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Cecil1
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I posted this in the KV but no replies so I'll try here.
I just removed my rear tire and need to put the new one on the rim. I remember reading somewhere you have to align the tire on the rim a certain way. Something to do with the valve stem aligned with a dot on the tire. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Tim
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, you're on the money. You need ( i say that word lightlyt), rather, it is preferable that you line the dot up with the valve stem. Then, just make sure you balance the wheel after that. The hardest part about all this is getting that damn second lip to go over the rim. Took me about 3 spoons (tyre spoons) and a little cussing. Another tip.... let the tyre set in the sun for a bit before tackling that. Seems to make it go on a bit better. Cold tyres are a pain in the rear to put on.

Good luck

Mark
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Cecil1
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 02:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Nutsnbolt just one question.
Where is the dot on the tire?
I looked for it but can't seem to identify it. Oh it is a Pirelli Diablo if that makes a diff.
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sometimes, they're on there... Sometimes they're not. The Diablos in my experience have been a pretty true tyre. I'm sure there are others that disagree. Here's the deal on the dot, it's supposed to signify the "heavy part of the tyre" as I had it explained to me many years ago. I mean, even if you don't line up the dot, it's no big deal. Mostly, you have ONLY 2 things to worry about... Getting the arrows pointed the right way, and making sure it's balanced. Again, balancing, is another topic that others feel you don't need to do, but, I wouldn't ride anything I ride over 55 mph without trying to balance the tyres. So, if you don't see a dot, don't sweat it. My Strada's didn't have a dot, either. Dot's can be either yellow(pretty common) or I've even seen green. But, I wouldn't sweat it. By the way, the dot is on the sidewall.

Mark
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Cecil1
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

oh ok I just checked the tire and there are 2 small red dots of paint about 3/4 to one inch apart.
Could this be it?
Tim
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, I would split the difference on the space. I forgot to mention red.

They kind of blend in sometimes. Kinda hard to see.

But, yep, you got it.

Good Luck


Mark
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Cecil1
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Nutsnbolt
guess I have a project I can do tonight after bottling this batch of beer.

Cheers
Tim
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hey, I'm a homebrew man myself!!

That rocks.

Enjoy.

I make a mean Sierra Nevada.

Mark
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Gentleman_jon
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Small point.

The assumption is that the valve stem is the heaviest part of the wheel.

Testing the wheel by putting it on the balance stand WITHOUT the tire on it, will often show that the valve stem is NOT the heaviest point on the rim. If that is the case, as it is with my rear wheel, mark the low point on the rim with a marker pen, and align the dot on the tire with that. If you are lucky, you will need little or no lead to balance the wheel.
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Get a No-Mar Bar for this job. I just got one and it works great.(now that i know how to do it)

You also need to get the tire to sit in the middle of the rim so you get the most play from the tire. Before I tried this trick I fought wih my tire and the tire won...I gave up.

Then the light was shed on me and it went on like butter. really.

That bar is worth every penny now!
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No_rice
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

use some astro glide. it'll slip right on the rim. dont ask how i know, lol
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Cecil1
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

ASTRO-GLIDE I'm not going to waste that stuff on my tire.

cause it's already on.

I can't believe how much easier the new tire was to get on. I must have fought with the old tire for an hour. The new one was on in 20 min. Thanks again for all the help.
Tim
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Cecil1
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 04:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Nutsnbolt I'm making an Irish Stout right now. I have a recipe for a Caramel Porter that I'm getting ready to try. I'm hopping it comes out close to Saranac's Caramel Porter. Thats the wifes FAVORITE brew.

Tim
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No_rice
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

ya, i wouldnt waste it either, wasnt mine. it was a long night of drinking and messing around in the shop. someone decides its a good time to change tires and someone else decides to have some fun and use that stuff.

i cant remember what little piece of something they lit on fire on the shop floor, but then the astro glide also became a fire extinguisher, lol
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Barker
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dot(s)=Heaviest part of tire?

And I want to align this with the heaviest part of the wheel? Shouldn't I align the heaviest part of the tire opposite the heaviest part of the wheel?

Why would I wont to put all of the heavy parts together?

Am I just not reading this Thread right?
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Hammer71
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Barker, some do both methods. I line up dot or in Pilot Power tire Bar code with the lightest part of rim. Little or no weight to balance that way, Got Mkexlr's ride down to 1/2 gram. Either way works.

Eric, Diggin that Nomah bah as you guys call it HUH? Told ya it would be the best investment ever.

Rich
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That bar is killer! Took 15 min. to pull the old off, and less to get the new on.Thanks for the heads up on that bar!

I will admit I fought with getting it on at first try but then got'er figured out after stepppin' away from the tire due to stressin'

Took it back off/on just to be sure I had it down.
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Because.....

