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Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through January 08, 2007 » Free Spirits Extra Trail Kit « Previous Next »

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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I am thinking of giving this product a try. Curious if any of youz have given it a try and your opinion as to how it worked, Good or Bad.

I am about 220 with full gear and think the extra trail may help a little in the corners, But I am no expert in this department.

Gentleman_jon Wrote some interesting stuff related to this and I am curious to learn more on this. He wrote

I think a thread on the Free Spirits extra trail kit might be interesting.
The kit requires a special tool to install, that cost more than the part, so a scheme to lend or rent out the tool might be a good idea.

The extra trail kit thread might also be a place to discuss the rather unique features of the Buell short wheelbase geometry, which is unique in the industry.

Buell insiders have hinted at "secret " parameters in the design of the motorcycle. I believe that everyone would benefit from a more open discussion of them.

For example, the extreme fork angle of the front fork, is thought to produce short trail. Actually, the trail and fork angle, whilst related, can be selected independently. One of the results of the steeper fork angle rarely mentioned in the popular press is the fact that motorcycle attitude changes less when turning with a smaller fork angle. One assumes there are other consequences as well.

Another item is the question of center of gravity. It appears to me that the CG of the Buell might be rather more different from other bikes than normally presumed. I think it may be further forward, and in spite of the lowering of the oil and fuel "tanks", the CG is not particularly low, nor should it be. For a given turn radius and speed, a higher CG result in less, not more lean being required.

It has occurred to me, especially after riding the XB12Ss for the first time, with it's "conventional" geometry, that someone at Buell may think that the "radical" geometry of the short wheelbase models is not suitable for every rider in every situation. I believe that larger riders, such as myself, ( 6-2" 235# in gear), benefit from measures to increase stability, while other smaller, more agile riders might not.

I, for one, would welcome some input on these items from someone alot more knowledgeable on these subjects than I am, preferably someone who might be privy to Buell thinking in these areas.

Another topic might be the question of Chain Pull angle and how it affects bikes with the large XB12 belt pulley versus the small rear chain sprocket on chain conversion models, including the Buell XBRR.
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so what do you all think on this? Maybe youz with more experience on the subject can chime in here and shed some much needed light.
Thanks in advance!
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Gentleman_jon
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 07:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here is the product description from the Adrenalin - Moto site, one of our sponsors.


ddd


"Most Buell riders will have experienced a feeling off lightness or a 'twitchy' front end feeling when driving into a fast corner, especially with the S model.

After many hours of road tests and experimentation (at first using steering dampers) we realised the problem was the trail of the bike, so we built an affordable solution for this problem.

The new XB Trail Kit solves the problem by giving the steering neck an extra 2 degree rake bringing it to 23 degree (The same as the XB12SS & XB12X).

The kit contains a complete set of bearings and raked cup that can be mounted without any modification straight into the original steering neck."

The trail kit requires a special tool for installation.
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Ronlv
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i have not tried these yet, but the owner of freespirits tells me they work great

on my next order i am going to get some and give it a try

i then can give my opinion, if that means anything
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What type of tool is req'd? Something I can make or borrow for the installation? I don't really want to buy a tool and use it once/twice. Especially if it cost more than the kit. I plan to order it this week sometime.

ronlv do you deal with freespirits directly? PM me a price if you are ordering one and I will get it through you.
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Gentleman_jon
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The mounting tool is available only to dealers. It cost 79 euros.

This is what it looks like:


xxx


I don't know how it works, looks like some kind of clamp with an offset, doesn't it?
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

.....Why did I have that feeling for some reason!? There must be a way to do this mod without the need of a dealer, I hate being at the mercy of them guys.
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Glitch
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Looks like a bearing puller.
If it's like the special tool for the wheel bearings, you're best to do it right, and borrow the tool.
If it's the same tool they use at the service dept. just ask to borrow it.
We get to use tools every now and again.
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V8basil
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That looks like a steering head race installer HD part # 39302, also need steering head bearing installer to with that I think # 45521, just my 2 cents worth.
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So the tool needed is a typical head bearing/racer tool? I wont be buying a tool for the free spirits kit only? Just trying to be clear it is not a "specialized" tool due to the offset in the kit.

Glitch if our dealers were as helpful as yours I would ask no problem, even buy them lunch etc..etc..for letting me borrow/rent it. But they are some of the worst in my book so I tend to stay FAR FAR away from them.
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Disturbed
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why not just get the suspension set up right?

Why de-tune a great chassis?

(Message edited by disturbed on December 29, 2006)
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What makes you think it is not set up right?

Who is de-tuning? PLEASE explain how you came to this......
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Teddagreek
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Has anyone ridden a SS....

Handles like Bolt...

If you can't change the ergos change the bike..

Keep us posted.....
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Disturbed
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 02:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why set it up to act like a longer bike than it is? I'm no suspension guru, I just think it is set the way it should be. There are suspension tweaks that can be done to solve the "problem".

Like I said, I'm no expect, I love to self educate via healthy discussion though.

Maybe I don't understand the bennies of this 2* change.
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Norrie
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think it would be very important to ensure that the kit is installed straight.
i.e.The angle of the bearing is facing forwards instead of slightly off angle.
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes I agree Norrie, I Don't mind buying the tool if it works on other bikes also, but to spend that cash on a kit and use it once/twice is a little silly to me.

But then in the end if you want to play you got to pay....

Hopefully ronlv will chime in here and shed some light on what exactly would be needed.

I will ring ya this weekend ron...just saw my emails..Thanks!

(Message edited by firebolteric_ma on December 29, 2006)
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M1combat
Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Use less muscle on the bars. Be gentle. Grip with the legs : ).

The bike handles just fine. You start adding rake and you'll find the bike to be less stable over mid-corner bumps at high lean angles.
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Trojan
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Happy New Year guys : )

The tool for fitting these should be deemed essential, and they should not be fitted without it unless you are extremely confident.
The bearings are fitted into raked cups that must be fitted absolutely perfectly, otherwise your forks may be leaning to one side!!

What we have decided to do is to buy a fitting kit and lend it to customers wishing to fit these bearings. There will be a deposit payable that will be refunded once the kit is returned in good condition.

Contrary to what M1Combat says, adding rake will actually make the bike more stable, not less. The XB12SS and Ulysses already utilise the same rake angle as this kit gives, and they are much less prone to headshake than the previous S models. We have raced with the XB12X frame (23 degree rake) last year and have had no need for a steering damper at all, even with the rear ride height raised to quicken the steering. The steering has remained fast and speed of direction changes are unaffected.
With the 'old' XB9R frame we need a damper at certain circuits, particularly where surface changes and overbanding were a problem.
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Trojan!!!!!

Was hoping you would chime in here.
I was just going to call you this afternoon and get the "real scoop" on these kits. Someone with some Experience with them and has Real Knowlege in this field.
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