounts anything other than cafe bars or a car happens to not have 7 or 8 gears.

It's like suspension stuff -- beyond the basics the rider needs to trust the numbers, the techs, and the engineering. It's not a soap box issue it's engineering, ratios, etc -- people seem to forget that a lot.

(Message edited by retrittion on May 07, 2008)
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Luxor
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Point Doc. I guess I was misunderstood, or didn't communicate my thoughts well. My point is that for years I've heard people talk about 6 speed thinking that the 6 gear was magical or something, all the while knowing that unless 6th is an overdrive gear, it would have zero benefit. Again, sorry for the mis-communication.

The Myth comment was more directed at engine wear, not the transmission, again, my fault for poor communication.

SO, On-Topic, a 6th gear with OD would benefit freeway riding quite allot, but ridden properly as explained above, the 5 speed trans is quite adequate.



(Message edited by luxor on May 07, 2008)
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Spatten1
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't lug any engine. If you are at low rpm and have the throttle open quite a bit, the engine is getting packed with air and fuel and hammering the rod bearings and pistons.

Higher rpm with the throttle cracked is a lower load condition on the engine on the power stroke. Sure, there is more rod stretch on the exhaust stroke, but at 1/2 red-line that is not a big deal.
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Spatten1
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Regarding the above post:

If you are at higher rpm at 75 miles per hour, the power to keep you there is spread out among more power strokes.

Running a higher vacuum condition at higher rpm means not as much explosive force is hitting the pistons on each power stroke.

With a low vacuum condition at low rpm, there is a huge downward force on slow moving pistons.

There is a point in the middle that is good, RPM not too low, and not too high.

I hope I am making some sort of sense here.
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Werewulf
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 01:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

for what its worth... ive owned about 12 harley twincam bikes... ive always got to have the latest thing to come down the tracks, which is why i have no money...when i heard about the 07s with the 6 speed that everyone was raving about, i bought not one roadking, but a dyna streetbob too... i put about 10k miles on one and 18k miles on the other... i was disapointed, over all.. it wasnt the panacea that id hoped for... not to mention the rattling noise that so many owners complained about... both bikes sold now, end of story..

(Message edited by werewulf on May 07, 2008)
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New12r
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 02:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

An R6 Cruises at 7k......
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Retrittion
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

An R6 is a completely different animal.
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Luxor
Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 05:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Point_Doc, Now I have a little time to respond properly.

First, STREET means street AND freeway, normal everyday riding OFF the RACE TRACK. SO when you hear someone say street they mean just that and no race tracks.

Second, look a little closer at the Baker site and you will see that the 6 Speed in question is for Tubers with the trap door transmission, NOT XBs.

Third, my post had zero hostility in it. I said I was on my soap box to be polite. My experience with machines is long and vast, from small engines at age 5 to full race car fabrication later on. Too much to mention in a thesis in fact. Not blowing my own horn, just fact. So, not sure why you took it the way you did because it wasn't meant as a personal insult.

Now, back on topic.
To the original poster. The only way I and others have found to change gearing on an XB is to convert to a chain that allows for final drive ratio changes. Other then that you'll get used to riding what seems to be high rpm, and it won't become an issue.
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