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Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through March 11, 2008 » Riddle me this... « Previous Next »

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Interex2050
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 09:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

2004 XB12R w/fresh engine rebuild and new battery
-does not start in the morning
-battery on charger all day
-in the evening starts up and travels 4 miles
-midway displays symptoms of intake leak
Idle goes haywire jumps around between 1500-2500rpm, and if blipped takes a while to settle down
-parked for 30 minutes
-fails to start
-old battery reinstalled (which was charged before being put into storage)
-trip back, again displays intake leak symptoms half-way through the 4mile journey back
-after arriving (not turning engine off...)
the following measurements taken across battery terminal at short intervals (maybe 10s intervals):
running with fan on full blast
~11.11V
~10.97V
~10.90V
ignition off fan still going full blast
~11.45V
~11.52V
~11.56V
ignition off fan off
~11.75V
~11.78V
ignition on fan off
~11.59V
~11.56V
~11.54V
ignition on fan off primed
~11.51V
~11.50V
~11.49V
-fails to start

So the battery is discharging when the engine is running...
Regulator failure?
Stator failure, again?
any more ideas?
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Brianb
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hung Starter?
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Citified
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is a way to test the stator, but, I let my service manual go wit the bike when I sold it.
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Interex2050
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I am pretty sure its not a hung starter, because I would be able to hear the starter motor clutch/gear screaming in pain...

I will test the stator, I will post results of the static test shortly
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Bad battery? Short circuit somewhere? Something is draining your battery in very short order.

My thinking is that a bad stator (faulty charging system) wouldn't kill the bike/battery that quickly I don't think.

Charge up your battery and let it sit overnight disconnected. Check its voltage in the morning. If voltage is 12.5+, then install battery and check voltage every half hour for a couple hours. Don't activate anything on the bike, no ignition, no lights, nothing.

If voltage stays at 12.5+, then disconnect the lighting circuit and repeat with ignition turned to "run" and kill switch turned to "run".

If that shows good, then get out your manual and follow the charging system diagnostics.
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Interex2050
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake,
There are two batteries that suffered the same fate...
The brand new battery, and my old battery which I charged up before putting it into storage a couple of days ago...

The static stator test checks out with flying colors...
resistance between each of the coils is
~0.5ohms
resistance to ground it infinite on highest resistance setting...

My guess that my regulator crapped out, or its associated wiring.

But then why would it only drain at such an expedited rate when running?

Perhaps the regulator has a failure such that when the alternator sends a current to it, it creates a low resistance circuit which rapidly drains the battery.

But then the question remains would a low battery cause the idle to up and be unstable?
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Sub65chris
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

when I was having my charging issues I went thru 3 batteries that were killed in very short order. It turned out to be a fuel pump power wire that was grounded out. I dont know, but when the battery got low the bike was all over the rev range like it was speeding up then dying then it would "catch" again and speed up. it was very weird. hope it helps
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Interex2050
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Chris,
Thanks for that piece of information...
I will mention it in the report which I will hand to the techs tomorrow morning.
best,
Peter
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Pwnzor
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

if you're not getting 14 volts across the battery terminals when the bike is running, then your stator is not doing it's job.
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Jos51700
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 11:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Basically, testing the charging system should sum up: 14.1-ish volts at the battery while running.

A severe intake leak would cause a very rich running condition. I'm wondering if the driveability issue is low-voltage related.
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Jimduncan69
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i am on my 3rd voltage reg, right now. it had several of the same symptoms you described. if i had to guess i would say it is your voltage reg, but keep in mind i am by no means technically savvy when it comes to working on bikes.
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Interex2050
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 12:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks guys
What I have now should be sufficient to give the techs a head start.
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Azxb9r
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

But then the question remains would a low battery cause the idle to up and be unstable?

The on board computer system is designed to operate within a certain voltage range. Anything outside that range(low or high) can cause driveability problems. Also, if battery voltage drops too low while cranking, it can skew the reference voltage and cause it to run poorly.
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Interex2050
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 01:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info...
I thought that could be the case, but then I thought that the ECU may have a built in regulator...

I really need to learn more about fuel injection systems...
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Punkid8888
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Do these bikes put out 14v at idle? most bikes require at least 2 or 3 thousand rpm before showing a full 14v charge. I think with no accessories on it should at least be a little higher then 12.6v (12.6 normal battery voltage) at idle. but with the fan headlight and other things going It might be in the 12v range at idle.
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Brumbear
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

a severe intake leak will cause your machine to run lean not rich and heat up extremely fast if you think you have an intake leak check it properly cause they can be vary BAD very quickly to an engine.
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