| Author | Message | ||
     Spatten1 |
You are the man. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I meant Groundskeeper, for the apology, it shows a great deal of character. | ||
| Bads1 |
Like I said Sean your opinion!!! Frankly you are of the very few % that share that one. As far as me biased to American. Its great to see a fellow American up there but I'm a fan of other riders the same. So its your mind that is clouded. Your brain works better then Duhamels??? Everyones works different. Eye and hand coordination etc. Its how you have trained yourself. This is a argument that nobody wins especially when dealing with a know it all. | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket, I don't see nearly as much patriotism in these arguments as much I see your blind bias against anything American, and in this case Hayden. That's a pile of dog shit dude, and won't wash in any argument with me. Anyone with a RATIONAL mind could see that Pedrosa screwed up. You have lost all perspective with this argument and you keep spewing that irrational argument over and over and over. I assume you're saying my mind is irrational because I refuse to agree with the widely help perceptive that Pedrosa's move on Hayden was everything most Americans on this board say it was. That kinda proves my 'Hayden / American' thought. In fact, you went on record stating that Hayden was going to get his butt handed to him in the last race of the season by Rossi. When the exact opposite of that happened, I don't remember you giving Hayden any credit whatsoever. Hayden came out fighting, no question, but he got lucky because of a rare mistake (if that's what it was) from Rossi. I've said Hayden is fast on numerous occasions, and I rejoiced in his win. It was truly heart warming to see him get it. Truth is though, lady luck played a huge part in his season and Hayden himself, to coin your phrase, went on record not once but several times saying he wished he'd have ridden differently at some rounds. Will he defend his title next season like a hard charging racer? I hope so. Or will he race for podiums making up the numbers? Not my kind of racer if he does. The only biases on display in these arguments are yours. Really? That's not the way this lone Englishman sees this long winded debate. Rocket | ||
| Bads1 |
More and more if's and of your American Bull$hit.LOL This guy is a JOKE!!! | ||
| Rocketman |
This is a argument that nobody wins especially when dealing with a know it all. See, this is a problem. Because I enjoy to state my beliefs rather strongly, and when they fly in the face of clearly biased opinions because Hayden is the home boy here, and no you Americans can't deny it has no part in this argument, I have to become the know it all. Tell me, are you calling me a know it all based on some professional insight. You know, like DuHamel's on the Pedrosa thing? I've said this before and I'll say it again. There are fantastic guitar players that hold down regular jobs. Just because we've never heard of them doesn't make Eric Clapton or Mark Knopler any better than the great undiscovered just because they make a living as axe men. Bring DuHamel or Rossi or Hayden to the Helmsley TT, that's the B1257 road from Helmsley to Stokesley in North Yorkshire, and they might just get their arses spanked by me or a few of my mates you or anyone else has never heard of. The road is my 'race track' and it's also the place where many a pro racer NEVER ventures. My experience tells me those top flight boys would be lost on street rubber and street suspension, never mind uneven and unpredictable road surfaces. Throw in a few cars, especially the ones coming the other way, and suddenly my qualifications are way ahead of DuHamel, Rossi, Hayden and anyone else who doesn't ride hard on the open road. Funny how things can be turned around isn't it. Now am I qualified to have a valid opinion on the Pedrosa / Hayden thing? Rocket (Message edited by rocketman on December 14, 2006) | ||
| Daves |
I have an opinion but I am an Ignorant Petrol Head so it won't carry much weight.  | ||
| Grndskpr |
(if that's what it was) YOu think Rossi gave his former team mate the win dont you. Tell the truth And suprisingly, i might agree with you R | ||
| Bads1 |
Dude, Your so F'd up I can't type.LOL | ||
| Spatten1 |
Cliff Claybern | ||
| Tbowdre |
whoa.... | ||
| Tbowdre |
rockets totally lost it...heeheee badweb is definetly the most entertaining forum ever... dude hayden was taken out,blind sided from behind... pull yourself together and wake up | ||
| Nutsosane |
Rocket, How much faster are you on the B1257 on the 916? NUTS | ||
| Blake |
Haven't we been through this before?  You are wrong. Pedrosa cooked in way too hot, hit the curb and went down taking out his team mate and championship leader Nicky Hayden on just the fifth lap of the race. It's easy to see. In such a situation, the rider's intent is of no import. A stupid idiotic arrogant move is still a stupid idiotic arrogant move no matter the intent; in fact the selfish intent makes it even worse in my view and in the view of most who have any kind of objectivity on the issue.
