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Fd2blk
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have a problem with my 1to 2 shift wanting to grind when ever the bike gets hot. I am at a loss and have tried all the fixes I could find in the knowledge vault. The primary chain has been adjusted, the clutch has been adjusted, I took all the slack out of the shift lever and tried two Different oils, (Harley and Mobil One. I used 28 Oz'z of oil filled right to the bottom spring with the bike level. I have the tension set at 1/2" according to the manual this should be correct, any new ideas or suggestions would be of great help, Thanks
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Skully
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hey Paul,

I have that problem too. Let me know if you figure out what to do about it.

Keith
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Good. I thought you were being stalked by a transvestite.

What a relief it's only transmission problems.
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M1combat
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

1/2" when it's hot, warm or cold?

I have always used one full quart but I level the bike while draining the oil.


Due to the fact that this happens when hot I would guess that the chain is a tad too tight. I'd loosen it a bit and see how that works.

You know the "jagged" part that you see when looking in the clutch cover? Not the teeth for the primary chain, but the part that guides the clutch plates... I generally fill to where the oil is just getting to that when level.

One more thing... The XB needs to be shifted like you mean it, especially from one to two. It's a pretty rugged transmission and it like to be treated as such.
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Cycleaddict
Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

my 'o3 does that "grind" thing on the first to second shift, at first i thought it was one of those "if you have to ask ,you would'nt understand " things ! but after growing up on european dirt bikes it just "seems" noormal ?
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Spatten1
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

my 'o3 does that "grind" thing on the first to second shift

Ditto.
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 12:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Might try an ergonomic adjustment, move the foot lever down a quarter inch or so. This gives more leverage in the upshift.
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Etennuly
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 12:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I've made mine do that a couple of times by shifting too slow. It seems that it is hanging in neutral as I let the clutch lever come out and drags the gears going into second.

Sometimes I get a little slow and lazy.
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M1combat
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 01:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Not a bad suggestion Blake...
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Skully
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Might try an ergonomic adjustment, move the foot lever down a quarter inch or so. This gives more leverage in the upshift.

It's not a shifter leverage or a position issue. I've changed every variable that I can think of - clutch adjustment (cable and at the clutch itself), chain tension, fluid level, shifter position, and still, it refuses to shift without gear clash in three out of five shifts.
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Fd2blk
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks for help but it looks like we took similar approaches to trouble shooting this

"Quote" 1/2" when it's hot, warm or cold?"Quote"

It was done cold and this is the loose side of the spec
"Quote"
Due to the fact that this happens when hot I would guess that the chain is a tad too tight. I'd loosen it a bit and see how that works. "Quote"

It Started out with way to much slack, just Over 1" and had the same problem.

"Quote" You know the "jagged" part that you see when looking in the clutch cover? Not the teeth for the primary chain, but the part that guides the clutch plates... I generally fill to where the oil is just getting to that when level. "Quote

Yes and level that was right at 28" Oz'z

"Quote"
One more thing... The XB needs to be shifted like you mean it, especially from one to two. It's a pretty rugged transmission and it like to be treated as such. "Quote"

I shift hard any way, to many track days in the past but I have tried all variations of shifting with no affect
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Fd2blk
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Quote"
Might try an ergonomic adjustment, move the foot lever down a quarter inch or so. This gives more leverage in the upshift"Quote"

I have it adjusted so far down now trying to remove a slack it is actually causing me to point my foot to far down. I am going to move it back up today because it did not help and it is now to the point of being uncomfortable
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Fd2blk
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Quote"
It's not a shifter leverage or a position issue. I've changed every variable that I can think of - clutch adjustment (cable and at the clutch itself), chain tension, fluid level, shifter position, and still, it refuses to shift without gear clash in three out of five shifts."Quote"

I agree with this and am at my Wits end but I do notice first thing in the morning it seems fins, I am going to try using the same oil I use in the motor as a last resort, I read a couple of post that state it helps, and will post my results BTW keep the comments coming
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4cammer
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I find that I have the same issue late in the ride, or riding home after a full day of work (33 mile commute). My '07 9R seems to shift better earlier in the ride, or on my way to work, and I have figured out that part of the issue w/the 1-2 "clunk" in the shift is that I am tired and just not executing the shift as well as when I am fresh.
Also, if I short shift at 3000-3500 instead of 5K she will clunk, but at 5K she shifts like butter.

