| Author | Message | ||
     Bombardier |
I am looking to put these bad boys on my new 12R and was wondering if anyone has the 90inch set on their bike? | ||
| Hogs |
Well Bombardier, I have been wanting to do this for the past year or more now, But I think you will find there are fueling plms. and Ignition plms. that have NOT been dealt with yet, seems putting this kit on the xb9`s is NOt bad but to take the 12 way out there creates plms. I hope some can prove me WRONG on this????  | ||
| Bombardier |
Thanks Hogs. No willing to risk it on my own with a new ride. I'll wait. Why does it work on the 9 and not the 12? | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I built a 90 inch XB12 making 117 at the rear wheel. Micron pipe, American Sport Bike Open air box, Direct link Tuning. Contact Brian to see the dyno plot. ... There were a few issues once I bumped the fuell pressure up to 450 kPa, but I got it worked out. I am still having a few issues with the 1208 XB9, but will get it as soon as I get my new dyno and I have time to finish it. It is making 111 at the rear wheel and if I could increase the rev limit the 90 mwould make 125 or so and the 1208 115+ (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on May 30, 2007) | ||
| Bombardier |
Was that using the revperf barrels? Did you have to machine the cases to make them fit? How does the bike handle the power with regards the belt and vibrations? I know I am all questions but I do not want to be stuck anywhere. | ||
| Glitch |
Did you have to machine the cases to make them fit? Anything above 1050cc for an XB9, or above 1250cc for an XB12 needs the cases bored. How does the bike handle the power with regards the belt and vibrations? The bike ought to be fine with up to 150HP+. Just a little clarification from a friend.  (Message edited by Blake on June 08, 2007) | ||
| Hogs |
Buelldyno_guy, Please fill us in on the 90"er, Which Fuel Injectors have you used, what about a fuel Pressure Regulator, Larger Throttle Body, Stock Engine case Bearings, How about Lifters,roller rocker arms,pushrod kit,Cams, And yes Head work??? So your just using a stock ecm/race ecm , mapped in with Direct Link? How many Thousand Street Miles you got on this 90 kit so far?? You mentioned Horsepower, More interested in Torque Numbers what may that be at what rpms.. since You have Dyno tune this?? Theres alot to do as one can see to a 12 to make this work have heard of some through shops that have tried and were NOT Happy campers with the results... Now on the 9`s yes still alot of work ,However all I can gather is taking a 9 up to the 1250 or so,..  well most of the stock gear will work as one is only going the 50 cc`s more or less from what the 12 is all ready... Yes the map will have to be Dialed in etc. But the rest is not as big of a plm. going to the Huge displacement from 1203 to 1500.. Now I hope alot will chime in here and prove me wrong as I would Love to make the 1200 to the 1450/1500 as long as it not Just meant to be RACE and then tore down for rebuild Get my Drift?? | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
hi................it seems that you are building something similar to my engine...........What do you mean by.........."I am still having a few issues with the 1208 XB9......".............? Regards tiger | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
I will do this in two post, as these were two bikes we build when Vallejo Performance Services was still around. The XB9 was built for a customer as a street legal track bike. The mods included forks, shock, swing arm chain conversion, body work from Hals. The Revolution Performance Engine Package is 3.875 x 3.125 for 1208 cc. We started with a lightened balanced crank in bored cases RP Stage 3 Heads using stainless valves. It has RP valve train, but Red Shift 585-V2 Cams, as Brian's RP610 were not available at that time. It has a 49-mm TB, Micron Exhaust, American Sport Bike Open Air Box Kit and I tuned it with Direct Link. As this is an info post, I am not going into the 450kPa fuel pressure issues in detail. But as a rule "Street/Track" bikes still using an 02 sensor have a few issues in the rear fuel table at a higher fuel pressure. It makes 111 RWHP at 7500 RPM with 80+ ft/lbs of torque from 5K to red line. Great track bike that could rev to 8K with bigger numbers if it had the right ECM ... Terry | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