This is real easy. If the theory that the dot is the "heaviest part of the tyre" then you don't want to oppose it from the stem. Doing so puts weights near the stem or just below it. As I was taught, the stem "area" is the most used and fiddled with portion of the rim. Some things you are just taught and told. This method has been used for YEARS. Some smart person (smarter than me) came up with this idea of dotting the tyre and placing it "near" the stem.

I have also heard ONE other account for this. Is it credible? I don't know. But, it made enough sense after a six pack. The stem area is not the heaviest part of the wheel (hence metal has been taken out of the wheel and replaced with a valve stem. Is this true? I don't know. Is the wheel already balanced to accept the weight of the tyre on the stem? Who knows. All I know is that you are "supposed" to line the two up as best as possible.

MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm....... Beeeeeeeeerrrrrrr........


Mark
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Barker
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 08:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Do yall think I can change my own tires with just the no-mar bar, some astro glide and a static balancer? Or do I need the whole 600 no-mar rig?

Im paying about 25 bucks every mount/balences per tire I have done 8 tires this year.

I would to do my own. The no-mar bar is $100 bucks, anyone suggest a cheap/good static balancer?
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Barker
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

For the same price as the no-mar bar, the harborfreight.com tire changer combo.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem. taf?Itemnumber=34542

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem. taf?Itemnumber=42927

Suggestions?
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Rocketman
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 09:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

anyone suggest a cheap/good static balancer?

Your wheel spindle and a pair of stands with a 'V' shape holder.

Rocket
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You still need to break the bead. Here's the set up that myself and my neighbor are using;

No mar bar, Harbor Freight Tyre change setup. Here's the thing on the Harbor Freight deal... It's kinda junk, but you can make it work really well. It's got the bead breaker on the bottom (lay towels down under it.) Plus when you mount your rim to the station, used small towel scraps on the holders cause, even though they are covered in a THIN coat of plastic... they suck and will scratch your rims up quickly. So, use some towel pieces. Lastly, when using your spoons on the tyres, cut up some large rounds of Milk jug plastic and use that as your barrier between your spoons and your rim. Works unbeleivably well. I mean I was stunned to see how much easier on the mind and might that was.

Oh, you will also want to mount that station either to yoru floor (we don't) or mount it to a rather large 1" or better piece of plywood. Ours is about a 4'x4' square. Maybe a bit bigger but not by too much. The no mar is the expensive part. I've used other bars, but man, that no mar is a good bar. Worth the investment.

Static balancer.... You can go about this two ways. There is a company that sells a great one, I'll have to look them up again and post at another time, but it's around 180 bucks. OR you can more or less make your own. 2 jack stands, a steel or any metal round rod, some skateboard bearings (kinda optional) and you are more or less done.

Why is the kit better? It comes with cones that you wedge between the wheel with to stabalize the wheel as it spins on the bearings allowing free movement. Homemade kit, you can still use the rod and bearings, but you have to come up with some way of stabalizing the wheel. As chance would have it, we had some old machined parts that were cone shaped that worked well.

But you get the idea. There are hundreds of ways to make your own. Lot of smart people out there. A lot of brains to think of it. I'm sure after reading this there will be many many other better ways, but this works great for me and my friends.

Good luck


Mark
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Hammer71
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 09:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Barker, I use just the bar and a static balancer without any issues whatsoever, on my bike as well as others on the board. Best thing is it's portable (somewhat) wont fit on bike but it will be with me for our run to the Dragon/ March Badness (just in case)
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Jandj_davis
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 01:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Barker -
I just bought the Harbor Freight changer setup a few months ago, and have a few pointers after changing a tire on it. Silicone spray is a great lube for taking the tire off the rim, and cut-up plastic bottles (I used milk jugs) make great scratch protection. I dipped the rim clamps in Plasti-Dip to improve their grip and make them less scratchy. Unfortunately the silicone spray eats the plasti-dip, so I don't have a solid solution for that yet. Mounting the tire was easy as well, but I would recommend a paste-type lube for mounting, as you don't want that lube spray running all over your tread. For changing methods, watch the video demonstrations on www.nomartirechanger.com. I watched them a few times, and used the Harbor Freight changer with no problems. Also, it is important to mount the changer to a solid floor, a piece of plywood is not good enough. Finally, I am still going to buy the tire bar from no-mar. The metal piece from Harbor freight would be fine for car tires that you don't car about, but for rims that scratch, or that look nice, that no-mar bar is impossible to beat (unless I can mock it up with drum-stick tips). Shoot me a PM if you want more info, or have more questions.
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, the only reason I mentioned the plywood bit is for portability. We live on Base here in Camp Lejeune. Base frowns on you if you start mounting junk on THEIR property. Babies.

If i had my druthers, I would mount that baby to the floor. I just make sure I'm standing on the Plywood. It still doesn't move, but I would like to have it mounted. Would take me about 2 minutes less to do the job.

