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Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through October 09, 2007 » Battery too far gone? Cant recharge while running? « Previous Next »

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Typeone
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

my 05 12S finally left me stranded yesterday, but i think the cause was simple, battery, have a question though...

scenario... nice lunch ride up north for ~45min, highway then slow traffic, off highway the fan is running real low. hot day, not normal.

continue riding, check engine lights up. confused i pull over with the bike off, attempt a restart and get the 'click of death' or as someone put it 'toy Uzi clicking'... battery is dead but i keep it on a tender almost always when i'm not riding. stock 05 battery though, so it was on my list to replace it.

get a jump (thanks lady from Virginia!!), bike finally fires up (after wasting myself trying to bump start the beast. F that!) i ride off thinking replace battery asap.... few miles later, bike totally craps out, engine light barely illuminated, walking the bike once again to a service station. portable charger gets it fired again but this time i only make it like a mile. then i stopped at another service station and left it on a rapid charger, it was sucking juice badly... once juiced, i blaze home and call to order a battery.

here's where the odd stuff comes in... battery load tested just fine at my local HD dealer (?) says nothing is wrong with it. i buy the new battery anyway (OEM replacement $71) and proceed to charge it this afternoon.

just did a test and the battery is fully charged. next was testing the charging system... ignition switch on, battery is draining... fire up the bike... battery is charging, immediately.

so long story for a short question BUT... can a battery get so weak that even though you tend it regularly (and get the green light its charged) can it just stop taking charging from the system or get below a certain point where the Buell system can't revive it while riding??? the load test PASS has me confused.

i dont want to be stranded this weekend but it looks to me like all is well, the battery is getting juice from the system on its own.

any thoughts?
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Leeaw
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 02:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I had a similar thing happen back on my M2. I replaced the battery thinking that was it. My bike would run all day long though, once started.

I finally diagnosed it to a faulty voltage regulator. Replaced that and no more problems.

Might want to check into that.
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Rah7777777
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

For sure sounds like your charging system.
If it took a dump while the engine was running, then your battery is probably not at fault.
check your charging system closer.
odds are your charging system pooped out and left your battery to run the bike, which drained it, causing the "uzi click".
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 03:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hmmm. How did you verify the battery was charging when you put it back on the bike?

It could have been bad contacts between the battery and cables, they can be sneaky that way. Not a big deal, as you say, replacing an 05 battery a reasonable thing to do at this point anyway.

I have a meter on mine that I watch while riding. The battery is still OK, but wearing out. I can see it in the "steady state" voltage when the engine is not running. The worse the battery gets, the lower the "standby" voltage goes.

The load test could have just been screwed up as well.
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Typeone
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

thanks for the responses... i'm hoping its not the VR or stator but not positive yet.

Reepicheep, once the new battery was charged off the bike I installed it then hooked up a multimeter to +/- and viewed the volts... saw 12.8v + which tells me the battery is charged. green light on my tender before installing too.

Same multimeter hooked up, ignition on but not running i see the volts dropping .01 almost each second. lights/blinkers/highbeam on its a steady drain. I let it drain down to low 12.something then fired the bike up...

Once idling the volts on the battery climb right up to 14.something ... another test, it climbed right back up to 13.9+
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Socalbueller
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Another thing to check is the connection from the VR to the main wiring harness. They do melt and could be causing an interment open circuit on you.

I have had every piece of the charging system fail on me in 5000 to 7000 mile intervals.
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Typeone
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

More investigation, you're right Socalbueller...

Took some time to check all the connectors in front of the pulley. Everything looked good BUT, the Voltage Regulator connector had a tiny bit of melted plastic. Just a splotch. No crazy melting but definitely got hot enough to form a small ball of plastic on one side of the pins.

This is on the red (positive) wire from the VR connector which looks to go to the battery fuse. No damage to fuse.

