| Author | Message | ||
     Luxor |
First, I have checked the KV for 3 days in search of a solution to my problem, not one mention of my symptoms. So I am asking here(more traffic). Ok, 03 XB9S, 8500mi. I have developed a very annoying and extremely sporadic squeak coming from somewhere near the oil pump. Now I can't say for sure what it is because it is so limited I can't track it before it disappears. The sound is like a bearing race being spun on a shaft. The problem mainly occurs after a good long ride, I park the bike for 15 mins, start it up and the squeak is there, for just a moment, maybe 10 secs and it goes away. It only does it under these conditions. I have replaced my ramp, ramp balls, and primary guide thinking it could be one of those. But no joy, the damn thing still squeaks. Help, anyone have any ideas at all? | ||
| Wantxbr |
Muffler loose? | ||
| Lukeduke |
Is it speed sensitive, rpm sensitive or neither? | ||
| Luxor |
Neither. It will only do it when I start the bike after it's warm. I've increased throttle, no change in the sound, I shift through the gears, no change in sound. It's never done it while rolling. Thats what gets me. If it were a bearing you'd think it would get worse under load(riding). Again, I am baffled here. I have been a tech for a long time and this little squeak doesn't follow the rules. I should add the squeak can also be described as a loose v-belt squeak like you hear on a car. (Message edited by luxor on September 06, 2007) | ||
| Cataract2 |
Does it do it when your pushing your bike back and forth after a ride? | ||
| Reepicheep |
The 5th gear drive assembly can do that... but if it is, you probably don't want to know it... thats a "split the case" scenario on an XB when that fails. Note that squeak does not necessarily mean fail, it might just need some better lubrication. If you really want to know, remove the belt, put the bike in neutral, and turn the front sprocket by hand on a cold engine. It'll feel crunchy or catchy if that is the problem. I think there is also a quad seal you could remove to inspect, and an end cap on the hollow shaft you can pop off to see the needle bearings inside there (which are probably the ones most likely to fail). | ||
| Luxor |
Well, my worst fears are coming true. Seems to be the trans making the noise. The squeal is coming from the cap right behind the idler pulley. UUHHMMM, UURRGHH, I REALLY don't feel like a total rebuild, but, I guess I have no choice. At least I have my 12 to ride, but I like the 9 better. I guess the part that pisses me off the most is that it only has 8500mi on it. Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it.  | ||
| 1324 |
Does it do it when your pushing your bike back and forth after a ride? Mine does this sometimes...tell me what you know! I've just assumed that it was the drive belt on the sprockets, but then again, I've only owned it for 2.5 months.} | ||
| Luxor |
"Does it do it when your pushing your bike back and forth after a ride?" No, mine will only do it when it's running. 1324, don't worry, yours sounds like an idler pulley, in which case it's not a major issue. Mine on the other hand seems to be the right side countershaft bearing which is VERY serious. | ||
| Luxor |
I am totally confused right now. I just serviced the primary and drained all fluid. I was using HD Formula+, it was squealing. Switched to 20w40 syn3 and viola, no more noise. I am going to ride the hell out of it tomorrow and see what happens. I must add that the bike has always shifted very smooth. And other then the squeal has been a jewel to own. I'll keep you guys informed, and thanks again for the ears. | ||
| Tunes |
Since were talking about an '03 XB9S... I have a question. My fan does not and has not turned on while riding but comes on immediately when I turn the bike off. I find this odd. Bike has 10K miles. I've owned it for 3 months. Otherwise, the bike runs great. Any ideas? | ||
| Brent_crossbronkos |
Tunes: do a search on fan operation - has been many posts about such. Your bike sounds normal for a 9. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That needle bearing gets poor (no) lubricant circulation, and can accumulate moisture. If its just a squeak, and not a crunch, it could have just been some surface rust on the needle bearings and races. You could pop that little cap off and give it a good flushing with WD-40 (which will then go into your tranny, so you might then want to change that fluid). Then, you can either pack good grease in there (which I would worry would still accumulate moisture, but at least it would stay there) or just lube from the tranny (lean the bike over to the right side sometimes so it can soak in there). My bearing on the Cyclone that was there failed, and ran as a plain bearing for a few thousand miles. Even with that kind of catastrophic failure (I have pictures in the knowledge vault), the transmission output shaft was *almost* salvagable. I replaced it to be safe. It wasn't cheap, but it was not terrible either ($80?). So if in doubt, I would keep riding it until you are really sure it has failed (crunchy or has some play), rather then rush to split the cases. The difference between doing it sooner versus later is under $100, which I have to guess would be less then 1/5th the cost of a more proactive repair. | ||
| Tunes |
I've read many, many discussions (probably all of them) about fan operation. My XB12S runs hotter than my 9 and the fan does come on when I'm riding. However, the fan on my 9 does not come on when I'm riding. I have no way of knowing if my 9's fan is operating normally or not other than compare it to my 12. Hence the question. The KV is not helpful. | ||
| Xring |
