| Author | Message | ||
     Interex2050 |
This probably belongs in the KV but I need help as fast as possible... Today was supposed to be a good day, I got my tps reset in hopes to resolve the hesitation at take off and lurching I had when cruising. Well instead of it running better it now does not really run... It starts but then quickly stalls, and will only run if the throttle is applied and the rpms are kept above 2000. Atop of which it constantly backfires. The guy at the shop refused to put the tps back to where it used to be so I could at least use it to commute. So I figured I will put my old ecu back in there and it should run peachy... No that was not the case either with the old ecu the idle is very high and irregular, going from 3000 and slowly going down to a very unsteady average of about 2500. I am wondering how should I approach this issue... So far the suspects are: -the ecu units are not functioning properly -there is an intake manifold leak -my timing has somehow gotten thrown off -possibly plug wires...? Any ideas as to how I should approach this and I would really like to resolve this fast as there is a track day coming up this upcoming Monday Any help would be greatly appreciated! Much thanks! | ||
| Starbellied_sneetch |
I had a very similar problem, but I had to keep the RPMs above 4,000 to keep it running. It bucked and backfired so much I barely made it home (luckily very close). The problem was that there's a wire harness that's supposed to run beside the battery, and mine had been routed above the battery. Friction had worn the insulation through, so bare wire was sitting right on the battery terminal! Probably a longshot, but check any wires you see to make sure you don't have a similar situation. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Well your tps will not get better by changing the ecm. When changing the Ecm you NEED to get the TPS reset. Try this...Put your other ecm back in, Take the bike for a ride and keep the rpm's up above 4500(?) rpm's (check kv vault and make sure but I believe i am in the ball park). Ride it for about 15 min. like this. The ecm will "Relearn" itself and should start to run better. try and keep the trottle in a steady spot if possible Let us know how you make out. OH and get a different mechanic/dealer. This is literally a 10 minute procedure. Most here will do them for free if they have the hardware (vdsts software) and you live near them....i believe there is a thread on this and many posted for free tps resets... | ||
| Interex2050 |
The wire harness is nicely tucked away, and the battery terminals and wires also seemed solidly connected... So that does not appear to be the issue. But thanks for the pointing that out. | ||
| Interex2050 |
Fireboltic_ma, Both of the ECMs are now set for my bike... so should I use the old mangled one or the new one? I will surely try that out... Much thanks! | ||
| Slaughter |
Peter, Call Ernie or Mario at Glendale to see if you can get it in and running so you can make the track day! 818-246-5618 x218 (for Ernie) Explain that you're trying to get this sorted so you don't have to miss the track day. MAYBE they can bump you up on their priority. Ernie is sales but he can maybe help pull some strings, Mario is the GM. Dunno, worth a call maybe. I'd like to help but I'm stuck in Texas til returning for racing this weekend. | ||
| Slaughter |
And if the TPS was reset with your ECM, and you haven't changed anything on your throttle body then you should be able to just plug your old ECM in and she should run as good as it last did when it was installed. That would be a good, quick check. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
use teh one that was in the bike when the TPS was reset. This is the one your bike needs now. I BELieve You CAN NOT (check on this in the kv)have a bike set for 2 ecm's. Each ecm is set independently. Once you "RESET" the ecm it is now set to run on this ecm only. I see you live in CA. If you are near American Sportbike I would HIGHLY recomend stopping in and getting to know Al. He is a wealth of information and helps us buellers out on a regular bassis. Switching to a different ecm requires a reset every time they are switched. let us know what happens and how you make out and we can go from there. (Message edited by firebolteric_ma on March 13, 2007) | ||
| Interex2050 |
As always Steve you are a life saver! I just left a message... | ||
| Interex2050 |
Thanks a bunch Eric, I will do this later this evening, as right now I wont get far due to traffic... | ||
| Anonymous |
Actually, the phrase "TPS reset" is not an accurate description. What is actually happening is the ECM is being told what the voltage output of the TPS is when the throttle is fully closed. Because of this, multiple ECMs can be set to work on the same bike without issue. Now, that being said what would not necessarily be the same when switching ECMs is the AFV. This is the "learned" fuel value that compensates for varying conditions during open loop operation. The value is learned during closed loop operation based off of the O2 sensor feedback and used to appropriately offset the fuel map when running open loop. This is what would be reset when riding at 3500rpm for a sustained period (once warmed up). I don't believe this is your issue, BTW, but it is something to consider if you swap ECMs. My advice related to your issue would be to ask the tech if he adjusted the timing at all. Sometimes it will move a bit when being tightened down after adjustment. Happens from time to time. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
GAWD I LOVE THIS WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
Good Info!!!! | ||
| Interex2050 |
I doubt that they would go through the trouble to have done that much... (although it did take them 2 hours!?!?) But I will certainly inquire. As for the the switching of the ECU, if the old one used to work happily why does it suddenly hate the bike, unless something got shifted... quite frustrating. Much thanks anonymous. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
maybe needs to be run to "relearn"? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Count me as another vote for a timing issue. Just one of the reasons I thought Annony's post was so good. | ||
| Anonymous |
Based off of your original issue, I'm guessing timing was something they looked at (it's not that much work and a pretty typical starting point for driveability issues) and why I'm thinking that's a good place to start investigating this new deal. Plus, if the timing is off, neither ECM would help. BTW, just out of curiosity, your profile doesn't mention anything about any mods so what prompted the new ECM? | ||
