| Author |
Message |
    
Darthane
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 09:52 pm: | 
|
::sigh::
You know, Blake, if your consarned website had kept the capitalization that I originally created my username with, I wouldn't have to point this out. EZ probably gets it  ...if you're going to shorten my username, it would be Darth...Darth Ane, as in Darth Vader  Or just use my name, that's why I put it at the bottom of every post. 
LOL...I'm not sure why I suddenly switched to calling him Skulley - I'd been replying to him as Keith for two days...and I didn't realize that there were two of them (Skulley/Skully). My apologies.
I will certainly see if getting the plot files themselves is possible. Spidey may have to e-mail them home from work, but I'll bring a disk just to see if they'll do it that way.
Bryan
edited by darthane on June 04, 2003 |
Skully
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
|
Bud-
On the way home from work today, I put my hand on the "tank" cover and twisted the throttle wide open. After nearly being thrown off the back of the bike I realized what you are referring to.
The cover does vibrate when you first open the throttle but settles down pretty quickly. I'll bet you are correct that cutting the holes in the air box allows any pulses from the intake to vibrate the "cover". I don't think it will hurt anything. How the heck did you notice that anyway?
And I'll say it again for the record: my bike with the Buell Race ECM is definitely NOT lean. The air/fuel ratio plot referenced above is quantitative proof. I am looking forward to seeing what Bryan's set up looks like on the dyno with the sniffer plugged in.
Bryan- trust me, I've been called worse by Blake! But thanks anyway.
Cheers,
Keith |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 11:10 pm: |
|
Who'll be the first to drill holes in their airbox outer cover? |
Fasteddieb
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 12:29 am: |
|
<<Who'll be the first to drill holes in their airbox outer cover? >>
or just have the cojones to ride without it! |
Bud
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 02:10 am: |
|
Keith,
I notice the vibration because my normal riding position is with my balls on the cover, 
I had a feeling that it was running lean, but that can be weather related ( it was hot & humid over here )
I think i go all the way, and take the plunge an make the Darthane plate, if I can find the time
Btw, never notices the hidden profile
Gr, martin
|
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 06:33 am: |
|
Blake, I think Joey already did that...didn't he say something about using the rear heel guards to 'pretty' it up?
Eddie, LOL...that would look pretty weird...make an already head-turning bike even more so. Fuel tank vent line flapping in the breeze and all.
Bud, I may hve an extra plate after the Northeast Adventure...if I do I'll let you know and all you'd have to do would be to mount it.
Bryan
edited by darthane on June 05, 2003 |
Ar15ls1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 07:48 am: |
|
Yes, I drilled two 1-3/4" holes in my blue airbox cover. One on each side under the buell name. Then I covered them up with the modified(cleaned up) rear heel guards. From about 6 ft away it looks real good but close up you can see the defects of my silicon job. It doesnt look bad but it also is not perfect. I used the same silicon to bond my velocity stack. The color matches the buell blue almost perfect. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:21 am: |
|
Joey,
I know it's kind of late for this now, but it just occurred to me that using the little Uni 1" filter plugs would allow a fairly good 'finished product' look to any holes cut in the outside cover. Hmm...I've got six of them in the (unused currently) top airbox cover...might be something worth trying, though not right now. I'd want to find out how much a new outer cover would cost me if I !$#% it up, first! LOL If I ever do that I'll be sure to post pics of how it comes out.
Is anyone else thinking that we need subtopics set up more like the THUMPer Forum in here? We've gone far afield from exhausts in this thread now. Blake, how about creating some permanent sub-topics like in EZ's realm?
Bryan |
Skully
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:30 am: |
|
"Keith,
I notice the vibration because my normal riding position is with my balls on the cover"
*sigh* I guess mine are smaller than yours or I just sit farther back! 
Bud- I can assure you that unless there is a defect in your Race ECM, it is not running lean under any weather conditions. It is most likely WAY rich and that may be what you are referring to?
When I go back to the dyno, I'll get runs with and without the "tank" cover to see if it has become the limiting factor.
Bryan- exactly what runs do you have planned for tomorrow? Consider getting runs with and without the "tank" cover while recording air/fuel ratios.}
BTW, I have or had dyno data showing the Splitfire plugs actually caused a slight loss of power. I'll see if I can dig it up if you are interested.