Could the jump from the running SUV have spiked the current and caused this? That's the only weird electrical thing i've done to my bike is use that SUV for juice when i was stranded yesterday. I cringed when i told her to go ahead and start the truck. we weren't getting enough juice otherwise.
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Rays
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 06:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Typeone - have a look at this thread on Big, Bad & Dirty.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/309193.html?1191497782

The last post there has a link to a document that I put together to guide someone through dismantling, cleaning and ensuring the VR output connections are tight.
Might not be your issue but I wouldn't mind betting more than one VR has been replaced because of this.
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Typeone
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rays, thank you for that link. That connector (77) is the one with the slightly-melted plastic on the positive side. I'm going to clean it up as you describe in that doc. Curious if i'll escape a bad VR by the skin of my teeth... yeah, right. hahaa.

BadWeb never ceases to amaze me, appreciate the input so far
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1324
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sounds like a very similar problem I had on my SV650 last year. After systematic trial and error, it turned out to be the regulator/rectifier. These things are designed in such a way that they regulate voltage by converting 'excess' current into heat and dissipating through the R/R. Honestly, I never figured cooling capacity would be an issue on the Buell, given it's location...but I guess given the right combination of riding conditions and environment, this could happen.

The good news is that if the R/R is bad, you aren't locked into using a Buell replacement part. R/R's are pretty standard and you can retro fit 'nearly' anyone you can get your hands on. Personally, I had GREAT success with Honda CBR600RR VRs in the past.

The only reason I mentioned changing the RR though is because if the harness is melting, that implies that the RR is not dissipating enough heat and the wiring is left to do that. I'm no electrical engineer, but my first guess would be to increase wire size to see if this helps....just my uninformed $0.02 though.
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Xb12rene
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I had the same happen to me. Of course I started reading the knowledge vault, and I got the impression that the charging system had to be bad too.
But after checking the voltages with the ECMSPY software and getting some input from 1 of the creators of the software I only bought a new battery and after 1500 miles everything is still working as it should.

So I guess the Battery can get bad to a point there the bike can't keep the charge up.
Hope that helps
Rene
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Typeone
Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 07:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

XB12rene, did you see any melted plastic on your connector?

I'm going to clean up my connector (77) per Rays doc and check all the voltages using the manual but what voltages did you check in ECMSpy? I only see BAS, Battery, EGO and TPS... i need to read more than those, no?

Speaking of the ECM... i continue to see a trouble code for a ground connection on the coil front but a lot of times it stays in history. i clear it but i see it again. ive been thinking this was an old code that wont clear itself for some reason but maybe its not. i replaced the plug wire a while ago when i saw an arch on the front plug wire to frame. havent seen it since but that code wont dissapear fully. sometimes its there when i read the DTCs and sometimes not.

(Message edited by typeone on October 06, 2007)
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Typeone
Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Update... today I picked up a new voltage regulator, cleaned up my female connectors per Rays instructions and installed everything. Did the same test with bike off and bike on... battery is charging as normal.

Just took a test run and all seems good again! Finger's x'd I don't see this issue come back ALTHOUGH, my low-beam headlight went out just before I got home, high-beam works fine. praying thats a freek coincidence and just needs a bulb replacement due to age.
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Sneth
Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

bike have generators, not alternators...
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Xb12rene
Posted on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 12:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sorry for being late, but school has me very much occupied these days.

I used the megasquirt logviewer, after creating a log file, to view the data.
There is a field battery voltage, check that with respect to rpm. It should grow as the rpm go up, but it should never go over 16-17V (if yes it could be a broken regulator). I adopted that from the service book procedures, as at the time I didn't had the tools to perform the tests.
I also sent my logfile to Gunther and he said the data looks o.k., only during start up the voltage drops to much (down to 10V). He suggested to only change the battery.

ECMSPY has some trouble with the trouble codes, so read them also with the "blinking engine light" method. I also had the trouble code 23 (front ignition) shown in ECMSPY, but after checking, it was a code for the exhaust valve actuator. It looks like my emulator for it is broken.

I had some melted plastic, but it was only on the outside, so I just cleaned the connectors.

I'm happy for you that you got it running again.

Have fun
Rene
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