The second half of this post is the XB12 VPS built as a Revolution Performance Project. It was again built for a customer as a street bike. The mods were engine only, but will soon include a chain conversion as the belt is going away slowly. The RP Engine Package is 3.875 x 3.813 for 1500 cc / 90 cubic inches. We did not need to lighten or balanced the crank as it was a low time engine. The cases were bored to take the RP Barrels and we used RP Stage 3 heads again with stainless valves. It's all RP valve train, including Brian's new RP610 Cams. It has a TB bored to 52-mm, Micron Exhaust and it was also tuned using Direct Link and a Buell race ECM. Again as this is an info post, so I will not going into the tuning issues in detail. But this was the first time I used Henry Duga's 450kPa regulator and the stock 02 sensor. It needed more fuel on top, but had too much in "closed loop," but I got it figured out. It makes 117 HP at the rear wheel, with the torque hitting 90+ @ 3.5K all the way to a red line of 6800, the peak is 102 ft/lbs. I had a chance to ride it at speed during a tour of the track during the Infineon AMA Weekend, and this thing is a very rideable monster, but with a capital "M" . . ... Terry | ||
| Tigerbythetail |
hi.................Thx Terry. I am very grateful for this information. We are using the RP610. The figures you are quoting make perfect sense. The rear fuell table issue will become evident for me when we do the dyno tuning of my 1208. I have a fully programmable factory ECM and that should hopefully fix the problem. best regards chris | ||
| Opto |
Terry, could the 90" kit be fitted with minimal head and valve train mods to an XB12 simply to obtain more midrange power (not peak horsepower) or would an approach like this not be suitable? Is the crank balance (vibes) still OK with the larger pistons? Ian. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Opto, yes you can. We try and use common sense about the crank. If it has less than 10K is in good shape and on a street bike we don't rebuild or balance it. The CP pistons are weight matched and work well. However if it's high time or will be spun-up on a track bike, we decide to lighten and balance when we rebuild it. We built a 90 inch M2 using RP Stg. 2 heads and bolt on H-D S/E 536 cams. RWHP at 102 and the torque topped at 109 ft/lbs, touching the 100 ft/lb mark at 3000 and never dropping below that. We are in the process of building another 90 inch tuber an X1. It will use same RP Stg 2 Heads and S/E 536 cams. There is also a smaller 883 to 1250 conversion in process. It's an "R" Model is using stock Buell Thunder Storm Heads and the 536 cams and we will install the Stainless Steel Super Trap Exhaust. These are serious torque monsters with the smaller or stock valves and a milder cam. We stay with the 536's as they are bolt-on and we can keep stock lifters, rockers and push rods. It saves a little in both parts and labor on the quote. BTW. ... Fireman Jim and I get the keys to the new shop today, and our new Land & Sea Dyno arrives mid June, The shop will feature Brian's RP Bolt on and Big Bore Kits for Buells and H-D. The X1 and Sporster will be the first customers bikes we will break-in and then tune on the new machine. We can't wait to see the numbers on these bikes. ... Terry PS. ... The Name of our shop is JT&S Performance and it's located at Infineon Raceway out here in N Calif. ... As soon as our internet access is working, the domain name, web page and finally "Bad Web Banner" are on it's way. JT&S is short for Jim Terry & Sam. ... We want to thank all of you for your support as we try and make this work. ... Terry (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Hogs |
Thanks Terry, I will be keeping an eye on this thread down the road, Henry Duga's 450kPa regulator is there any news on this and I guess its a must for the 90 inch kits and all, Just what does this do? Do you find the 610 cams are better for this kit on the 12`s than the 585`s also the 52 mm T.Body is a must as well.. Thanks again I`m waiting on one of these kits if ya find them to hold together for the street etc etc.. Those are some NICE Numbers btw Chris | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Chris they are bullet proof, use a great piston and run cooler due to the absence of the cast iron liner. Getting the RS585-V2 from Zippers is the issue and then fitting the pinion gears. Brian took care of all that in that it's one stop shopping and they all use the later "High Contact Gear Sets" If you are building a race bike and using an S&S crank you will need to change the pinion gear on the driven cam. On the 52mm TB remember the stack is a rubber 49mm and you need it to get to 52 or you are sucking through a under size straw. We use a Hillborn stack cut and fitted, but a billet stack is on the way. ... Terry | ||
| Kowpow225 |
Terry, How much weight is removed from the stock crank? How much could a lightly modified bike with the usual assortment of bolt ons (Airbox, Exhaust, Fuel mods) benefit from a lightened flywheel/crank setup? Would this mostly be a waste of time? | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Normally a pipe, air cleaner and tuning is a Stage 1 Mod. The issue with the crank is the cost to get it in your hand. A lighter set of engine wheels spin up faster and add a little HP. But the cost is way out of line if you don't have a reason to remove the engine and split the cases. You would get more by doing a Stage 2 with cams for less labor charge. On the amount of material removed it depends if it is a race only engine or just lightened and balanced for the street. I am not too sure my Bonneville Blast even has any flywheels left. It spins like a Top Fuel Engine. ... Terry | ||
