| Author | Message | ||
     Macbuell |
What was the point of the development and time and money Buell spent on that bike? I really did not see much trickle down from that bike to the air cooled XB12's. Maybe they are waiting for another day and didn't want to take anything away from the debut of the 1125R ... but what was the point of producing an air-cooled engine that produced 150RWHP if you're not going to use some of that development on a more powerful air-cooled XB street engine. Lets just say as happy as I am to see a competitive liquid cooled Buell I am equally surprised that we didn't see something more significant on the air-cooled side. | ||
| Barker |
RR cam cover made it to all of the 08 bikes excpet the B-last. | ||
| 45_degrees |
I agree Macbuell... although I do really like the new 1125R, and I want one, I am a bit disappointed with the lack of big performance upgrades for the XB line. I was hoping to see more rpm and power. In fact, I was almost sure of it!  | ||
| 45_degrees |
Oh wait... I see now the 12 has a bit higher rev limit... And they incorporated some other good stuff from the RR... maybe we have yet to see the XB13R later this year!  It would be the one to choose for MAXIMUM torque (maybe around 100+ ft./lbs... a reason to choose it over the new 1125R. | ||
| Sparky |
XBRR trickle down on the airheads is noted in this post. Most of the improvements are internal. There's a news release at buell.com. To recap: oil pump fixed, rev limit on 1200 increased to 7100 rpm from 6800 rpm, progressive throttle cam, crank position sensor, more Robust Crankpins (The size of the crankpins is increased to 1.50 inches from 1.25 inches), idle air control (computer can control idle speed), new eight-row oil cooler offers enhanced cooling performance, all oil line ends are now equipped with Jiffy-tite fittings, new DDFI 3 ECM (a new ECM with increased computing capacity) -- DDFI 3 actively controls and monitors the TPS (throttle position sensor), IAC (idle air control), and timing. DDFI 3 automatically zeros the TPS and adjusts fuel metering for smoother idle, eliminating service intervals and reducing the cost of ownership. A new progressive throttle cam and new throttle cables provide smoother throttle input from stops, and less rotation to full throttle. Proof that Racing improves the Breed! | ||
| Macbuell |
I saw that and am aware of all the minor changes and tweaks made to the engine based on the XBRR. But there was no increase in the overall power and performance in the engine and that is what is surprising to me. Horsepower and torque ratings are the same. | ||
| Tpoppa |
If these are all the improvements that will trickle down from the XBRR...they seem quite modest. Building 50+ XBRR's and marketing them as a competitive racers does not seem like the most financially efficient way to achieve these gains. I don't think the XBRR was as competitive or reliable as Buell (or any of us) had hoped. I am curious to see if we hear anything else from the XBRR, or if Buell abandons it & focuses their $$'s elsewhere. | ||
| The_new_guy |
Wouldn't an XB13S be cool! | ||
| 45_degrees |
XB13S... really cool! | ||
| Johntman |
If they upped the redline from 6800 to 7100 wouldn't the hp numbers go up too. I thought hp was still climbing at 6800 that was just the valve train limit. If this is true the extra 300 rpm should be worth what 4 or 5 more hp? or am i totaly wrong? | ||
| Blake |
Or just more usable rev range at that higher power level... which means more faster acceleration. The 1/4 mile times should come down significantly. What some folks see as minor... ain't! The new oil pump drive and oiling system is a HUGE improvement! The other stuff ain't peanuts either... no more manual/shop TPS reset required! A new engine management/EFI computer system that is more powerful and has 15 times better accuracy in crank position sensing. This may be black box hidden stuff, but it is some serious/major upgrading. Geesh. | ||
| Macbuell |
I understand where you are coming from Blake but I think most everyone is missing my point. I expected, at least at some point, an air-ccoled engine based off the XBRR that had a nice boost in power. While they added some nice pieces for the XBRR to the standard 12 motor, it's still the same 12 motor. I find it hard to believe that they spent all that time and money developing an air cooled v-twin engine that puts 150 horses to the ground and have only the parts you mentioned make it to a production engine. It doesn't make sense. Are they basically saying that, while we learned some things, the XBRR engine platform was a failure and we aren't going to develop anything around it. I don't know but I'm surprised that we didn't see something more significant from that effort. Maybe it's still in the works ... who knows. The 1125R is obviously a great bike but I don't think it's for me. An air-cooled XB with 115-120 RWHP though would have me fishing in my pocket for my check book. | ||
| Jwhite601 |
You'll have to wait till next yr for that, Macbuell. So go ahead and save your pennys. | ||
| Jwhite601 |
Wasn't the RR a 6 speed too, now that would be nice. | ||
| Metalstorm |
I think the improvements to the XB is pretty major as far as durability, reliability and ridability are concerned. So do the 08 XBs run in constant closed loop like the 1125R? Would that mean an end to the low speed herky jerks that the pre 08 XB12s suffer while they fluctuate between open & closed loop? (Message edited by metalstorm on July 10, 2007) | ||
| Jkhawaii |
really did expect a engine based off the RR. poor XB12RR only had a year or two before being pretty much retired. I'm thinking the XBRR showed the limits of the current engine configuration and in the end it was not enough. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I wonder if any of the new XB stuff can be fitted to earlier models? | ||
| Blake |
Aside from the first four dealerships to get their XBRRs in time for Daytona last year, the XBRR has been racing for one year and it is doing well, winning five of the last five Pro-Twins events in France, a race at Daytona, an endurance race at Road America and finishing the Daytona 200 this year thanks to Walt Sipp and crew. The XBRR ain't dead. It is just now coming into its own. Increasing the rev limit by 300 ain't chicken feed. That amounts to a significant improvement to performance. Maybe next year we'll get a big bore 1200cc XB based upon the XB9 stroke and slightly smaller bore XBRR cylinders. I'd be all over that myself. (Message edited by blake on July 12, 2007) | ||
| Hughlysses |
I wonder if any of the new XB stuff can be fitted to earlier models? That's been mentioned in a couple of other threads. Unfortunately, it doesn't look practical. For instance, to change to the new improved oil pump, you'd also have to change to the new crank position sensor, which means you'd have to change the primary cover, primary sprocket, and alternator, and you'd probably have to use the new ECM to interpret the signal from it, which means you'd have to switch to the new fuel injection system, wiring harness, etc. It appears that the upgrades work together very closely such that you'd pretty much have to fit all of them or none. | ||
| Ericz |
The crank sensor mounts in the left engine case so that would be a bear to retro fit. The Oil fittings are much different and would require some serious re-plumbing of the oil lines for the pump to work! You would have to change the whole crankshaft since that is what the crank sensor reads off of and by that time, you will say, "Man, I should have bought a new 2008 engine!" The improvements are great and I really look forward to see how the new DDFI 3 will work out!! |