Hell, I can finish 2 beers in 2 minutes. Sometimes you need those 2 minutes. You know, time to stand around and stare at your accomplishment as a man no longer a slave to the stealerships. Pat yourself on the shoulder time.



Mark
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Firebolteric_ma
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here is how I did mine and I have a No-Mar Bar. First thing is to remove the valve in the stem and let all the air out.

Then to break the bead I used (2)- 2x4's x8'-0" long nailed together. with the tire off the bike I put a moving blanket on the
ground/grass to keep things clean, I then wedged the 2x4 under my shed and pushed down on the bead. The wood will not harm the rim
since it is nice and soft. once that was done I used the no-mar bar to get the old tire off, first time is a b!tch but once ya get the
hang of it there should be no more fighting.

Now that the old tire is off time for the new rubber to go on. I use the lube that was supplied with no-,ar bar and I lubed up the outside seal area
AS WELL as the inside.(makes the bar slide easily)

Get the first part of the tire over the rim then start the second bead, You are going to want the tire to sit in the middle of the rim as that is where you will gain
the most "play" from the tire for final seating. I used some adjustable wood clamps to squeeze the tire so it sits roughly in the center of the rim.

Now use the double nipple (I said nipple..;)) side on the bar. seat it in the tire and procees to go around the tire. Make sure you use plenty-o-lube and it will
with very little effort slip on.

THATS IT!!!Hope this makes sence to you all.
Good luck!
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Barker
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanx for yall's advice, I just bought the No-mar bar, balancer and a few goodies. From there website.

Great site, lots of good video how-2's that inform and sell.

Free shipping thru december. That's the first time I got free shipping on lead weights!
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Rocketman
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You can easily break the bead in a wide enough jaw vice using two pieces of timber.

One timber acts as a support between the rim edge and the vice jaw face. Best this is the side of the tyre that's facing away from you. The other timber is placed facing you across the opposite side tyre wall only and as close to the rim as possible but not touching it, and also across the opposite vice jaw face.

Tighten it all together so it just holds (obviously you've evacuated the air first) in the vice, then move the timbers around for optimum effect, and start tightening the vice. You'll have already noticed that the wheel is leaning away from you at somewhat of an angle, which it has to do to allow the nearest you timber to get under the rim edge and start squeezing against the tyre bead.

You've got it. Move around the rim accordingly and break that bead.

Rocket
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Ducxl
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sorry but,youze Englanders misspell TIRE. Those rubber things outside my rims are NOT "Tyres".



He He,God save the Queen
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Swampy
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I used a 1/2 inch Thompson hardened rod(it comes .002 undersided) and two 1/2 I.D. bearings, the bearings slip on the rod perfect. Then I had a friend with a lathe make up two cones with set screws to lock them on the rod. He bought the tooling to cut the insides to 1/2 inch and did a 14 degree cut? Anyways he charged me $60 to do it including materials and the bearings and rod came from Granger Industrial Supply for around $30. There are pictures of it in the Knowledge Vault.
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Barker
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

No-mar sells just the 1/2 inch x 18 inch rod with cones and allen wrench for $24. (free shipping right now) I bought that and im going to but some skate bearings on her and put the rig in a pair of jack stands. So I hope to have a balancer for about 30 bucks plus the jack stands I already have.

Kinda like this
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Swampy
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

$24 EVERYBODY OUGHT TO HAVE ONE!
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 11:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, I looked. I dont see it for 24 dollars. I see something similar to what you're talking about for 68 or something and the set for 99, but not 24.

Post the link, so I can see it, will ya?

Mark
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Ragnagwar
Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 06:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The set up shown in Barker's photo is the Marc Parnes balancer. It's around $100.00 and works great."No affiliation" etc.
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Nutsnbolt
Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, I realize that, I just still couln't find ANY set up for 24 bucks at no mar.
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Barker
Posted on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Small Universal Cone Set WITH ROD
These Cones range from 1/2 through 1.01 inch. Conventional "Set screw" lock on 1/2 x 18 inch tool steel rod, included. Cones are Polyethelyne with steel set screws. Free wrench included! Lifetime warrantee.
$24.00

http://www.king-cart.com/n0m5rent/product=Accessor ies/exact_match=exact

I have actually changed my order to get the Universal/automotive balancer.

Large balancer cone set (Universal)
Ultra high quality, CNC machined for accuracy. These large balancer cones are for 7/8 through 3 3/8 inch wheel holes. They can be used typically "Point to point" or in cases where points will meet before clamping the wheel, just reverse one of the cones. These cones work very well for wheels with large offsets such as automotive type, newer BMW motorcycle and Ducati. GSXR 1000 and Hyabusa require these cones. Made of Acetal plastic and spin onto a 1/2 x 17 1/2 inch Acme threaded rod to clamp the wheel. May be used with other balancers. Lifetime warrantee.
$64.00

All I need are some cheap bearing I have got my self a cheap universal balancer.
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