Keith |
Aaron
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:47 am: |
|
Bryan, yes, torque is what makes you move but horsepower is what describes how much torque you'll get to the rear wheel at any given ground speed. Don't confuse torque on a dyno sheet with torque at the rear wheel! |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 08:55 am: |
|
LOL...yes, Aaron, I remember fondly reading your (sometimes long-winded but always interesting) explanations on HP vs FT/LBS to pavement, based on RPMs, gearing, wheel size, etc. Given that a XB without serious work will always have a higher HP to FT/LB ratio than a tuber, and I don't know (anymore, anyways, too long since I took physics and I'm an E/E engineer, not mechanical) the exact relationships, all I can say is this puppy accelerates like MAD at mid-high RPMs, and that is what's important to me.
Bryan |
Bud
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 09:03 am: |
|
Keith,
I’m referring lean running with fan blowing action,
There should be a connection between the two,
but probably not a correct way to measure
and I think if it really lean , the check engine light should go on ?
no light seen so far, just me being concerned .
Bryan,
Thanks fore the offer, but I’m in holland
And I have a shied alu 3 mil to thinker with, only no time to thinker
Gr,martin
|
Easyrider
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:57 am: |
|
Bud, you should make the time to thinker
|
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 07:56 pm: |
|
Since this has become the intake mod thread.
I was wondering ... what if I got one of these and cut a hole as far back as I could, so it would be over the O2 sensor?
That way I wouldn't have to cut the stack, or drill holes all over, or worry about the seal for the inner filter...
Thoughts? Comments?
|
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:17 pm: |
|
Over the O2 sensor? I was scratching my head trying to figure out what the heck you were meaning. The O2 sensor is mounted in your rear exhaust headpipe.
I like the idea of adding more filter/intake area on top of the airbox.
I think the sensor you are thinking is the O2 sensor is the intake air temperature sensor. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 10:19 pm: |
|
And just look at the pretty colors...
|
Glitch
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 07:26 pm: |
|
I think the sensor you are thinking is the O2 sensor is the intake air temperature sensor.
DOH! |
Skully
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 10:15 pm: |
|
Bryan- How did the dyno testing go?
Bud- "I’m referring lean running with fan blowing action,
There should be a connection between the two,
but probably not a correct way to measure
and I think if it really lean , the check engine light should go on ?
no light seen so far, just me being concerned ."
I think I finally understand what you are saying. The fact that the fan is on after a hard run and/or in warm weather probably means everything is normal.
Take a look in your owner's manual under "General" (page 31 in the 2003 XB9S manual). It says "If a fuel-injected engine exceeds normal operating temperature, the engine will operate in a "skip spark" mode until the temperature is back in the normal operating range... The check engine lamp will blink warning the rider of this condition".
The fact that you have not experienced either of these conditions further reinforces my position that your bike is not running lean or hot.
Hope this helps,
Keith |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:38 am: |
|
Blake:
So if I put one of these directly over the stack all should be well? I thought (I know thats what I get) that little sensor did something other than air temp. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 02:27 pm: |
|
Keith,
Sorry this took so long. I did not get a chance to get back on the BadWeb before running off for the NorthEast Adventure.
Blake, give me an address to send them to and I will e-mail you the DynoJet files to post, then once you get them up and let me know where to find them I will post explanations of each one.
Bryan |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 03:56 pm: |
|
Blake@BadWeatherBikers.com |
Darthane
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:26 pm: |
|
Sent. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 01:12 am: |
|
Back to ya.  |
Gt75074
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 08:09 am: |
|
I just hit 700KM (we're metric up here in the Great White North) last nite and thought I'd offer a few observations to the board for feedback. First off, I absolutely LOVE the XB9S - I've been restoring and racing vintage Ducati twins for a while now and the Buell is part of my transition to a lower maintenance lifestyle. I sold both of my bevel drive Ducs this year and picked up (and restored) a '88 750 F1 with an 818 kit. The Buell's in the same horsepower league as the F1, and like the F1, will spend half it's life on the racetrack.
I had the race kit installed before I picked up the bike, and it seems to be the source of the only complaints I have with the bike so far. It's very slow to return to idle (either when blipping the throttle or simply deccelerating), and backfires a fair bit as the revs fall below 2,600rpm. Runs best when cold. My dealer left the snorkel on when they installed the kit, and the bike ran worse when I removed it. So far, I've been breaking the bike in by the book and from the threads that I've read on this and other boards, I'm wondering if the ECM hasn't been able to learn the new system given the fact that the bike has been running at low load and rpm. ...Although I'm doubting that that would have an impact on the slow return to idle. My dealer's basically a Harley shop, so I'm looking to the owner community to tell me what "normal" is. Any thoughts? |
Darthane
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 08:29 am: |
|
See dyno charts and explanations here - http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=174110#POST 174110
Gt75074,
Leave the snorkel out. It is very restrictive and the bike breathes much better without it. Mine also does the slow return to idle thing, no amount of TPS resetting has fixed it (I was recently told to have the AFV manually reset to 100...anyone know what this does precisely?). My bike also backfires, but only under hard engine braking (which it was subjected to a LOT the last week...twisties!).