A staunch Hayden fan and MotoGP Journalist's view of the incident. Add to the above the views of Miguel DuHammel. But some folks know better. LOL! You crack me up old chum. Imagining you'd be besting the likes of Rossi and company anywhere on equal machines. LOL! | ||
| Diablobrian |
I'd say give the pros a few passes through the given stretch of pavement to get familiar and on equal machines they would show you just how much more the bikes are capable of. It doesn't take top echelon pros long to adapt to a new machine and tires and learn a new "track". They know a lot more about riding on the ragged edge of control than any street rider. Are there guys out there that have enough raw talent to have been a viable candidate to have been a top pro? Sure, but those guys do not have the hours in the saddle that the professionals do, or the training with instructors teaching them to be faster. These guys make their living riding motorcycles fast and they hone that skill to a finer edge than any guy working 40 hours a week, riding on weekends possibly can. The only advantage the locals would have is knowledge of the road and the pros will erode that advantage away quickly as they learn the quirks of the pavement. Sean do you think you're faster than Rossi on neutral territory, a road known by neither of you, with equal bikes a given? Like say the Ortega Hwy in Southern California? Do you think Rossi would be so out of his element on the street that he'd be an easy target? I seriously doubt it. Put it this way, do you think that the weekend warriors (like our team) can pull off stops for tire changes as quickly as the professional teams that can spend weeks practicing the drill to the exclusion of all else? It's a very similar exercise. | ||
| Rocketman |
in fact the selfish intent makes it even worse in my view and in the view of most who have any kind of objectivity on the issue. Selfish to want to win the penultimate round of a championship to give himself an outside chance of winning the title in the last race? That's the objective view so many of you refuse to see because you so desperately wanted Hayden to win. Pedrosa is one of two racers in a motorcycle racing team. Team in this instance does not mean 'pulling together' like a team of horses. It simply refers to the team having more than one person in it. You know, like technicians, tacticians, mechanics, Truckee's, tea maker, as in a team of people. Why do you think there were no team orders? Maybe the controlling influence within the team thought Hayden might not do the job, so they left it open for Pedrosa to have a shot too. It doesn't take top echelon pros long to adapt to a new machine and tires and learn a new "track". They know a lot more about riding on the ragged edge of control than any street rider. I doubt those guys would have a clue how to handle a 916 on a Diablo Corsa down the B1257. They'd be screaming for a manicure they're so well catered for at the track. The stone walls and the countless hump back bridges would scare the shit out of them they'd be screaming for a rider safety meeting and demanding air fences everywhere. The B1257 makes the NW200 look like Daytona without the high speed banking. Bring 'em on. Are there guys out there that have enough raw talent to have been a viable candidate to have been a top pro? Sure, but those guys do not have the hours in the saddle that the professionals do, or the training with instructors teaching them to be faster. You're right. Those pro boys really do lack a massive amount of seat time out on the street. Those pro's see half a dozen tests in a season give or take. That's about 300 miles, plus 16 race weekends. I'd wager they don't see 2000 miles in a full year. That's some serious seat time on a track flat out, but in my kingdom where I rule that's 4 return trips to London, or about 10 hours riding. These guys make their living riding motorcycles fast and they hone that skill to a finer edge than any guy working 40 hours a week, riding on weekends possibly can. Actually most of those making a living pro racing get to ride one long weekend every fortnight. I'm out every week. Sometimes everyday, HONING MY SKILLS! The only advantage the locals would have is knowledge of the road and the pros will erode that advantage away quickly as they learn the quirks of the pavement. They wouldn't so much as get out of their hired Mercedes once they'd driven the B1257. Sean do you think you're faster than Rossi on neutral territory, a road known by neither of you, with equal bikes a given? Like say the Ortega Hwy in Southern California? I'd be up for the challenge, but I'd need a serious change of diet and several months back in the gym. Can you get the 'race' organised? Do you think Rossi would be so out of his element on the street that he'd be an easy target? I seriously doubt it. I'd make meat balls out of him. Rocket | ||
| 12r |
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| Jackbequick |