I am going to reposition the lever today along w/some other things as it is raining here in the Chicago area...
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Buellinachinashop
Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have an 03 S and I too have noticed hard shifting from 1-2, leave it in Neutral alot, but I don't get a "clunk" until I down shift from 2-1.

One thing's for sure, Harley designed a tranny that just about garuntees that people wont be riding these things with sandals or flip-flops. Anything less than leather shoes/boots will leave the top of your foot sore
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Punkid8888
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 11:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I too think the bike shifts a lot easier in the morning when its cold. after an hour or two I realize I need a little more effort to shift. I find the worst shift is the 2 to 1 downshift. I have numerous times thought I was in first only to findout it was still in second.

I also notice if I wear my sneakers It shifts horrible, but if I wear my boots It shifts good.
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Barker
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I switched to GP (inverted) shifting pattern. It is a lot easier to push the bike from 1 to 2 than it is to pull it from 1 to 2.

GP shift is a 2 minute mod.
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Fd2blk
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ok,
Latest update, Changed from Mobil 1 Synth. Gear oil to V-Twin 20-W50 and the problem is exactly the same. I also re-checked the primary chain tension. I like the idea of the GP shift but am going to wait till I get back from Deals Gap so I don't kill myself before I get used to the reverse shifting. One more note of concern is the Mobil 1 I pulled out had less then 400 miles on it and I could see quite a bit of silver particles in the Oil.
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Brumbear
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It sounds like syncro problems if it applies here I don't know what the trans looks like inside either a z carrier issue or brass syncro could be caused by no clutch shifting

No synchros in Buell transmissions.

(Message edited by blake on June 25, 2007)
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M1combat
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't think a sequential trans has syncros???

The GP shift is great : ), but yeah.... give yourself a good deal of time to get used to it if you've been riding a while ;).


Hmmm... If you've tried a number of adjustments I'd say that you're probably not being forceful enough.
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Djkaplan
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The only way I could get rid of the second gear 'cruch-clash-clack' on my tuber was to replace the 2nd and 3rd countershaft gears (the gears that have the engagement dogs for the 1st to 2nd shift). An easy R&R on a tuber, but a major hassle on an XB because the only way to get to the gearset is to split the cases.
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Fd2blk
Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Quote"
The only way I could get rid of the second gear 'cruch-clash-clack' on my tuber was to replace the 2nd and 3rd countershaft gears (the gears that have the engagement dogs for the 1st to 2nd shift). An easy R&R on a tuber, but a major hassle on an XB because the only way to get to the gearset is to split the cases."Quote"

I think your solution is probably the one I feel is the correct one but I will wait until it gets much worse before I decide to drop the motor and crack the case. I am hoping the GP shifting will allow for greater leverage and buy me a little more time, cause trust me it is not a mater of me not shifting hard enough
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Spatten1
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Fd2blk: Nice classic Metallica reference.
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Scottsts
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

1-2 upshift clunk and occasional grind. Yup, I get it too.
I find short shifting 1st is the only way to avoid the grind. It still clunks though.
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Dentguy
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

fd2blk...You could have a problem with worn dog rings, shift drum, forks, etc. But, before you dig in and I know you said you wanted to hold off on that for now, I would too. You can check the ramp assembly where the cable hooks up in the side cover to make sure the ramps or the balls are not worn. That sounds funny. Also you could pull apart the clutch and check the inner hub and drum where the plates ride for wear. when they get worn it can hang up the plates and not let the clutch release fast enough making it hard to shift. I don't know if anyone talked about this already. Just some thoughts..Good luck with it.
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Xb9
Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

it's inherent in the beasts. Just shift the crashbox and let it grind.