Try having the ECM flashed (TPS reset) and now that you're through the break-in, immediately afterwards go ride it at about 4500rpms for a couple minutes to help the ECM learn the proper AFV, then let us know if it's any better.
Bryan |
Skully
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 01:44 pm: |
|
Hey Bryan,
No problem! I figured that your delayed response must have been caused by a trip.
I'm asking Blake to overlay our best dyno runs. It's interesting that removing the gas "tank" cover makes that much difference.
Steve,
After I made modifications to my air box (see above), my bike ran a little rough for a couple of days. I guess it took a few miles for the ECM to reset the AFV. Now it runs great!
Keith
|
Gt75074
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 10:34 pm: |
|
Thanks for the feedback gentlemen..I stopped by the dealer this evening and made an appointment on Friday to get the ECM flashed and the TPS manually set - although the eyes glazed-over at the dealership when I started talking about this stuff. I shouldnb't be too hard on them, they've been incredibly honest about their lack of experience with the XBs and willing to help. I hit the 800KM (500MI) mark this evening and started to run the bike up to 4,,500 and 5,000 RPM under 1/2 throttle. I'm impressed with the power and can't wait to thrash the bike at the track on the 14th and 15th of July. After about 45 min of more spirited riding, the backfiring began to diminish and the bike started to idle better - so I'm becoming a believer in the ECM's learning capabilities. Still runs like crap when cold and backfires like mad for the first 15 min. The plan for Friday is to ditch the snorkel, do the resets, and see what happens over the weekend. Great ride this evening - I don't regret the decision to buy the bike in the least. |
Gt75074
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:29 pm: |
|
Though I'd update you folks on the latest... Last nite I removed the snorkel and ran the bike in the 4 - 5,000RPM range with occasional bursts to 6,000 and it began to improve in a big way. What was interesting was that the power bump that was previously hitting at 5,000 dropped down to about 4,600 after removing the snorkel. Still real slow re5turning to idle and backfiring a lot under 3,000 on deceleration. I dropped it off at the dealer today and they reset the ECM and AFV. The result is a more civilized bike that still is slow to return to idle (but much improved) and almost zero backfires. Unfortunately, the power hit moved back up to 5,000RPM... Go figure... The dealer mentioned that Harley indicated that there is a new rev of ECM and are going to try and bring one in for me. In any case, and exceptional ride this evening up in the hills north of Ottawa and a sense that this will all sort itself out with a bit of patience and perseverance. As a side note, I ran my '87 Ducati 750Fi (highly modified) and the Buell back-to-back last nite. My sense is that I'll be able to turn similar lap times at Grattan with both bikes. |
Darthane
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 08:22 am: |
|
What's this about a new rev to the ECM? I have a very early race kit - I've been wondering for a long time if they'd made any upgrades in the software.
Bryan |
Captainplanet
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 09:42 am: |
|
GT75074,
Try backing the manual idle down to a bit lower rpm. That may take care of the slow return to idle. At least it did on my bike. I keep the idle on mine at about 900rpm. |
Apex1
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 01:45 am: |
|
I am seriously considering cutting into the stock muffler as previously suggested here, and also modifying the airbox similar to the Force style set-up(ditch the stock lid for a homemade cover). Anyone tried this combo in conjunction with a stock ECM? What can I expect? Any recomendations? |
Captainplanet
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:55 am: |
|
Apex1,
I cut into and modified my stock muffler. I am using the stock ecm. I haven't yet done anything to the air box. The bike runs great. It sounds a lot better. After doing my modification to the stock muffler, I can tell you that there is an easier way to do it rather than cutting the whole end off of the muffler. All you really need to do is cut a hole in the right place at the back of the muffler (with a hole saw on a drill) and then do the same on the rear cross pipe inside the muffler. Then all you have to reweld is the outside hole cutout instead of the entire rear section. I posted a pic here earlier that will show you the location to cut. |
Apex1
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 01:33 pm: |
|
Cap'n,
Thanks for the info. Have you had a chance to dyno it? What are your riding impressions with this mod? I cut into mine & fabbed up an air cleaner cover, too. Sounds nice, & ran without problems all weekend. I haven't had it on a dyno yet, though. That's the only way to see what it has done performance wise. |
Captainplanet
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 02:51 pm: |
|
I haven't had mine back on a dyno. I doubt I will. I can't really tell any difference in power, but it sure sounds great now. Of course, I must be one of the few people who thinks the XB has plenty of power for the street. |
|
