| Author | Message | ||
     Slitherin |
Need to ask a question about speed shifting. At the last track day I had a CR tell me that I needed to speed shift. I have always thought that speed shifting is bad for the trans. However I know all the jap bikes do it and I heard it may be better for them. I also heard that speed shifting on our bikes is bad due to the way the gears sync? I know that it was faster but I don't want to kill my bolt or have to rebuild. Is speed shifting ok? | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
The question for you is, if you miss a shift and grenade your tranny, is the CR going to pay for it??? I thought not... I know it can be done, but it is not the most recommended activity. | ||
| Punkid8888 |
Are you doing track days for fun or for competition? If you are competing then you might want every edge you can get to shaves millisecs. But if your having fun then who cares is you lap times are a sec or so slower. I run my bike at the drag strip for fun, I have not "speed" "power" "clutchless" shift, or what ever other word you can think of. I will agree thought that most liter bikes practically enjoy clutchless up shifts, I don't think my Buell appreciates it though (Message edited by punkid8888 on April 23, 2008) | ||
| Roadkingtrax |
You ride the Buell...CR doesn't. It is not healthy for the transmission to be shifted in that manner. The window is too small to shift it flawlessly. Besides,...do you want to walk around with a built up right hand and a weak left hand....? PULL IN THAT CLUTCH...it will put hair on your chest. | ||
| Ratyson |
I do clutchless upshifts quite often (not 1st to 2nd though, and NEVER downshift), and the shifting is as smooth as silk. No clanking, no grinding. Just a quick timed blip off the throttle as I shift, actually, it is more like just going neutral throttle as I am shifting. Works like a champ. Never had any problems. And when I change the tranny fluid, there is no evidence of extra wear. I'm not saying that you should or should not do this... Just giving you my side of the story. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I'm with Russ on this... It's not a regular occurance, but I speed shift often enough and it doesn't bother anything. It doesn't do much good unless you're hammering on it, though. I did on my Sportster and I do it on my Buell, both have yet to blow up. | ||
| New12r |
I clutchess up shift and down shift, 35k on my 04 bolt, 22k on the 06 uly. I ripped a bunch of teeth off a belt yesterday at Barber missing a shift using the clutch, that ended the use of the clutch for the rest of the day. | ||
| Blake |
Cutchless downshifting? No way! Really? I can't see how it's possible. Clutchless upshifting is gravy if you do it right. | ||
| Mr2shim |
Clutchless downshifting is possible. I did it when my cable broke. Smooth like butter. Stopping on the other hand......  Wouldn't think about doing it now. I don't like doing clutchless upshifts. XB doesn't seem to like it very much. | ||
| New12r |
Yup, a little blip of the throttle to rev match as you push down and smooth like silk!! The 1125 with a slipper clutch was better as the rear end did not get squirly. To be honest I cant believe I have not smoked a valve as I have banged off the rev limiter a bunch doing it. Especially at Barber yesterday. (Message edited by new12r on April 23, 2008) | ||
| Nik |
Clutchless downshifting is possible. I did it when my cable broke. Smooth like butter. Stopping on the other hand...... LOL Just shift into neutral at stops, then get a running start like you were bump starting it to get going then hop on and shift into second gear. ah the joys of old bikes... | ||
| Slaughter |
IF you MUST "speed shift" then just pay the money for the module and linkages and do it right. Yeah, you'll save maybe a few hundredths of a second per lap. http://halspa.com/PartDetail.asp?P=592 You CAN do clutchless upshifts without any difficulty. It's slower than with the module but doable. Downshifting CAN be done but it's really pretty dangerous at speed. I was racing after left hand surgery and tried it during practice and nearly binned the bike. I ended up using my whole left arm to pull in the clutch (no grip with the stitches and skin graft in the left hand) I'd recommend against downshifting without the clutch. (Message edited by slaughter on April 23, 2008) | ||
| Randomchaos |
Speed shifting is bad. Clutchless upshifting is not. Speed shifting is usually where you dont roll off the throttle, you just leave it pinned when you shift with the clutch. Clutchless is where you preload the tranny, and as you roll off the throttle it slides into the next gear. Ive done it many times on the bolt, and its super smooth. No clunks, grinds, just a nice soft click. Once you get used to it, it is extremely fast. I also find it easier to do since I dont have to worry about pulling in the clutch when in a full tuck. | ||
