| Author | Message | ||
     Towjam |
Someone help me out here... What is the trick to fixing the oil weepage at the oil cooler fitting? My '04 12R, did it, my '07 12R did it and my '07 12Ss is doing it. While at the dealer the other day, I checked all the new Buells on the showroom floor (including 2 Ulys, a TT, 2 12Rs and a 12Ss). All of them had oil weeping from the cooler fittings. It's my understanding that the problem is due to the cooler being aluminum and the lines being steel - and because of the different reaction to heat, oil weepage is just a given. Is there anything I can do to fix this or should I just count on wiping it down every now and then? | ||
| Ds_tiger |
Dood Describe a weep is it a film of oil on the fitting? Cause I hve an 06 and it has a very light film of oil on it - almost like road grime every here and there. Never really thought about it> because I never saw a drip ever touch the ground, ever. So there is my 2 cents worth! | ||
| Towjam |
apologies for not being more specific... Yes, it's like a film of oil - actually on the fitting but also a little bit on the cooler itself. I don't expect it will ever accumulate enough to drip - although there was a drop or two under one of the bikes on the showroom. It's more of a nuisance but I've had other bikes with oil coolers (BMWs) and they didn't have this issue. Since the XB has been out since 2001, I guess I figured Buell would have this fixed by now. Guess I'm just looking for something to bitch about.  | ||
| Ridrx |
Towjam, My 06 12R had a light film on it after about the first 300-400 mi. After I noticed it, I cleaned the fitting/line/cooler and gave the fitting about 1/16 of a turn tighter and the film has not reappeared after 5000mi.  | ||
| Towjam |
My 06 12R had a light film on it after about the first 300-400 mi. After I noticed it, I cleaned the fitting/line/cooler and gave the fitting about 1/16 of a turn tighter and the film has not reappeared after 5000mi Good to know - thanks! | ||
| Interex2050 |
If tightening does not help, you could always try some teflon tape. Next oil change just drain all the oil, unbolt the fittings and put some of the stuff on the treads. You leaking will be resolved. Also, works great for the drain plug and eliminates the need to buy the o-rings. | ||
| Typeone |
my fittings on the cooler used to show a slight film/weep as well, just like you describe. tightening helped for a little bit but it eventually came back. teflon tape cured it. | ||
| Treadmarks |
Mine was weeping as well. First oil change, I removed the line and inspected the ends, cleaned it, coated the nut thread lightly with antisieze and put it back together. Not a weep since. I think the antisieze helps to get the nut tight enough to allow the mating surfaces to conform and reduce the tendency to weep. | ||
| Roadrailer |
If you wipe it off does it come back? I ask because I had the same light film on my fittings. I wiped it off and it never returned.  | ||
| Towjam |
Yeah - I've just gotten in the habit of wiping it off whenever I think about it - and it always has some oil and gunk on it. | ||
| Davy_boy |
I just tightened my lines a little when I bought it and it has not leaked since. Over 11,000 miles ! | ||
| Punkid8888 |
Yea my 06 has always had a slight film on one of the fittings but not the other. I just wipe it for fear of murphys law (If it not broke dont fix it) but now both fitting have the film so I might try a little teflon tape or antisieze. good to know that it appears no one has had a major leak | ||
| Spike |
Not sure how it translates to the rest of the world, but for warranty purposes Harley describes a seep as dry dust forming and a weep as wet dust forming. Back on topic- it's common to see some weepage/seepage on the oil cooler fittings of XBs. It seems to be harmless, it usually doesn't ever get any worse if left alone. If you want it gone sometimes you can get away with just tightening the fittings, but the better fix is to drain the oil, remove the lines, clean the threads, coat them with teflon tape/sealant, and then reinstall. | ||
| Trojan |
Be very careful when tightening the oil connections at the cooler (and elsewhere for that matter!) Buell use cheap plated steel oil unions, but the oil cooler connections are a much softer metal (alloy?). Anyway, I know from experience that it is extremely easy to strip the threads on the cooler without even trying. Every XB that I have owned (4 so far) has leaked oil from the cooler lines, and one (a 2006 Uly) has actually snapped an oil union where feed pipe from the swingarm screws into the back of the oil pump, resulting in complete loss of oil and a ruined engine in less than 5 minutes  As this was never removed or even touched from new (the bike had less than 300 miles on at that time) I can only assume it had been overtightened at the factory and stress fractured. As it was on the race bike I didn't bother trying to claim under the warranty but jst repaired it ourselves. | ||