(Message edited by xb9 on June 26, 2007)
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Thunderheart69
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Guy's, take your bikes to a GOOD dealer and have the cases split. Mine did this for months until it finally trashed other parts in the outter primary section on the shift mech area on the drum. My bike is at pensacola harley/buell and is getting new tanny cases,drive gears, shift forks, oil pump, piston rings, probably a new stator and voltage regulator because elec system is fried.I don't believe thats all the parts either. I tried every super dupper slick and expensive I could find to improve shifting quality. After a while no 2nd during speed shifting. Had a tendency to slide right out of gear at "All" STEADY rpms and nuetral would light up.If you guys are curious enough, call mike the service manager and ask him what he found.I only ride it like I stole it and no stunts because I'm big and dumb with no desire to stunt......I like to scraaaaaapppeee!!!! I do speed shift a little and he says this is hard on the forks and such.....He mentioned a crack in the case in the bearing area around the primary shaft area? I could be wrong about that but a serious crack was found in a bearing area inside the tranny. Take your bikes to a good dealer who cares and has sporster racing and building knowledge to go with it.I also think the windings in the alternator are shorted too because of resin brake down. synthetics are hard on most resins used for bonding of alternator windings. This would cause the windings to walk out, touch, and short out. I believe there is a thread on this somewhere from a guy out west maybe cali or something.Also I use Brisk sparkplugs Part#BOR-14LGS. They prevent detonation in Phoenix even in hot weather and better milage.
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Spatten1
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

After a while no 2nd during speed shifting.

Dear G-d! This is a Harley transmission, you can't do that. I never even clutchless shifted at the race track. Seriously, I don't think the design allows for clutchless shifting without hammering the forks and drum.

Dude, you've had more trouble with your bike than me. I stopped the "ride it like you stole it" after having to tear mine down this winter. Now I ride it like a 40 year old that bought it. So far so good.
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Fd2blk
Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 02:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Quote"
fd2blk...You could have a problem with worn dog rings, shift drum, forks, etc. But, before you dig in and I know you said you wanted to hold off on that for now, I would too. You can check the ramp assembly where the cable hooks up in the side cover to make sure the ramps or the balls are not worn. That sounds funny. Also you could pull apart the clutch and check the inner hub and drum where the plates ride for wear. when they get worn it can hang up the plates and not let the clutch release fast enough making it hard to shift. I don't know if anyone talked about this already. Just some thoughts..Good luck with it."Quote"

Great ideas, I pulled the ramp assy apart this weekend and did a good inspection and all looked good. I did notice the ramp assy had one spot that looked like a bad casting on the right side. The assy is a complete circle except one flat spot you can tell it is cast that way but man it looks rough

See the flat spot of Part 7
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Scottsts
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So how long before my tranny grenades?
My '05 City grinds and/or clunks on 1-2 shifts and the bike has 3600 miles on it.
It's all part of Buell ownership, huh?
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Spatten1
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't think it means you will have a problem.

It will not shift like a Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Ducati, Triumph, Mamoth Munch, Vincent, Osa, Aprilia, KTM, Jawa, etc.

It is a HD derived tranny, don't worry about grinding from 1-2. I think it is normal.
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07xb12scg
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

IMO there is a difference between a clunky transmission and a grinding transmission. Mine clunks, but it does not grind when shifting from 1st to 2nd.

The odd thing is that it seems that the clunk has gotten louder after switching from petroleum oil to Syn3.

(Message edited by 07xb12scg on June 28, 2007)

(Message edited by 07xb12scg on June 28, 2007)
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Spatten1
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, but your bike has an upgraded transmission. Ours are closer to the Sporster.
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Cycleaddict
Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

yeah, i refer to my trans.('03) as a "krunchmission". as long as i use the clutch it's only o.k.
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Djkaplan
Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Lots of bikes clunk really badly going into second, even Japanese bikes. The clunk is more a function of the heavy rotational mass of the engine than it is a Harley transmission. Listen to some V-Stroms and the larger inline bikes, some of them sound much worse than the average Harley or Buell. Some bikes of the same model are just more clunky than others too. I know lots of tuber and XB owners with slick, quiet transmissions - they all aren't clunky.

I wouldn't worry unless you started missing gears and blowing shifts consistently... that's when it'll be time to go in.
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