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Ministerofsinister
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have my first track day at the Miller Motorsports track here in Utah. I have the appropriate helmet and jacket, but am not sure on the type pant necessary for the track. Will a purpose built pant like the Icon Anthem or Hooligan suffice? Do I have to have full leathers? Am I crazy for not wanting full leather pants? Please help!
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Buell4me
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Minister,
I actually haven't done a true track day--I did go to a track day to collect info on changes I wanted to make to my bike but, to get back on the subject--you should check with the track or the outfit that is running the track day. Team Promotion ran the one I was at. They require leathers, top and bottom, with a full circumference zipper or a one-piece suit. They also require full face helmet and leather boots that provide protection above the ankle. Now, that isn't to say a trial day on the track you could get away with a leather upper, good denim bottoms and work boots.
But don't expect to ride the track like that for long.--Better to contact the track and find out what they require unless you live next door and have access to race equipment. In fact, they sometimes provide optional leathers/boots for a reduced price. Better to enjoy the experience under the right conditions. Have Fun!!!
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Watrousmark
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You WANT leather pants, unless you don't like sitting down. I doubt they will let you on the track without being able to zip your pants onto the jacket.
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Plag
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Most track organizers get a bit queezy unless you have one piece leathers with back protector and armour, appropriate boots, gloves and tech inspected helmet. For track days sometimes they will let you get away with 2 piece leathers as long as they completely zip together with a metal zipper and are of good quality.

P
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Ministerofsinister
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sounds like I better get some answers soon so I can aquire the appropriate gear. The gear that i have so far is as follows:

Cortech Drax Jacket with armor
Arai RX-7 helmet
Icon Hooligan gloves

Need Pants (8" zipper in jacket) and boots.
by the way you all are sounding, I may need to get a suit, but I will check this out. Thank you all for the fast responses.

Watrous, You convinced me of leather...

Minister
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Captnemo
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

One track day will convince you that leather is the way to go. You can tell who rides by the condition of their leathers.
Check places like newenough.com, ironpony.com, sportbiketrackgear.com, metricbikes.com and similar to find a closeout on a suit or pants.

(Message edited by CaptNemo on April 01, 2007)
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Coturi
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Are you doing the Buell trackday in May? My friend and I will be there. Or you just doing an open day, or one through Apex? The requirements are all different.
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Kpg2713
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Minister, I was thinking about going to that event too. However, I don't have the dough to fork out for some leathers right now. I have a jacket and whatnot but not a full suit or boots. Anyway, I am in the Highland area. I noticed your in Magna. We should ride sometime.
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Ministerofsinister
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Coturi:

Yes it is the Buell track day in May 2 and I am entering the Beginner/Novice group. Sounds like I will se you there. The bike in your profile is sweet!

Kpg2713:

Definateley. Have you tried the road up to Wolfcreek. I did this last year and it was so much fun I had to do it twice on the same trip!

Minister
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Coturi
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, you guys might want to check with Private Track Time. Their website says that you don't have to have full leather, or riding boots for the novice group. Though I would still advise it. I have a some extra gear if someone needs to borrow something, I'll be bringing it down with me anyway, just in case.

I'm extremely excited about the trackday, just not the drive down there, and look forward to seeing some other Buells on the track.

Oh, and a few of us will be down for the day in September as well.
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Kpg2713
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 12:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

No I haven't been to wolfcreek. Where is it? I haven't lived here for long so I don't know all the good places to ride yet.
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Ministerofsinister
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 01:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Take I-80 up towards Park City and stay on it until you reach the I-40 exit. Take I-40 south until you see the Kamas exit and then follow this until you reach Kamas. As soon as you enter Kamas you will have a choice to go right or left. Turn right toward Francis and follow the road until you get to the 3-way stop. Turn left on highway 35 at the three way and follow the road all the way up twoard wolfcreek camground. The best time to go is during a weekday when the O.A.T. is around 80 degrees (it's a little chilly up on top of the mountain).
You can follow this road all the way to I-40 and come back on it around Tabiaona/Strawberry area. Great ride, very twisty. Beautiful in the fall.

