| Author | Message | ||
     Sci |
Gonna put a D&D on next week and was wondering if I need this. And if so, where do I get one? And what else should I get besides the filter? Is the race ECM needed? I just want the sound mainly. Thanks Duncan | ||
| Bads1 |
Yes you need a Race Ecm or the Direct link system. The emulator you will not need. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Depends on who you believe. Some guys run the stock ecm in which case you could use the servo emulator, the only thing it does it turn off the check engine light for a bad exhaust servo. There have been some really ugly pictures of blown motors attributed to aftermarket exhaust, K&N filter and a stock ecm. Some guys run a remapped the stock ecm. to prevent a lean condition. Others just run the race ecm which takes care of all of the above. I run the stock filter, race ecm and the buell race can. (Message edited by lost_in_ohio on May 26, 2007) | ||
| Mdm |
>There have been some really ugly pictures of blown motors attributed to aftermarket exhaust, K&N filter and a stock ecm. where ? | ||
| Lonexb |
i would like to see these pictures as well. i could not find them using the search function. could you please post a link to them? brian | ||
| Bads1 |
I have never seen them either but I do know that Daves had a bike come in for service a year or two ago when he was at Appleton still with the case of a blown motor. The blame was a D&D and no Race ECM. | ||
| Dmhines |
I have the D&D's installed on my 2006. I went with the K&N, 2007 airbox, catch can kit and custom ECM map. I disconnected the servo cable at both ends and tucked them neatly out of sight. The servo is still in place with the harness attached ... so no ... you don't need the emulator. if you go with an open airbox and remove the inner airbox completely ... then you will need the emulator since there will be no place to put the servo. | ||
| Dmhines |
You either need the Race ECM or the Servo eliminator...period. I just did this to my bike last week. I have neither a race ECM nor a Servo Eliminator on my bike ... you only need one if you want to remove the entire servo unit from your bike ... which is not necessary to do unless you do the open airbox mod.} | ||
| Bads1 |
Dmhines said.....I have neither a race ECM nor a Servo Eliminator on my bike ... you only need one if you want to remove the entire servo unit from your bike ... which is not necessary to do unless you do the open airbox mod.} Bingo!!!! If your running a Drummer!!! (Message edited by bads1 on May 26, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
You either need the Race ECM or the Servo eliminator...period. I just did this to my bike last week. And your point is.lol | ||
| Dmhines |
I was quoting a post that was between my 7:45 PM and 11:28 PM post ... the post I am quoting I put in blue. Apparantly it was deleted ... | ||
| Turk |
What does the Drummer have to do with anything? | ||
| Daves |
BadS1 The bike with the fried piston wasn't in Appleton. I just got "involved" with the problem. I can't remember who's bike it. It did happen. I would not run an aftermarket exhaust without a race ecm or direct link mapping. What everyone else does is up to them. I have both Kandie and her Mom's XB9S bikes set up with D+D,Race AF and race ecm. They both run great. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
After an hour of searching I found the link. Again I have no involvement in the events other than remembering them. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/206506.html?1150442264 Here is the link judge for yourself. Is it worth the risk???? Race ECM is only $200 if I remember right. Heck no. (Message edited by lost_in_ohio on May 27, 2007) | ||
| Lonexb |
thank you Jerry. for taking the time to find that link. brian | ||
| Al_lighton |
If your motor is running excessively lean in the upper RPM ranges, bad tiki can happen. It can happen in the lower ranges, but it is much less likely because there is much less heat developed, and the engine cooling methods have been sized for getting rid of the heat generated in high RPM/High load conditions. from this link: http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/102spring2002_Web_proj ects/Z.Yates/Zach's%20Web%20Project%20Folder/EICE% 20-%20Main.htm 1. Description of an Internal Combustion Engine There are many different types of Internal Combustion Engines. Essentially all of them work the same way. A mixture of air and fuel is sucked into the engine, where it is compressed. The mixture of air and fuel is then ignited. The burning gasses expand, and then they are expelled from the engine. 2. Ratings of Power The amount of work an engine exerts is measured in foot * pounds of torque. The amount of power that an engine can do is measured in horsepower or watts. 1 horsepower = (550 FT * LB) / Sec = 746 Watts = 2,545 BTU / Hour To convert torque into horsepower: (Torque * RPM) / 5,252 *NOTE* Horsepower will always equal torque at 5,252 rpm, torque will always be greater than horsepower under 5,252 rpm, and horsepower will always be greater than torque over 5,252 rpm. 3. Ratings of Efficiency There are many different ways to find the efficiency of an engine, and many different parts of an engine that you can rate the efficiency. Thermal efficiency is the percentage of energy taken from the combustion which is actually converted to mechanical work. In a typical low compression engine, the thermal efficiency is only about 26%. In a highly modified engine, such as a race engine, the thermal efficiency is about 34%. Mechanical efficiency is the percentage of energy that the engine puts out after subtracting mechanical losses such as friction, compared to what the engine would put out with no power loss. Most engines are about 94% mechanically efficient. This means that for a stock engine, only 20% of the power in fuel combustion is effective. Volumetric efficiency is the relationship between how much air and fuel has been taken into the cylinder, compared to how much air and fuel is required to fill the cylinder under normal atmospheric pressure. Volumetric efficiency is expressed in a percentage. Another way to rate an engines performance is its horsepower to cubic inch ratio. An engine has 351 cubic inches and 330 horsepower. 330 / 351 = .94 so its horsepower to cubic inch ratio is .94:1 4. Hopes for a more efficient engine. Engines aren't very efficient. Just think only 20% of the power produced by the burning fuel is useful, and even less than that ever makes it to the wheels of your car. (snip snip--deleted stuff) Copywrite © 2002 Zach Yates I didn't go check the accuracy of all that, but it seems about right from all the engines courses I took in engineering school. 