| Ratyson |
Heh, I just consider clutchless upshifting less wear and tear on the clutch cable.. lol. And the girls think it's hot! Yeah, yeah... that's it. | ||
| Slitherin |
Thanks for the input. I didn't think I would get much response. Yes, the goal is to have fun but the bigger picture is to start racing next year and as I'm working my way through NESBA for track days, I'm trying to take in all that I can from guys who have raced or still race while I'm doing it. I see from the responses that its a mixed bag of opinions. Although, nobody posted that they actually broke the trany by speed shifting. I guess if I'm worried about breaking it, I should stop using it on the track. | ||
| New12r |
I guess if I'm worried about breaking it, I should stop using it on the track. Yup, you better just quit riding it all together. | ||
| Blake |
What Random said; speed shifting is completely different from clutchless upshifting. And I agree with his advice too.  I've tried clutchless downshifting. I don't see how it could possibly work well in any situation. I've not tried it in a racing mode under hard deceleration though. | ||
| Randomchaos |
Personally, while dowshifting, I like using the clutch. Feels like I have a bit more control on making it a nice smooth transition so the suspension is ready to work the corner. I have had to downshift without a clutch before. Cable broke on me in the middle of town. It is not fun, and often times the rear was trying to lock up on me. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Speed shifting and clutchless shifting are the same thing. The terms are used interchangeably along with power shifting. Leaving the throttle pinned I don't think is really a shifting technique as it would serve no purpose except for an engine that was built specifically for it. You'd always over rev it, bounce it off the lmiter, etc. As a side note, the new Chevy Cobalt SS is using a technology called "no-lift shift", where you can in fact leave your foot planted in the gas pedal while you shift with the clutch. The purpose here is to keep the turbo boost charged up during the shift instead of losing it like you would if you had to let off the gas. But again, the computer and everything is designed around this and keep the car from over-revving. | ||
| Turk |
They are not all the same. Speed shifting and clutchless shifting are the same. Power shifting is leaving the throttle pinned, applying pressure to the shifter and quickly feathering the clutch to allow the shift to take place. If done properly, speed shifting is not any harder on any components (in fact easier on several further down the driveline) but power shifting can be a bit rough on the tranny and shouldn't be used unless you consider clutch plates to be disposable (which they are anyway, but at a much slower rate). | ||
| Zac4mac |
Semantics. I've always heard speed/power shifting to be the same and clutch-less is different. I blew a primary belt on my Shovelhead, power shifting it. Ripped almost all of the cleats off the belt. It's a no-no from now on. I clutch-less my 1125R when it's too cold to let go of the heated grips, works great. Zack | ||
| Randomchaos |
Yea, speed shifting = power shifting for me. Way I have always heard it called around here . | ||
| Turk |
Regardless of those semantics, clutchless does not equal power shifting. | ||
| Azxb9r |
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the upgrade to the trans. in 06. I have not ridden an older model, so I can't speak from experience, but the newer trans. is supposed to be smoother. Once in a while I do clutchless upshifts on my 07, it is smooth and no problem. | ||
| Blake |
"Speed shifting and clutchless shifting are the same. Power shifting is leaving the throttle pinned, applying pressure to the shifter and quickly feathering the clutch to allow the shift to take place." I'll go for that; it makes sense to me. | ||
| Bombardier |
Anytime you do something with any mechanical device that causes a mechanical shock to it you will have to pay for it somewhere/sometime. Accellerated wear or fatigue on components are the usual outcomes. If you are happy to include this possibility in you budget then go for it. If no then do not. | ||
| Slitherin |
Yes, the process I'm talking about (whatever you want to call it) is when you pre-load the shift lever and then let off the gas and let the shift happen. It is not as smooth as I would like but neither is a normal shift with the clutch. I've always not been a fan of the clank shifting the bolt but I've learned to live with it. |
