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Percyco
| | Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 07:30 pm: | 
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The RR1000 was not the first Buell
}No kidding !.......
} |
Percyco
| | Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 07:40 pm: |
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Erik Buell's career with Harley-Davidson began in 1979 when he joined the Company as a Junior Test Engineer. He worked in a series of positions including Product Engineer, Project Engineer and Senior Project Engineer until Erik left the Motor Company in 1983 to build his own Buell racing motorcycles. In 1987, he formally incorporated the Buell Motorcycle Company. He then approached Harley-Davidson to acquire engines for his first series of street motorcycles. Since that time, all Buell motorcycles have used powertrains supplied by Harley-Davidson. In 1993, Harley-Davidson acquired 49 percent of Buell Motorcycle Company and by 2003, H-D acquired 100 percent of the Buell Motorcycle Company. |
Jiffy
| | Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 08:21 pm: |
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Why water cooled? Almost every company that makes or has made air cooled engines has also added models that use water cooled engines so I assume there is a reason they do this. The company does not have to stop making air cooled bikes too, but they can make both water and air cooled bikes.
Harley, Porsche, BMW, Ducati ...etc. All companies that made their mark using air cooled engines and all have water cooled engines in their lineup now.
It also doesn't have to be water cooled but many people say why water cooled and the question is why not.
Why do this for Buell asks Percyco and why would any old school Harley rider want that product? Harley riders are not the only people who buy Buell percyco. I have never owned a Harley Davidson and I like Buell and Harley but nostalgia is not all Buell is about. I am positive I am not the only Buell enthusiast who has never owned a Harley.
If Buell added more choices to their line up then you would get more customers. Ducati has done this with their company and it appears relatively successful. Customers enjoy variety. To see Buell grow is what I hope for and more customers help growth.
To say shoppers should look elsewhere for the bike that they wish Buell built is not an argument it is a closed minded statement from people who do not like change. Some of us see the possible success in a Buell bike that has more horse power, water cooled,or contends with japanese race replica bikes. I'm sure Erik is working on it and is perfecting it the way he has done with BMC.
Funny thing is I am not the type of customer looking for a 150hp water cooled race replica, but I have read on many a Rider forums guys that would buy a Buell in a heart beat if they had more oomph or better spec sheets. I say build one for them.
(Message edited by jiffy on January 01, 2007) |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 08:43 pm: |
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quote:"Buell motorcycles have been powered by H-D engines since the beginning of time."
That is an inaccurate statement. |
Percyco
| | Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 09:28 pm: |
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Here....let me rewrite that line for the folks that can't seem to get my drift due to my poor writing skills.
"Since it's beginning in 1987, the Buell Motorcycle COMPANY has used H-D engines."
I am well aware of such projects as the Barton before 1987, but thats not what I was referring to at all.
Cheers |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, January 01, 2007 - 11:12 pm: |
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Buy the bike you want. Waiting for one particular manufacturer to build the bike you want is silly. |
Percyco
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 04:05 pm: |
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Good point Blake.......
And speaking of the Barton Project, are there any sources on-line with photos of early pre-company Buells like the Barton ?
I think it would be interesting to see some pics.
Thanks |
Jscott
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 05:32 pm: |
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"And speaking of the Barton Project, are there any sources on-line with photos of early pre-company Buells like the Barton ?"
Courtesy of Dave Gess...
http://www.davegess.com/buelhist/rw750/index.htm |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 07:07 pm: |
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"pre-company"?
Seemed like a company. . . In fact at the time, it felt like General Motors and U.S. Steel combined! |
Molly_hatchet
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 07:37 pm: |
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if buell was building a high horsepower watercooled crotch rocket from hell...wouldnt most of us be on another forum discussing the woes of the air cooled underpowered vtwin beast that we bought instead of that buell thing that all the kids seem to be raving about...think about it. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 07:55 pm: |
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If Buell would just go ahead and build a water cooled I-4, we could race them like all the other "cool kids" do....
In the magazine stat sheets.  |
M1combat
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 02, 2007 - 10:42 pm: |
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LOL |
Jiffy
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 06:48 pm: |
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Magazine stat sheets sell bikes like it or not. Not to me but to many others. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 07:13 pm: |
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Magazine stat sheets sell bikes like it or not.
When can WE get a "17,000" RPM Tach? 
I work in an industry that does "banding", packaging products together at particular unit counts and prices to match most common comparison points. As a result when you call for 500,000 units, a common bundle count, you get a price that is lower than 499,999. In stead of making a product that works, the companies cheat to make the stat sheets look good.
If that happens to Buell, I will be looking for another brand. Instead of the big 4, it will just be the big five. At that point, what does it matter which one I buy.