1 HP is about 746 watts. If you are producing 100 crank HP, and your engine is 25% efficient, there is 300HP worth of heat, or 223,800 Watts of heat being wasted. That is a VERY large number. If you think of it as 2,238 100 watt light bulbs, you kind of get a feel for how much power is dissipated. A LOT of that power isn't dissipated through the cylinder and head fins. A LOT of it goes right out the tail pipe. Still, a significant amount DOES get dissipated by the physical engine. The size of the fins, the airflow design, etc. was engineered to get rid of that amount of heat when the engine is being run at WOT. A lean engine runs hotter due to less cooling from the intake charge, more friction due to the loss of lubricity gained from the excess fuel, and more pre-ignition. At high RPM/high load conditions, the extra heat can be the proverbial straw that pushes the engine beyond it's design margins. As it starts to exceed that margin, and the temperatures skyrocket, other failure modes start to produce a cascade failure mode. The extra heat accelerates pre-ignition, and the mechanical parts start to experience MUCH higher mechanical loads as the big bang occurs with the piston moving up. Efficiency goes down, and even MORE heat is generated/dissipated. The bottom line, a little bit lean in the lower RPM ranges won't hurt much unless there is substantial pre-ignition occurring simultaneously. The engine has a thermal design capable of dealing with the heat loads there. But that same mixture on the top end can spell disaster. This is the reason why the race ECM is a generally good idea on these bikes when running aftermarket intake/exhaust configurations. The Buell race pipe that the race ECM was designed for is a top end emphasis pipe. Not many pipes will best a race kit at the top end, see the exhaust shootout. It puts substantially more fuel in on the top end of the curve than the stock ECM because of this. It does NOT put much more fuel in at all below 4000 RPM. In fact, because of the closed loop configuration and the fact that the AFV setting algorithms demand a 14.7:1 map across the closed loop learn domain, the Buell race kit will pass the EPA GAS emissions test (but will fail on noise). The EPA test doesn't test high throttle angle emissions, if it did, no car or bike on the road today would pass. But because it does put in more fuel, it will generally fuel any aftermarket exhaust/intake configuration slightly to grossly rich on the top end, IF the AFV is set to 100. But depending on where it is learned, the AFV may be substantially below 100, and the race ECM fueling might get scaled back as a result. For most pipes, it has margin that can deal with that. But the same is not true of the stock ECM. If the stock ECM is fueling a little lean at the top end, AND you learn the AFV over a range that causes it to scale downwards (i.e. lower than 100), there may be negative margin on the AFR in high throttle positions and a very lean top end condition can result. It is for this reason that I recommend a race ECM at minimum for most pipes. The D&D is a bit of an enigma, however. It is the Anti-Race Pipe. The race pipe is Big on the ends, weak in the middle. The D&D is big in the middle, weak on the ends. With an AFV of 100, the D&D is more than adequately fueled in the upper reaches by a stock ECM. The problem is twofold, however. 1) IF the AFV is learned in the 2-3K range, it can go quite a bit below 100, as the D&D is not a good power maker there and is overfueled off of either the race or stock ECM map there. 2) The D&D makes big midrange power, better than anything out there in the 4-5K range. It needs substantially more fuel in that range than either the stock or race map will deliver, but the race map makes up a lot of ground towards the top of the D&D's power production range and isn't too far off in the upper midrange, where the most damage potential exists. The combination of 1 and 2 above can be bad. Excessive leanness at the top, even with a scaled low AFV, isn't too much of a problem, but come down just a bit from the top end and the problem is exacerbated quite a bit. For that reason, I generally recommend a race ECM even for the D&D, but a remap is probably best of all because of the magnitude of the mismatch. If there was a pipe that made 10% more power at 2k, 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k, and 7K, there would be no need for a race ECM. The AFV would be set 10% high during closed loop learn, it would give the engine 10% more fuel in open loop all the way to redline. That pipe doesn't exist. And folks probably wouldn't want it if it did, because it is the hole in the midrange of both the stock and race setups that most folks want gone. Most of the aftemarket setups do get rid of that hole, but the price paid is inconsistent AFV setting. Al | ||
| Turk |
Still trying to figure out what the Drummer has to do with anything. Bads1? | ||
| Bads1 |
I guess I mean't you didn't need the race ecm or the emulator with a Drummer. Many are running them without a Race ECM just disconnecting the Servo cable and leaving the servo plugged in to avoid engine light. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Turk here is the problem 2) The D&D makes big midrange power, better than anything out there in the 4-5K range. It needs substantially more fuel in that range than either the stock or race map will deliver, but the race map makes up a lot of ground towards the top of the D&D's power production range and isn't too far off in the upper midrange, where the most damage potential exists. Hope that helps. | ||
| Sci |
Thanks a million guys for all the info. I will end up getting the race ecm since the harley place here told me they can "remap" the stock ecm on a buell......just the harleys. Which I found odd. I dont do much racing but I do tend to get on it at time to time. Also I am having an issue finding a race ecm, none of the dealers have them so if anyone needs to get rid of one that will fit a 2006 XB12R I can paypal ya today! Thanks again! Duncan | ||
| Al_lighton |
We've got a bunch in stock. See http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/17015.html | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
 You can always make a servo. These parts are available at radio shack. | ||
| Sci |
I left the servo hooked up, but the cables I have tucked away so they dont get hung. Also I understand that I shouldnt use the race ecm. Will the stock ecm "re-learn"? I dont do racing or anything I just wanted the sound. | ||
| Cowtown |
Firebolteric, Can you explain the components in that schematic for the electronic challenged, like myself? |