(Message edited by ministerofsinister on April 02, 2007)

(Message edited by ministerofsinister on April 02, 2007)
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Rhun
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Any track day I've ever attended the promoter has always had a page describing exactly what is required. Read it, if you don't understand email them. You don't want to get turned away. You also need to know how much per square inch your skin is worth to you. Good gear can save many square inches of skin. Cheap boots feel like cheap boots and will distract from your riding enjoyment. A broke ankle is about $6000. The advantage of two piece over 1 piece is that 1 piece are built for normal proportioned people, not me. If the promoter requires two piece to be zipped together the 8 inch zipper won't do you'll need the 12 inch or duck tape the pieces together.
Many times not much protection is required for beginning classes to get people involved cheaply. Some promoters rent good stuff. I'd go that direction, personally.
I get extra wear out of my 'good stuff' on the street also, especially in the spring and fall, for extra warmth.
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Slaughter
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Get in touch with the TRACK DAY OPERATOR!

Every operator has different requirements.

Here it is copied/pasted from the Private Track Time website http://www.privatetracktime.com/buell_days/buell_p olicies.aspx


quote:

Novice - Gear Requirements*

Leather or heavy jacket. No nylon.
Back Protector highly recommended
Chaps, leather, or Cordura pants
Reinforced synthetic riding suits acceptable
Full-face coverage helmet
Over-ankle Riding Boots
Full-fingered gloves

Intermediate and Advanced - Gear Requirements*
One or two-piece leathers.
Back Protector highly recommended
Reinforced synthetic riding suits acceptable only if competion approved
Full-face coverage helmet
Over-ankle Riding Boots
Full-fingered gloves


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Plag
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Do yourself a favor and don't go onto the track without good quality gear. Don't try and go cheap, it's not worth it. If you are going to do track days on a regular basis it really is a matter of "Not if... but when and how bad?" and good gear is the difference between walking away and not... even at lower speeds.

It happens every track day I have ever been to...there will be at least one crash. I have been to many track days and helped out organizers by leading groups. Someone will target fixate and crash, or worse target fixate on someone running off and hit them. Seen it and it can be ugly. I have crashed racing and practicing at low and at high speeds (over 240 kph) and would not get anywhere near a track without complete, proper gear with body armour. There is no rhyme or reason to it, sometimes injuries are worse from low speed crashes than high speed depending on whether or not there is a sudden stop and where the bike ends up. Bottom line...be prepared. Even if they allow it don't go without proper boots with armour, a good leather suit with hard armour and back protector, racing gloves with hard armour and reinforced palms and a good quality full face helmet without any previous scrapes.

Riding on the track is the most rewarding riding and the biggest adrenalin rush I have ever had and is entirely worth the risks. Reality is that on the street you can really only use a small percentage of what our machines are capable of doing. On the track you can hone your skills and find performance levels that you didn't think existed. Just when you think you are getting pretty quick and getting into the faster groups someone will pass you going into a turn like you are in reverse(even though they are probably not supposed to...many have no passing in the corners rules). Don't be naive about the possibilities...be prepared. Gear is sacrificed so you are not.

P
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks for those extra carriage returns Slaughter, that makes what is on the PTT track time make a lot more sense. They did not have any line breaks, and it was incoherent.

So for Jackets, does "no nylon" mean "no cordura"? Or are they just telling people don't come with a wind breaker and expect to be allowed on our track.
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Slaughter
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 04:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Bill,

I think I'd interpret it the way you do - no windbreaker but they PROBABLY allow Aerostitch or similar type synthetic fabric gear designed for motorcycle riding. MANY track day operators allow ballistic fabric riding gear for Novice riders since they're kept under pretty tight control.

The way I look at it though - I'd tend to OVERDRESS if there was any doubt.

I'd email or call them and make dang sure they were clear about it. There's time to get it sorted out between now and the day of the event.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 05:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I emailed this morning, nothing back yet. I will update the board when I get a reply, I doubt I am the only one with questions.

