| Author | Message | ||
     Disturbed |
Opinions on one vs. the other for use in the engine and primary. Currently Syn3 in both. | ||
| Jaimec |
Which costs more? Go with the cheaper one. Can't go wrong with either. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Both are excellent. I use Mobil 1 SuperSyn Extended Performance 15W-50 in the engine and tranny. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/ Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_15W-50.aspx | ||
| Glitch |
After reading about Mobil1 gear oil eating yellow metals, and having gone through two stators (20,000 miles each) I decided to go with the Buell recommendation and use Formula+ in the primary, and Syn3 in the engine. | ||
| Xbswede |
I second the Formula + for the Primary and Sync3 for the engine per Buell recommendation. Shifting seems to be a little quieter with Formula + and costs less then putting Sync3 in the Primary. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My 05 XB does not seem to shift quite as nicely with the Formula+ as it does with the Mobil 1 Gear oil, but it's close. I think 05 is the only year that the "new" transmission was used, in 06 they had "an even newer" transmission that shifted even better. To really get the full benefit from Formula+, I think you have to do the clutch pack modification (forget which bit they removed though). | ||
| Glitch |
Mines an 03, and notice no difference at all in shifting between Mobil1 and Formula+, then again, maybe that's because I have the oldest version of the XB transmission. Know where I might find more information on the clutch pack modification? | ||
| Yellowbolter |
i have heard of guys running the same mobil 1 they run in there engine in the transmision instead of gear oil..that is what i was planning on doing. any thoughts? | ||
| Kootenay |
i have heard of guys running the same mobil 1 they run in there engine in the transmision instead of gear oil..that is what i was planning on doing. any thoughts? Yes, I do that. I'm running AMSOil, and I initially planned to run 20W50 in the engine and 80W90 in the transmission--but on AMSOil's website, they recommend 20W50 engine oil in both. First off, be aware that 50 wt engine oil is about the same viscosity as 90 wt gear oil (they are measured to different standards or some such), and gear oils often have additives which, while good in the gearbox, tend to attack yellow metals like the copper in the XB stator. AS long as you change the transmission oil every now and then, 20W50 engine oil is fine in there. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Lafeyette was the first I heard talking about the clutch modification... I'll noodle the archives and see if I can find anything. It was removing one of plates, and long after he was talking about it, I think the factory started doing it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here is one... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=3842&post=511927#POST511927 More searching would find more... it looks like it is swapping out the spring plate for a few other plates... This would be a good time for somebody who knows what the heck I am talking about to chime in and clarify  | ||
| Percyco |
I use Syn-3 in both on my 2003 XB9S, It did shift slightly smoother after replacing the Sports-Tran with Syn-3. | ||
| Socalbueller |
I use to run Syn 3 until Cyclegear had a sale on Mobil 1 V-Twin oil for $2 cheaper than the Syn 3. My bike is noticeably quieter with Mobil 1. | ||
| Sinatra |
amsoil 20w50 for v twins in both. shifts smoother and seems to run a bit cooler. xb9sx 2005. | ||
| Glitch |
Here is one... Thanks Reep!  | ||
| Raymondt |
If money was no object. What is the absolute best thing to run in the engine and primary in my old style 04 XB12 tranny and engine. I have been using SYN 3 with no issue. I used to swear by Spectro 4 synthetic in my jap bikes. | ||
| Kowpow225 |
I switched from SYN3 to Mobile 1 V-Twin and don't plan on going back to the SYN. I agree about how much quieter it runs. | ||
| Disturbed |
The reason I am bringing this up is I am ready for my 5000 mile service. Doing it myself of course. I have SYN3 in the bike now, no complaints, fan never comes on, tranny shifts OK(I don't expect it to shift like a metric bike), it's a little clunky but I expect it to be. The yellow metals concern me when considering the MOBIL1 V-TWIN. I have not heard of any yellow metal issues with this specific oil though....... | ||
| Kootenay |
The yellow metals concern me when considering the MOBIL1 V-TWIN. AFAIK, there is only a concern about yellow metals with gear oil, not engine oil. Mobil V-Twin engine oil should be fine. Please correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
| Disturbed |
The yellow metals concern me when considering the MOBIL1 V-TWIN. AFAIK, there is only a concern about yellow metals with gear oil, not engine oil. Mobil V-Twin engine oil should be fine. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That is my understanding as well AND what I am hoping to have validated by others. | ||
| Reepicheep |