(Sorry to contribute to a thread hijack,but) the fan operation on my 2004 XB9S sounds just like your 2003. In my 12000+ miles on the bike, I've only been aware of the fan coming on when riding once or twice; anything over a 15-minute ride it comes on when I turn the bike off. Bill | ||
| Reepicheep |
(bringing it back around....) So your point is you should be careful not to get your fingers in the fan when you are looking at bearing issues in the 5th gear drive assembly | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
My 2003 squeaks while pushing it back out of the garage. Especially if it sits a while. I'm assuming a small amount of rust that Reep talks about. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Could be the belt on the pulley as well... thats more likely. Unless it does it after you remove the belt | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Actually, you may be right. The noise is coming from the pully area. Thanks man! | ||
| Luxor |
UPDATE.. The clutch, it's the damn clutch. I have yet to disassemble(waiting on my spring compressor)and inspect the exact problem. But again, after many hours of diag it's the clutch. I am a happy guy now, at least I know what the problem is. Thanks for all your input guys, very much appreciated. | ||
| Sparky |
You were using Formula + and had the noise? Hmmm, I've heard from a couple sources that Formula + is not ideal oil for an 03 XB trans. That oil is ideal for the later trans with helical gears. The local HD/B dealer recommends Sport Trans or better yet Syn3 for the 03 XB's trans. Hopefully your problem is something simple like the throwout bearing. | ||
| 1324 |
^^^Really? The PO of my bike used Mobil 1 in the primary, so I changed it to Formula + to avoid the stator issues. Was this not a good idea for an 03? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good news! | ||
| Luxor |
I will be using Syn3 after the rebuild for sure. Part of the diag was a fluid change from Formula+ to Syn3, the Syn3 made a huge difference. It was alot less prone to squeak with the Syn3. I'll keep you guys informed as to what I find and make a log of damaged parts. | ||
| Elf |
Interesting. So the Formula+ isn't REALLY for the '03 - '05 primaries/transmissions? My dealer recommended that's what I use! I noticed the shifting being a little "crunchier" with it. I just put a fresh quart of it in there, too! Should I just use Mobil 1 20-50 Synth. or pony up for the big 'ol jug of Sport-Trans that the dealer carries? | ||
| Spatten1 |
They say the Mobil 1 burns up Buell stators. | ||
| Jlnance |
Spatten1 - Thats Mobil 1 gear lub, not Mobil 1 engine oil that hurts stators isn't it? | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Yes, it has been reported that the M1 gear lube can potentially cause premature stator failure. | ||
| Elf |
I was referring to the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20-50 M.O. not the Gear Lube - sorry for the confusion. I'm just curious, as the P.O. of my '04 put Amsoil in the engine, but never mentioned what was in the primary. I have since lost his number, so I can't contact him to ask. Since I put the Formula+ in there, I've noticed that gear changes when hot can be "crunchy". They're smooth when the engine's cool. Could it be just the oil heating up and thinning out (and I need to adjust the clutch again...  )? I'm beginning to regret changing out whatever was in there (even though it was absolutely FILTHY!), because it shifted better! I'll bet it was the original Sport-Trans. The bike had about 5400 miles on it when I got it, and I always change the tires and fluids whenever I buy a used vehicle. Gives me peace of mind, I guess... Any ideas? | ||
| Spatten1 |
It's great to see the 1125 will have a clutch that can be serviced with normal hand tools. One more idiotic Harley design that is a PITA to work on out the door! | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'm just using regular 20-50 Castrol engine oil now. It worked fine on my other bikes in the engine and tranny combo, hope it's OK for here. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Elf, Dump a bottle of Formula+ in there and see how it goes. Inexpensive troubleshooting. | ||
| Ccryder |
Back in 2000, on my 99' S3T I had and primary seal failure and, at the same time a primary adjuster shoe failure (I'm sure I could dredge up the pictures).  I was running Redline and the inside of the primary was coated in this pink goo that made Redline such a good primary lube but, not good for stators because it coated the windings and held in the heat. Back in 2001, on my 00' X3 (X1) I had a stator failure. It failed as AL had mentioned where the leads went behind the plate to keep them out of the primary chain. I ran Mobil 1 gear lube for the full 34k miles I owned the X3. My point is, no one has proved that Mobil 1 gear lube is at fault for stator failures. The only thing that has been proved is that these engines have stator failures. In my business I process millions of TONS of magnet wire a year into electric motors. These motors are exposed to some really harsh environments with freon and lubricating oil. The failures we see are due to vibration and turn-turn shorting. Once this begins you get a localized hot spot and the insulation starts degrading. We actually have one environment where there is H2S and this is VERY bad for yellow metals. In order to get around this issue we fully encapsulate the stators (WHAT A PAIN!!!) My point to all of this is do not condem Mobil 1, Syn3, or any other lubricant based on your interpretation of some marketing "doublespeak". After all, they are out there to protect their own corporate A$$! That being said, what does the "Mother-Co" recommend for an 04' XB12r? After I find that out I will make my own best judgment on what feels and acts the best in my tranny/ primary. Is it time to ride yet?????????????? Neil S. |