I want to rent leathers, but need a Mid Ohio contact for that to make sure they have some on hand when I get there. I doubt it will be a problem, but I will be bringing the street gear for backup anyway.

Heres another question for the guys with track time...

There will be so much going on, I expect to be on the edge of being task loaded the whole time. Wearing rented leathers for the first time may be even more distracting...

Is so much different that the rented suit is just one more different thing, and if well fitted just comforting more then anything? Or is it really distracting the first few times you use it?
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Chgojim
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 06:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

reepicheep-

i worked alot of the PTT track days as a corner worker last year. i know those guys are extremely busy with their "full-time" jobs. i am sure they will get your questions answered asap.

as for the rented leathers....bring your street gear, like you said. you want to be able to get on the track regardless of what the leather rental situation is.

full leathers for the first time....not much of a big deal...once on the track, you will have so much on your mind...what you're wearing will not be on your mind.

for anybody else worried about gear and PTT "buell track days"...send them an email with the specific question (maybe even a link to the jacket or whatever in question), and i'm sure they will get back to you.

last year they were pretty easy on the novice riders at the buell track days (two pairs of jeans, work boots, etc.), but this is a new year.

all i know is....if you think you will like the track day thing... and do a few a year...just get the leathers. the value of a set of $500 leathers is priceless, after a lowside, when you're counting to five before standing up is priceless.

if PTT doesnt get back to you...send me a pm and i will call somebody and get the info.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Jim! I just emailed today, and they sent back a note saying how important my email is and that they will get back to me... so far I have a good impression.

I'll ping you if I don't hear from them.

So how fast are the novice classes? Are they people that have never done a track day before? Or are they people that have never done a track day *and* never ridden aggressively either?
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Slaughter
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I can't speak directly about PTT since I've never ridden with them before BUT every quality track day operation I have ridden with take the Novices out under an escort for the first session at a SLOW pace. This enables you to see the track at a BOOOORRRRRING speed so you don't have any worries and can pay attention to the track, the landmarks, the lines through the turns.

Generally the novice sessions also restrict passing to specific locations so that you don't have to worry about being stuffed in turns. You can expect to be passed in specific sections so it's not startling when it happens.

You will be surprised at how you will NOT be heavily task-loaded if you ride your own ride.

Most track day operators say they have most problems with the intermediate group. That's where you have people who feel they "must" be going faster and often are tempted to ride above their skill level.

Generally the novice group has more fun, less stress AND more on-track instruction.

Ride your own ride, be willing to NOT go fast. If you're riding at 80% of your max speed, you'll be amazed at how much you'll learn. Ask questions of the instructors between sessions. Keep in mind that the instructors are likely LOSING money just to be there (figure one set of tires, transportation, room and board and wear/tear on the machinery) - they are doing it because they love to do it and they respond enthusiastically to being asked for on-track help. Usually in the PM sessions, there are more chances to have them work directly with you for a few laps.

Trust me, I'm betting that in novice, you'll have the time of your life!
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Slaughter
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oh and Minister - I'm EXTREMELY jealous of you getting a taste of Miller!

That looks like an AWESOME facility. I've heard nothing but good about it.
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Spatten1
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 11:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If you're riding at 80% of your max speed, you'll be amazed at how much you'll learn.

That is the truest statement ever. At 90% you are getting too many panic moments to learn. Your 80% keeps getting faster and faster, and will soon be way faster than your previous 100%. Patience is tough, but rewarded.
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Isham
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I dont know how you can think of going on a track with out leathers... And get some better gauntlet stle gloves.
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Macbuell
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Reepi, just buy yourself a good set of two piece leathers that have a full circumference zipper. You can still wear the jacket for rides around town and such and you'd have a two piece leather suit ready and approved for pretty much all track day adventures.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 12:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Slaughter, that sounds like the perfect plan.
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Chgojim
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i agree with everything slaughter said.
PTT will have a short info session before the track day starts (to go over flags, track conditions, passing rules, etc). they will stress that the novices are there to learn how to become better riders, have fun, and NOT ruin any of their belongings. they will not allow you to pass in turns (depending how the group is doing they may change that in the afternoon), and will require a 4-6 foot berth for passing in the straigts.