| Naustin |
well whatever you do, don't take it back to that dealer. In fact, if I were you, I'd never step foot in their lair of larceny again and the next time I wanted to buy a Buell, I'd talk to Andy and have it delivered from Appleton. I hope you didn't pay them to sabotage your bike. Suspect incompetence whenever you bikes comes out worse than it went in. I can't believe they let you have the bike back without correcting the problem their fiddling created. That is unacceptable. They should be punished. No new Road Glides for `08. (Message edited by naustin on March 13, 2007) | ||
| Interex2050 |
Well good news, I called Mario (he is organizing the upcoming track day), and he said that he will make sure the Glendale shop will take care of it asap. Quite a difference between the place I went to today. I will surely forward the information gathered here to the guys that I am taking the bike to tomorrow morning. proper tps reset, timing... Anonymous, I changed the ecm because the casing on the old one is damaged, due to a certain mishap... Naustin, That was the same place that used to mount my tires before and they would always make sure to scratch my wheels in a new spot, I guess thats why they charged so much... Now I get my wheels scratched elsewhere for close to nothing! But I figured that this should be such a simple procedure that how could they possibly fail at it, I was wrong. Also, I attempted to check for intake leaks but that did not work... I did this test with the old ecm (with the sporadic idle), so I could not tell if spraying the wd40 by the intake gaskets changed anything. I appreciate all the great advice and help Much thanks to everyone (Message edited by interex2050 on March 14, 2007) | ||
| Xbullet |
so... let me get this straight... the AFV. This is the "learned" fuel value that compensates for varying conditions during open loop operation. The value is learned during closed loop operation based off of the O2 sensor feedback and used to appropriately offset the fuel map when running open loop. This is what would be reset when riding at 3500rpm for a sustained period (once warmed up). }so the ECM "relearns" and "appropriately offsets the fuel map" when run at 3500rpm for how long? and does this mean that with an aftermarket exhaust or other mod, even though the performance may not be as good as a well researched map, in theory the ecm should compensate and allow for safe operation with said modification over an extended period of time (say from then on?)? would it constantly and consistently readjust if run at 3500rpm for an extended amount of time on any given day? i've got a million questions, don't i?  | ||
| Slaughter |
I can't speak highly enough about the Glendale folks. In a pinch, they'll always try to help and since Mario is running the track day Monday, (and he's the General Manager) I had hoped he'd try to make it work See you on Monday!! YEEEA HAA!!! Track day! (I'm just coming out to support, bringing all my tools, popup shade, generator, fuel jugs, stuff like that - will already have spent all day Friday and Saturday on the track and Sunday have 4 races so Monday I'll be pooped) SEe you then! | ||
| Interex2050 |
Thanks Steve! Good luck in the race Sunday! Till Monday. | ||
| Firemanjim |
And if you listen to Al Lighton,the TPS reset is often done wrong by shops. Throttle must be closed completely--rolled up against the stop. | ||
| Slaughter |
What Jim said - the idle adjustment has to be backed ALL THE WAY out so that when you snap the throttle closed, the butterfly actually STICKS shut in the throat of the throttle body. THAT position is the ACTUAL ZERO. The voltage/signal at that position is what is used as the zero throttle. Once that is set, you will need to re-set your idle adjustment to suit. | ||
| Interex2050 |
That was another thing that I noticed, the idle adjustment screw was all the way in... Also after the ride down to Glendale this morning, the AFV must have tuned itself because the bike would now stall right away. It would weakly idle for a few seconds before dying. The guys over there seemed rather confident, and were pleased that I included the sheet of potential suspects. I also finally met Mario in person, great guy! I feel confident that they will get her running well again. Thanks again. | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah - it's kinda cool when the guys you buy your bike from actually come to the track to ride and race with you. Most dealers hope to never see you again once you're out the door - unless it's to buy some chrome or buttless chaps (I paid retail for 2 Buells from Glendale) - See you Monday! If you're in the mood, we're out at Willow Springs Friday, Saturday and Sunday - it's race weekend! | ||
| Interex2050 |
Well we will be driving out there on Sunday... So depending upon what time we get our act together we may get there pretty early, what time is the race on Sunday? Also depending on when I get my bike back, I may stop by one of earlier days... The next Buell will be coming from Glendale thats for sure. | ||
| Slaughter |
Gates open at 7, practices start about 8. 2 short practice sessions for each group then rider's meeting about 0930 We usually start race #1 about 0930 to 1000. After that, it all depends on how many times they have to stop. Schedule is posted on the official newsletter (page 5): http://www.willowspringsraceway.com/clubs/wsmc/New sletters/WSMCNews0207rev4.pdf I'm in race 1 - Formula Twins Heavyweight, race 5 - Formula 50, race 6 - Middleweight Twins (Glendale's sponsored race), race 9 - Heavyweight Twins. The other guys will run the 3 races except Formula 50 (they're not old enough!!) Don't expect me to be fast - I'm still getting back into the rhythm after the long lay-off - but come on out! Ernie from Glendale is always there, we have Chaconas, Patrick McGinley, (me), Tim and Candice Hurley and a few of our non-Buell friends - always up in the same place all the time. Lunch is free on Sunday. Please feel free to hang out with us! (Message edited by slaughter on March 14, 2007) | ||
| Interex2050 |
sounds jolly, I will try to get everyone ready sunday morning... hopefully see you then, if not till monday | ||
| Slaughter |
Weather is GORGEOUS for track days! Plan on it being pretty warm - bring some extra water in case the water and gatorade they supply runs out. Gonna be a fun day! We had a perfect day on the track yesterday, slightly warm, no wind to speak of. Nobody really doing anything stupid. Today is going to be a little bit of a harder workout practicing for races tomorrow! |