This has been hashed to death elsewhere, so I don't want to argue about it... but let me just insert a few relevant facts... 1) I pulled a Buell transmission apart that had been running nothing but Mobil 1 gear oil for 20k miles, and there was no sign of any problems with any metals (yellow or otherwise). 2) I did loose a stator on that same bike in that 20k mile period. 3) Stator copper should not in theory touch gear oil, they are potted and sealed. 4) Insulation and potting compound will touch the gear oil however. I stopped running mobil 1 gear oil, but it's because I have a vague concern about the stator adhesive, insulation, and potting compound, not about the yellow metals. YMMV, IMHO, FWIW. I have no hard data, and would welcome any that people bring to the table, but have no interest in changing anyones opinion. If Mobil 1 V Twin was not $8 per bottle around here, I would run it for my engine oil. Instead, I run Castrol Syntec 20w50 (if I can find it) or Valvoline Full Synthetic 20w50 (cheaper but rarer) or Mobil 1 15w50. Those all end up about $5 per quart, and I change them out at about 4000 miles (which is no doubt overkill). Any of these oils should work great in the gear box as well. In the primary, I run Formula+ now. I'd probably leave it in there up to about 5000 miles... but should probably change it if it wintered over. I changed it last fall, and I rode most of the winter, but thats a lot of thermal cycles. The only reason to run gear oil in the gear box is that there are anti shear additives you can add to a gear box oil that make it a great gear box oil, but that would do really terrible things to a combustion chamber if it were to ever be burned. So they can't put them in normal engine oil. Many many motorcycles run shared engine and gearbox oil, and so don't have a choice, and are just fine with engine oil in both places. As a Buell owner, we have a choice, and can probably get marginally better performance in the transmission from a gear oil, but both would probably be fine, and one could make a pretty good argument for using the same oil in both places, especially given it's so easy to change. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and one more important point that could change my choice of engine oil... Are the Syn3 folks contributing substantially to the XBRR race program? I seem to recall them sponsoring the bike, but don't know if it was a significant sponsorship, or a kind of token thing... It's good oil, so I would be happy to use it, it's just similar to the Mobil 1 VTwin... a little pricey and inconvenient for me to get. They would have to give me a reason to drive across town... | ||
| Glitch |
Are the Syn3 folks contributing substantially to the XBRR race program? Substantially? Not sure, but did/are contributing, from what I've heard. | ||
| Gowindward |
Last summer there was a big to do about the Mobil 1 gear oil and it attacking "yellow metals" I put this sample together in July '06 I picked out a bunch of tarnished pennies out of the penny jar and put three in a zip lock bag with a sample of Mobile 1 Syn gear oil, Mobil 1 Syn 15w50 motor oil, and Formula + My guess then was that if any of the oils attacked the pennies the tarnished pennies would shine up on their own.     Here's the current results. The pennies have not shined up, but the gear oil is turning green.    | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool! Thanks for doing that and thanks for posting! It's doing something with the copper... You need a chunk of bronze for that test as well. | ||
| Gowindward |
Bill, looks like I just need the right year of pennies. LOL Bronze is mostly copper, with tin. Like a 60/40 split, so I think if it would attack bronze it would attack the pennies. Years Penny Material 1793–1836 copper 1837–1856 bronze 1857–1863 87.5% copper, 12.5% nickel (also known as NS-12) 1864–1942 bronze 1943 zinc-plated steel 1944–1961 bronze (95% copper, 5% zinc and tin) 1962–1982 95% copper, 5% zinc (about 3.04 grams) 1982– present 97.5% zinc core, 2.5% copper plating | ||
| Dcmortalcoil |
If it's turning green, its reacting with the metal. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, all in all, that's enough for me to recommend people move on to other good choices for gear oil. You could still debate if there is really a net effect (a small amount of oil with a large amount of copper for a long period of time doing a small chemical reaction)... I pulled M1 gear oil out of my M2 primary many many times and it never came out green. You could also still argue that any stator that has exposed copper to the primary fluid has *already* failed... it's just not dead yet, so the "M1 gear oil kills stators" is still not a given... But really, why bother. There are plenty of other good options for the gear oil... and it is clear that the Mobil 1 gear oil reacts with copper (which is exposed on the bronze shift forks) regardless of the stator question. So I formally declare surrender to everyone I have argued about this in the past with... Thanks for bringing some new empirical evidence to the table GoWindward! Cool stuff! In my best Jamie voice.... I would declare the M1 Gear Oil myths "plausible" (and on that tangent, it looks like Grant is a rider... anyone know what he rides?) | ||
| Glitch |
Gowindward, nice experiment! Like I said before, I'll just stick to what Buell recommends, I don't want to do another stator. At least if I do, I'll know it wasn't necessarily Mobil1 that caused it, and that stators go out about every 20,000 miles or so. Reep, since his experiment was sitting in a bag for a long time, do you think that would make up for the fact that the primary gets pretty hot, speeding things up a bit? Just a thought. | ||
| Freezerburn |
Yeah Glitch, a typical rule of thumb is that for every 10 degrees Celsius increase in temp, the reaction rate doubles. Collision theory and reaction rate calculations are actually fairly complicated and bring back memories of college chemistry I'd rather forget. How hot does it get in the primary? Hot enough to increase the reaction rate more than 20 fold. |