ask any control rider for help, and you will get it. often times a control rider will get in front of you...tap on his seat cowl. they want you to follow them...DO IT....watch their line, see how (and when) they are shifting their weight around.

if you feel like you are riding slow, and have bikes on you back....get into a straight, and stick a leg out, this will let the guy behind you know to pass you on that side. you may feel better and be able to work more on your lines without alot of traffic behind you.

i agree that the intermediate group is the one with more problems...too many in over their heads...and too many riding down so the can work on passing etc. PTT is pretty good about moving people around to where they belong. it's a business...they want you to have a great time, they want you to sign up for another date...and they want you to tell others about it.

other than that....have fun getting your doors blown off by "the guy on the busa doing 145 in the straights," (there's always at least one), only to catch up to him parked in the corners trying to figure out how to turn that thing.
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Dbird29
Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cycle gear in Draper has a one piece suit for $499. It didn't look too bad but what do I know?
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Firemanjim
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You guys need to check out eBay and Craigslist for used leathers.I just bought a nice 1 piece set of Kushitani leathers for 110.00 off CL, and the last several sets off eBay for my son and I were all below 125.00.His 1 piece set of Vansons was 95.00.
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Spatten1
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 10:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I got mine on EBAY for $300 brand new- $900 Fieldsheers. The seller never even wore them. They fit perfect.

Reep, the novice group will have the widest variety of skill sets. As said above, they will keep you really slow for the first couple of outings. If you get held up by the slowest riders, and don't want to go around them because they are erratic, just pull back into the starting grid and they will send you back out with a clear track. If it is a good organization, the control riders will help you to get around slower people, and help faster riders get around you cleanly.

Good organizations set it up so you don't feel pressure, so you feel like you are being taught to ride better by people that care about your progress and everyone's safety.
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Captnemo
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Check the individual track for their requirements, as they will sometimes differ from the track day promoter. Use the more restrictive rules for protective gear to be sure that you can ride.

If you're going to rent leathers, reserve them early and have your measurements ready for sizing.
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Dbird29
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 01:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Got this email from Leon.

"If you have two piece riding gear that would be best case. We may have some leathers available for rental for $75 for the event.

I would just need your weight and height and we could reserve a suit for you.

If you have leather jacket and pants that would be fine as well."
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Xb12s_streetdemon
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i am getting a two piece suit from vanson with there 3 point zipper system. one across the back and two 4" on eather side in the front. do you think that will be acceptable?
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Ceejay
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

cool info! Thanks for all the help! I have a trackday coming up also so this thread has been super helpful. initially I was going to just wear some double kneed carhartts. Even though I don't plan on dusting anyone I will probalby go for a set of pants. Great stuff!
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Trac95ker
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Street Demon those should be fine. Make sure there is good armor in it and in all the critical places. Armor is a discussion unto itself. You don't want your 2pc. suit to fit loosely.
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Xb12s_streetdemon
Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i went up ther and got measured so it should fit perfect. Sweet place.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 09:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I got a response for my question from the Buell track day organizers.

My "normal street gear", which is actually all fairly high end synthetic stuff, is fine for novice class. A First Gear padded jacket, and heavy padded motorcycle pants, boots, puck gloves, etc.

Two piece leathers were recommended for the intermediate. That'd be hard for me to justify, if I was going to drop that kind of dime I think I would just get an aerostitch, which would still not meet the "full leathers" track requirements.

They said they will have some leathers with them for rent.
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Spatten1
Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Reep:

If you get the track bug really seriously you will not equivocate on buying leathers. Until and unless that happens, Aerostitch rules for the street.

You can always keep an eye on EBAY in the cold months for leathers, that's how I scored a great deal. Lots of people buy stuff on a whim an hardly or never us it, I'm there to bail them out for 50 cents on the dollar.
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