They'll all be the same.
Just look at the stat sheets.
(Message edited by ft_bstrd on January 03, 2007) |
Molly_hatchet
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 07:32 pm: |
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so true...when i went shopping for a new bike i sat on all of them, read all the stats,endured terrible service (one salesman actualy walked away while i was telling him i wanted a zx6RR) harley isnt the only dealer that that ignores their customers by the way. i got bored pretty fast dealing with all that and they all seemed the same cept for the colors...i stopped at a harley dealer and saw that yellow 9 sittin out front asked a few questions sat on it....bought it on the spot and have been learning about it ever since....my bike has soul and is a part of me....the jap bikes are nice no doubt so are the ducattis and apprila's and mv agustas and whatever else from someone that just likes bikes period i think they all serve a purpose and i like most of them even cruisers and choppers but i love my bike if buell someday makes a competitor for the jap screamers... well then sweet...im not holding my breath .il just be the hooligan i am and be happy with what i got. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 09:47 pm: |
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>>>>Magazine stat sheets sell bikes like it or not.
The good news is that very few motorcyclists EVER read a motorcycle magazine.
Seemed odd to me the first time I heard the numbers but like the internet, it's a teensy weensy portion of the population. |
Hotdog271
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 10:18 pm: |
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Buell's are Buell's, and that is what they are. Tuff, bad ass bikes. We bought them for those reasons. Liquid cooled is a great concept and one day Buell will evolve to this I am sure. Who ever thought that Harley Davidson would make a bike with a liquid cooled engine. Or at least a Porche engine. (how about that, an XB with a VRSC motor, I would buy one.)
But until then Buell uses air cooled V-twins. A much more practical motor for street applications. How many people riding I4's can actually ride them close to the fullest potential of the bike. Maybe 1 in 1000. IF they could they wouldn't need a hybusa because the 750's would be fast enough.
Buell could use a 6th gear, and even some more horsepower, but lets face it, we all bought them anyway.
To increase sales, Buell needs to market the product better, and have better dealers. The last dealer I called about a Buell question, took three people to finally find out what I was talking about. And try finding accessories or even a T-shirt at most Buell dealers. Good luck. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 10:42 pm: |
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I ride with a guy that rides a 97 Bandit. It's a complete piece of crap that burns as much oil as it does gas. It's been repainted 14 times and is held together with duct tape. He regularly backward mounts race take-off slicks that barely have 500 miles left on them when he gets them.
The rider is a short, fat 50+ year old guy that looks like Wilford Brimley.
Besides being one of the nicest guys you would ever want to meet, he is the rider I hope one day to be.
It wouldn't matter what I rode, I couldn't catch him. EVER. Even when his wife (who has bigger balls than me) rides 2-up with him. I'm just glad he believes in "riding your own ride" and waits at stop signs and road turns. He has skills I simply don't have. Other riders on equally capable bikes can't catch him either.
That said, I would say that 90% of us can't use the maximum potential of the bikes we have. The spec sheets are mostly about straight line numbers. They mean very little to what the end ride is like. They assume that EVERY rider can squeeze the maximum potential out of the bikes (like the testers do). The issue is that a Buell can take a mediocre rider and make them a better rider by removing some of the components of the ride that prevent riders from maximizing the full potential of their bikes.
When I can squeeze 110% of the performance my bike has, you will hear me back here complaining about my crappy underpowered Buell.
Until then, I have several miles before that happens and will probably be a fat 50+ guy riding an old Buell that burns as much oil as gas and (because I still won't be able to get more than 3,000 miles out of a set of tires) will be riding backward mounted race take-offs! |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 11:43 pm: |
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I'm that fat 50 year old, I was there when that W.Brimly look alike guy(more like 60) cruised by me as I was wrenching the Uly through a fast banked corner thinking that I was really smokin' it.
He is so smooth and fast. You don't even hear his bike running as he blows by. Smooth....very smooth. He was impressive to watch and a real cool guy to talk to. His bike is so old I thought at first that it was a real quiet two stroke with all of its smoke.
If I ever get to the riding plateau that he is on, it'd be time to quit. There would be nothing to look forward to.
Ft_ I enjoyed the day.....thanks again! |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:03 am: |
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I wish 116 wasn't covered in snot, but yeah, it was a great day! I can't wait for spring!