Blake, That *.gif is from a new piece of film we did not have the last time we were discussing this. It clearly eliminates any and all questions as to the positioning of the bikes and exactly what happened. Did you notice that Sean? Pedrosa comes in too fast, there is no room to evade to the inside, he gets up on the zebra, and loses his front wheel taking Hayden out. It is that simple. And that is exactly how Pedrosa himself described the accident in his post race interview. The interview in which he clearly admits having misjudged the situation and takes full blame for the accident. We need a <plonk> button here, something we can click on to block the inane nitterings of nebulous nabobs knowing nothing needing to be said again. Jack | ||
| Bads1 |
Ha Haaa ha Sean is living on Fantasy Island.....your best friend Tattoo ??? Merry X-Mas to ya none the less Sean. Your to funny.  | ||
| Grndskpr |
Why do you think there were no team orders? Because its Honda, they careless about who wins the championship, there concerned more about the manufacturers cup THey care about what can be done for the company, not the rider And since the had the cup wraped up, there was no need to give orders as far as they were concerned There not racers, nor will they ever be. There only in it for the advertising Ducati, Yamaha, That new Company, there in it to race, to a greater extent than Honda My opinion of course, i will defer to Slaughter, ask him his opinion on Honda, and Honda racing R | ||
| Glitch |
rocket you fat git  i'd love to see your fat ass racing against any of these pro racers, no matter the track  you only say all this crap because you know it'll never happen | ||
| Davegess |
Rocket the ONLY edge you would have on a road like that is that is would not matter to the pro. A GP guy or a TT guy won't try hard for nothing. Now a TT racer like Mike Rutter would hand you your ass for a simple prize of say a million bucks but it would take more than that to get Nicky or Rossi to try. But let’s say we could get Nicky to push to the limit on that road. It would take something goofy like saving his dads life or such but if you got Nicky to try and give him a few hours of practice he would be so far ahead of you wouldn’t show your face for a month. Here’s why. Rocket how many times have you taken a bike right up to its limit and then just a bit beyond at over 100 mph. By beyond I mean crashing. High siding at 100 mph, loosing the front end at 110. Getting up and walking away with a broken collar bone or wrist. Then riding again the next week with a pin in that collar bone that feels like somebody has a knife stuck in you? I could be wrong but I suspect never. Rocket these pros, like pros in any sport, are hard men. Almost all of them came up the hard way. Sleeping in the back of pickup trucks and missing meals to buy parts. They have all crashed and broken stuff. They have all NOT gone to the medical tent cause the doctor won’t let you race with a concussion and a broken collar bone and after all if you don’t race you can’t afford gas to get home. No Rocket it is not just the talent, and the talent is simply hard to understand for use mere mortals but a lot of guys have the talent, no Rocket these guys have a mental and physical toughness that is simply beyond what you and I would understand. This toughness will allow them to beat you in just about any activity that requires a lot of physical effort. If the effort required means they will be in pain, even a lot of pain, they will simply ignore the pain because after all it is only pain. Case in point, American dirt track champ Jay Springsteen fell and broke his wrist and collar bone on lap two at the Daytona short track one year. Picked up the bike and ran 23 more laps finally retiring with a flat tire. I talked with him the next morning and he was mad that the pain got so bad by 6am that he had to see the Doctor and thus couldn’t runn in the 200 miler that day. Rocket when is the last time you wrestled a 600 cc motorcycle around a race track with two broken bones? Would you even contemplate racing the Daytona 200 with those injuries? Jay wanted the $10,000 he could have won by being the highest placed finisher who ran both races. As far as these boy running a bike every few weeks on a weekend? Where do you get that from? Most ride almost every day, if not on a road race bike then a dirt bike. They ride hard and they also train hard. | ||
| Rocketman |
Jack, that footage (again) shows Hayden out wider and Pedrosa coming down the inside fast, much like Rossi does when he does that trademark thing of his when he takes his inside foot off the peg. In fact Pedrosa did the foot thing too but the video up top missed that. That video doesn't have sight of what Pedrosa's tyres where doing, or not doing, as the Armco blocks the view. As for what Pedrosa said post race, I suspect it was due to the long knives so he was doing his best to appease the situation. Dave, I've chucked bikes down the road - more than I'd ever dare count. Of course I've broken bones. Serious bones! Unlike today's racers, when I was 26 and fit as a fiddle I didn't have thousands in the bank. I didn't have personal trainers and dietitians taking care of me. Nor did I have the worlds best doctors and physicians repairing me when needed. The only time I ever got pampered through bike riding was in Intensive Care. Remind me to tell you sometime.............. Hard guys fish the distant Arctic seas for a living. Hard guys work down a coal mine. Hard guys labour in a shipyard. Racing motorcycles for a living in any decade of the modern era is no harder than standing a market on a cold winters day. Apart from coal mining I've done all of the above. No silver spoon was ever coming my way. That's why I'm self employed and started my business from nothing with absolutely nothing but a rent contract and an add in a local paper. Tough guys? I've shat 'em, and motorcycle racers they are not. Though I appreciate what you're trying to say I don't buy an inch of it. Rocket | ||