| Spatten1 |
"Anyway, I know from experience that it is extremely easy to strip the threads on the cooler without even trying." Ditto: Also, the line from the front of the engine to the oil cooler has a horrible bend and is very tough to line up, has a lot of tension on it, and is easy to cross thread. Be careful with that one, and loosen the whole oil cooler bracket if you need to, to get it lined up without tension. Why do wet sumps suck again? | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
My '05 Firebolt was dry as a bone (a really dry bone out lying in the desert, not a bone in your leg all surrounded by squishy, wet muscle and blood and stuff!), and I began thinking, "Hey! Isn't this thing a Harley at its core? And isn't a Harley supposed to leak a little?", so I loosened my oil cooler line a little. Now I can point to it when "real" bikers tell me to get a Harley.  HellBuelly J "Formula for success: Rise early, ride your Buell, work hard, ride your Buell, strike oil." --John P3aul Getty | ||
| Xbeau12s |
My 04 had that same problem. Drove me freakin nuts. I'd go for a long ride in the hot sun and it would be all over the top of my muffler and I have the race muffler and it really shows up on there. I reluctantly took it to the dealership after I found out the hard way not to tighten them too tight (doh!) they replaced the elbow on the oil line with a different material (bronze) I think and it stopped it although I think it still "weeps" a little but not near as much as it used to. I've grown to live with it. | ||
| Spike |
Not to open this can of worms, but what does being dry-sump have to do with an oil cooler? Plenty of wet-sump motors also run oil coolers. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think there are 5 oil lines on the XB vs. two on a wet sump engine with an oil cooler. But...good point, you would still have that fitting on any oil cooler engine. My point is really that most of the fittings leak, which you will learn if you have to pull your engine. 5 lines, average of 2 mating surfaces on each end, 2 ends on each line, that is 20 places to leak oil. My engine was filthy in all of the places you don't see unless you remove the engine. There must have been 5 or 6 weeping fittings. I was so annoyed I just put it back together, I did not take a few hours to clean exterior of the parts. At this point I just want to ride, dirt be damned. | ||
| Towjam |
My point is really that most of the fittings leak, which you will learn if you have to pull your engine. 5 lines, average of 2 mating surfaces on each end, 2 ends on each line, that is 20 places to leak oil. My engine was filthy in all of the places you don't see unless you remove the engine. There must have been 5 or 6 weeping fittings. It's these problems that Harley is trying to eliminate by going to totally enclosed oil lines in the '07 Tourers and Dynas. I realize with an oil cooler you're going to have to have exposed lines and fittings but I have to wonder why Buell hasn't addressed this in the 6 years that the XB has been in production. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Towjam, That is really interesting, I did not know about the enclosed oil lines. | ||
| Towjam |
Towjam, That is really interesting, I did not know about the enclosed oil lines. Yep - first introduced in the '06 Dynas and then brought over to the '07 baggers. The Softails still have the underseat oil tanks so they still have the exposed lines (as do the Sporties). But if you look at the baggers and Dynas, they have a very clean, uncluttered look with all the oil lines being fully enclosed in the engine casing. In the dealer training documentation, HD points out that this was done to "reduce maintenance and improve reliability". (They also went as far as to integrate the oil filter adapter.) Ok, now I'm on a roll. On all the BT models, HD also replaced the manual primary tensioner with an automatic tensioner so that there's not even a primary inspection cover now. I would hope to see some of these reliability enhancements trickle down to the Buells for '08. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Wow, an automatic chain tensioner too!!! I wonder what the advantage is to run all those internal oil lines instead of a wet sump, with so many less parts and fittings? I know some people here hate wet sumps, but I can't remember why. I like it for simplicity. Oil flows downhill through holes, less parts, less leaks. Ferrari uses a dry sump so they can get the engine lower. That does not seem to be an issue for motorcycles, especially considering how high XB engines are. You could fit four wet sumps under my lightning engine and still have plenty of clearance. There must be another advantage to the dry sump, I just can't recall what it is. Cooling? | ||