Winter Sucks! |
Molly_hatchet
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 02:02 am: |
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stat sheets sell bikes to kids that usualy end up dying on the gsxr 1000 they bought cause it was the baddest bike they could find....i think the biggest problem we have is that other people think the buell is a heap....it is greatly misunderstood...like most things different it has to endure great critisism and has to prove itself tenfold before it will be accepted...buell has many years of catching up to do ..i think so far it the buell brand has done well to present itself i find way more people just this year that seem to know a little bit about my bke than when i bought it...a cop at a gas station just a few days ago stopped in front of my bike looked at me and said hey thats a buell pretty nice bike fire it up i wanna hear it....i lit it up he smiled i got the hell outta there....anywhoo the problem i see is other people dont think the buell is the shit so we feel left out. |
Scooter808484
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 10:47 am: |
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harley isn't the only dealer that that ignores their customers by the way.
No kidding...I went down to the BMW dealer all set up to buy a K1200R. Since I took a wife and daughter with me, I guess I didn't match their profile. Wrestled someone to the ground and asked if they do test rides. Got a lecture about how big and scary this bike is. 80 ft lb peak, psshhh... I got a tractor HD motor that will do a lot better than that. Got to thinking, just another I-4, rev the heck out of it to make power, drop the cams every 5000 to adjust valves, crappy gas mileage.
I'll keep my Uly with its tractor engine. Put plugs and oil in it and ride. They could chop some weight out of the flywheels, increase displacement etc, but there's nothing inherently wrong with a pushrod engine.
Racing is about the only reason a short stroke, high revving overhead cam engine came about in the first place. Unless you were up against a displacement limit, placed by a rule book, there's no reason you'd do all that stuff. You'd just make the engine bigger. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 10:54 am: |
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"You'd just make the engine bigger."
The only problem with that is more weight and shorter swingarm, both of which are tough on handling. |
Scooter808484
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 11:08 am: |
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.... true, but you could spend your money on repackaging, lighter materials etc.
The point is, everyone talks about a pushrod engine being "bad" or old and to me that simply doesn't make any sense. The 45 degree single crankpin configuration causes vibration and could definitely be improved upon. The single intake tract causes some difficulty, but can be used to advantage at times. More, and smaller valves can flow more for given size, but turning them over cause more parasitic loss, etc. etc.
Each one was designed for a given set of circumstances to do certain things. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:03 pm: |
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Having ridden the K1200S I can honestly say you do NOT have to "rev the heck out of it to make power." It makes VERY good power down low and SCARY power up top. This is a BMW, not some high-strung race replica, so it was definitely built with STREET use in mind.
That being said, it is NOT a bike for the home mechanic. There IS no valve-adjustment interval. It has to be plugged into the BMW MoDiTec (I think I spelled that right) diagnostic computer and it will tell you when the valves need attention.
I have a K1200LT, which is the old generation K engine, and it has 103,000 original miles on it. The valves have not gone out of adjustment over the last 48,000 miles (they're checked at 12,000 mile intervals).
The new K engines haven't been out long enough to develop any "history" but the prior generation engines are about as bulletproof and long-lived a motorcycle engine that has ever been strapped between two wheels.
In my case, in 103,000 miles I've only had oil changes (every 6,000 miles) and tune-ups performed. The top end has NEVER been off, and I'm still on the original clutch (the original battery was replaced last year).
The bike never requires oil top-off, and has been leak free all eight years I've owned it. I can't say that about the first Buell I've owned (a 2000 M2 Cyclone) and my XB12Ss has to accumulate a lot more miles than it currently has before I can make a fair comparison with it. On the plus side, at 10,500 miles the only problem I've had so far is a burnt out headlight. That's a good start! |
Scooter808484
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 12:17 pm: |
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I was probably a little out of the way implying problems with the BMW. My intent was not to disparage the bike or the company, only the dealer, which, unfortunately, put me off the whole experience.
Most Harley dealers are even less responsive with Buell owners, so I can imagine how someone walking into those places looking for a Buell feels. I had experience with the tractor engine, knew I could get parts online and do all of my own service, so the dealer didn't enter the equation. I had none of that with the BMW dealer, they wouldn't give me the time of day, so I left. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:09 pm: |
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Oh believe me... I love BMW motorcycles, but BMWNA seems to be in the business of shutting down BMW Motorcycle Dealerships. We had a WONDERFUL dealership here on Long Island that they closed for reasons unknown. They were doing a good business, they had a loyal customer base, and we had the rug pulled out from under us. Now BMWNA expects us to take our bikes into Manhattan for service?? NFW! The little Mom and Pop shops that put BMW Motorcycles on the map are being systematically shut down with no replacements. BMW is on a suicide mission. When I can no longer get my K1200LT serviced at my (now unauthorized) shop it'll be time to switch to a new brand.
Guess I'll have to learn to slow down and buy a Harley, eh?
(Message edited by jaimec on January 04, 2007) |
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