| Xb9 |
I've been running a Rev-perf short stroke 1208, same specs as Terry's talking. The thing's a hoot to ride, and after a little over a year of track beating is still running strong. I have left the rev limit at 7500 for reliability. I hand turned a 49mm stack out of billet (modeled on the FAST), and run the factory racing programmable ecm from Henry Duga. The front cyl map is maxed out on the high end @ 12.5:1 with a 1050 static LFV (I don't run an O2 sensor with the 110 octane leaded race fuel), but there's still more room to work if I raised the LFV and remapped it. It runs too good right now to mess with it. Brian Nallin does excellent work, just let him know what you're looking for and he is straight up with you. I'll be up at Road America next week for the inside pass trackday if anyone want's to check it out. | ||
| Opto |
Thanks for the info Terry, I'm just running as a street bike and it sounds like the torque increases are definitely substantial. Being overseas I am hoping to buy the barrells and pistons kit and get a local engine builder to bore the cases and put the stock heads back on (XB12), it sounds like the S/E 536 cams are the way to go for a "torque monster" which is what I would be aiming for, peak HP is not really important. Would this approach make sense? With this scenario, and with the aftermarket EFI I have running already, will I be able to give the 90 c.i. motor enough fuel with the stock injectors and stock fuel pressure before I hit 100% duty cycle on the injectors? I think it will be OK or borderline, but not sure. Good luck with your new shop. Ian. (Message edited by opto on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Ian, remember the 536's are marked to be installed with the #3 cam as the driven cam, when used on an XB the driven cam is the #2, so you have to swap the #2 and #3 and use a degree wheel to time them. The 90 inch motor with HF Heads and taller cams requires 255 bits of fuell, which is 100% duty. With the stock heads the VE numbers would be less so you might be able to get there with less than 100% fuel. ... Terry | ||
| Opto |
Thanks for the answers. Plenty to think about, sounds great. | ||
| Sub65chris |
boneville blast? please do tell im working on a xb blast and would like to hear about your engine mods. thanks . | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Chris the details of the 650-cc Blast are posted in the "Thumper and the LSR Racing Forum" It's a AMA Record Holder and the Worlds Fastest Buell Blast, so I am not too sure it will ever get back on the track. But if you wanted to make a track single the Blast/XB marriage would be the answer, so post some details and pictures for us. ... Terry | ||
| Sub65chris |
cool i will check it out and get you some pictures. thanks | ||
| Sweatmark |
Sub65chris - interested in your Blast/XB project as well... looking forward to pics and any tips you might want to share. Terry - I've always wanted to do my own engine build-up, and my XB seems a perfect candidate. Goals are 100Hp/100ft-lb with stock compression ratio and prefereably stock heads & cams; street application. Possible? Will I need to go to 88/90 inches to achieve this? Your comments appreciated. Mark Oregon | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Mark, it's going to be hard to get there without combustion chamber and valve train work. Is there a reason to keep these stock? All these 100HP engine don't have to be race bikes. We can do a 90 inch kit, with Stg. 2 heads and smaller SE 536 cams. You get what you want, but still have a bike you can ride every day. ... Terry | ||
| Sweatmark |
Terry - thanks for the reply... much like Opto describes above, I'd prefer to make the initial build modest (as if 90 cu.in. is "modest"), utilizing as many stock parts as possible to keep the project affordable (= do-able). Torque is my goal: any guess what a 90in. kit + those mild SE 536 cams will make? Mark | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Size is an expense relative to what it take to get there??? And what that means is a 1250 is a bolt on Kit on a Tube framed it cost a little less to install than on an XB. The larger "Big Bore" Kits require engine removal and full disassembly for case boring. Again the XB has a couple of hours extra labor due to the transmission work required to split the cases. Both of the RP Kit's cost just about the same. I bet that if you had a good (New) set of ThunderStorm heads $299 each retail and the SE536 cams a 90 inch motor could see from 105 to 109 in torque. ... Terry | ||
| Hogs |
Hey Terry, Just curious what is your shop name etc? Thanks | ||
| Freezerburn |
JT&S Performance at Infineon Raceway in N. California as read from post #13. I know yer gettin' old so no prob for me to help the old guys out. |