| Spatten1 |
Found an answer: Dry sump systems have several important advantages over wet sumps: Because a dry sump does not need to have an oil pan big enough to hold the oil under the engine, the main mass of the engine can be placed lower in the vehicle. This helps lower the center of gravity and can also help aerodynamics (by allowing a lower hoodline). The oil capacity of a dry sump can be as big as you want. The tank holding the oil can be placed anywhere on the vehicle. In a wet sump, turning, braking and acceleration can cause the oil to pool on one side of the engine. This sloshing can dip the crankshaft into the oil as it turns or uncover the pump's pick-up tube. Excess oil around the crankshaft in a wet sump can get on the shaft and cut horsepower. Some people claim improvements of as much as 15 horsepower by switching to a dry sump. The disadvantage of the dry sump is the increased weight, complexity and cost from the extra pump and the tank -- but that's a small price to pay for such big benefits! I'm not sure how many of these really apply to the XB, but the HP advantage sure makes sense. Hard to say GSXRs starve for oil in corners! | ||
| Spike |
I haven't looked into the OEM HD unit, but Hayden has been making a spring loaded primary chain tensioner for quite a few years. They work well in an HD application, but in a Buell where much higher RPM is reached they aren't very effective. The high loads placed on the tensioner when decelerating from high RPM can be enough to overcome a spring loaded tensioner and allow excess slack in the primary chain. A heavier spring could be used, but that would also increase drag on the chain. Also, the Hayden units don't have any dampening, so the tensioner will occasionally start to bounce as intermittent power pulses are delivered through the primary drive. A dampened unit with the proper spring tension for the intended purpose might be able to work well, but I don't see much of a problem with the current manual adjustment. Once a bike is fully broken in the primary tension usually doesn't need to be adjusted.
Here's another for that list: Since the dry-sump engine is only ever holding enough oil to lubricate the engine and the rest of the oil is in the oil tank, it's less critical to keep a specific oil level. The dry-sump engine doesn't care if you run the oil level low as long as there is enough oil to circulate through the crankcase and back through the lines to the oil tank. There will be increased oil temperature since there is less oil to transfer the heat away from the engine, but the engine will maintain proper lubrication. This is not the case in a wet-sump engine. Since the oil pump pickup is sitting in the oil pan with the oil, it is dependent on proper oil level for a sufficient supply of oil to the pump. Run the oil low and you run greater risk of the oil pump sucking up air, which results in insufficient lubrication. | ||
| M1combat |
"In a wet sump, turning, braking and acceleration can cause the oil to pool on one side of the engine. This sloshing can dip the crankshaft into the oil as it turns or uncover the pump's pick-up tube." Which is why you don't find too many 351 Clevelands any more... Sadly they starve for oil around right hand turns unless baffled. There are mods to solve the problem, but they weren't delivered that way from the factory. | ||
| Towjam |
work well in an HD application, but in a Buell where much higher RPM is reached they aren't very effective. Huh? There's relatively little difference in the RPM range of a Harley TC and a Buell XB12 - although you may keep the Buell closer to redline for longer periods. (Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever redlined an Harley.) | ||
| Spike |
I think you answered that one yourself. The TC may rev to 5500rpm or 6200rpm (depending on model) compared to the XB12s 6800rpm, but the likelihood of seeing that rpm or spending any time there is much lower in the HD application. There's no way to know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of Harleys that have seen the rev limiter is similar to the number of Buells that have not seen the rev limiter. |