| Djkaplan |
You sure get your feelings hurt easily, especially if everyone is not in perfect agreement with your manifestos. You also have a bad habit of letting emotions from one thread spill out in another. I've suffered this wrath from you myself. I'm no hard tough guy (like you), but I don't sweat it. | ||
| Rocketman |
My feelings aren't hurt at all. Where did you interpret that from? Please explain what you mean by having a bad habit of letting emotions from one thread spill out in another. I've suffered this wrath from you myself. Did I say something offensive or do something wrong DJ? One last thing just so there's no confusion or confrontation even. The 'hard guy' comment was meant to show 'hard working' and not someone clever with their fists. Rocket | ||
| Buellshyter |
Rocket, you spend an inordinate amount of time trolling the BadWeb looking to share your "pain bodies" with everyone | ||
| Blake |
Stop the personal commentaries please. Anyone wants to pick on anyone, please go start a special thread just for that. Jack, Same exact video clip as before. I just "imagelinked" it.  Honest. Sean, If it had been lap 20 and Pedrosa had been trying for lap after lap to get by Hayden, you might have a point. But it was lap five. Stupid idiotic careless emotional mistake is what it was. Everyone but you and Pedro's agent understand this. Pedro will never win a MotoGP championship. He's too small. I've roughnecked offshore and lumber jacked, do I qualify as a "hard man"? | ||
| Blake |
BTW, I knew some roughnecks who would be puking their guts out if they had to run a full MotoGP race. Not sure you appreciate at all the level of physical exertion AND mental toughness required to succeed professionally at motorcycle racing. I agree with Dave, them be some seriously hard men. | ||
| Rocketman |
Before we all get carried away on stretchers, let's put the fun factor back in this thread! Everyone but you and Pedro's agent understand this. Hey, maybe there's a job waiting for me in sunny Spain. I've roughnecked offshore and lumber jacked, do I qualify as a "hard man"? Did that oil rig bob around in a hurricane force 14 inside the Arctic Circle? Nah, they serve fresh salmon horderves on rigs. As for the lumberjacks. You know Monty Python right, lol. Right then. That B1257 is a serious road for testing any bike to its limits if you push hard. Think TT not GP. A pro racer would indeed beat the well experienced street rider, no doubt, including me, but the point is simply this. There are undiscovered talents out their that have no experience of a race track and I believe these people could beat the champions down the B1257, if one likely came along. When Mike Hailwood returned to the TT after an 8 year sabbatical in New Zealand, he hadn't so much as sat on a bike, never mind ridden one, in all that time. His fastest lap off the top of my head was what, 110mph? That requires a level of stamina for sure, and that Ducati was a powerful machine even by today's standards. Ok, Mike the Bike was an exceptional talent, but that same talent can lay dormant and undiscovered forever, but it's always there. Now imagine heading to Helmsley one sunny afternoon and there's this guy on a 999 who's as good as anyone on a track today, except he works as a draughtsman for a civil engineering firm. How do you know he's not going to wipe the floor with you down the B1257? You don't, because just like the undiscovered guitar virtuoso, it still doesn't make him any less better than the famous guys and girls. You just don't know it. That's why when I say I can beat Rossi or DuHamel down the Ortega Highway it's to make you understand you just don't know. Maybe I could. Yes ok I admit it. That's never gonna happen. But for some out there, it could. Now equate that to DuHamel's comment on Pedrosa and I'd say, how do you judge that I'm not qualified to have such a high regarded opinion as his just because I'm no pro racer? That's what my opinion is based on - my own experiences of the two wheeled craft, and as far as I'm concerned, even if DuHamel or Rossi Peace my good friends  The Nutter | ||
| Grndskpr |
Right then. That B1257 is a serious road for testing any bike to its limits if you push hard. Think TT not GP. A pro racer would indeed beat the well experienced street rider, Or TT racer?? This weekend (Aug. 19-20) marks the AMA Ford QC Flat Track Championship series' return to the oldest continually running dirt track race in the world - the legendary Peoria TT , hosted by the Peoria Motorcycle Club (which was founded in the late 1920s). Carr has won the event a number of times and tops a list of Peoria TT winners that include current World GP points leader Nicky Hayden , former World GP champ Kenny Roberts and flat track legends Ricky Graham, Jay Springsteen and Mert Lawwill. Hmmmmmm R |
