| Author | Message | ||
     Fireboltxb9r |
Have any of you Firebolt riders had front brake problems? Mine made a clicking noise for about 700 miles and eventually dissapeared. I now have about 4400 miles and notice a pulsating feel from the front brake and suspect a possible bad rotor. Anybody out there with some thoughts? I appreciate your feedback. | ||
| Xb9 |
Check the run out on your wheel. If it's >0.040" (yes, only .040" ) the wheel is the problem and needs replaced. Keep in mind that with the perimeter mounted rotor, if the wheel is distorted even the slightest amount, that distortion will transmit to the rotor. Even though the rotor floats, you'll feel it on light or initial application. I'll bet if you pull the rotor off the wheel and mike it, it's parallel within +/- .0005", and that it is flat. Check the run out of the rotor with it mounted on the wheel, and it will be slightly less (and correspond) with the run out of the wheel. Yes, I had mine in to the dealer today, after I did some diagnostics on my own. I started noticing an intermittent vibration at around 6K. I've got 12K now, and it vibrates like a bitch, especially in the 45-70 MPH range. The spring holes in the wheel that house the springs for the rotor have worn and look like they are "threaded" My notes on this: Frt. brake Vibration first noticed around 6K intermittent. 8K, replaced rotor mounting washers, bushings, pads and bolts: slight improvement in vibration. When this work was done, the left side wheel bearing was noticeably rough with play. Both wheel bearings were replaced. (Could not get HD bearings in time for trip, replaced with equivalent SKF bearings) 10K vibration worse and constant. 12K Took measurements below: The out of true (lateral) run out of the wheel is 0.85mm (.0335" ) Max. Allowable is 1.02mm (.040" ). Run out (lateral) at the rotor surface, with the rotor mounted on the wheel, is 0.50mm (.020" ). Max allowed is 0.45mm (0.0177" ) So, the wheel is within spec, but it's getting close to being out of Tol. The run out at the rotor is out of spec, but it's out mainly due to the run out of the wheel! When I mark the "extreme points" of run out on the wheel (high/low reading), they coincide with the extreme points of run out on the rotor. They match. That tells me the wheel is causing the majority of the run out at the rotor. Distortion of the wheel at the perimeter will be transferred to the rotor via the perimeter mounts to some degree. Rotor thickness: .197-.198" Rotor warp: .005" max. I didn't think I would be alone on this problem. With the ultra light weight of the wheel, it may be prone to distortion, and brake vibration will result. We'll see if others exhibit the problem also. The dealer (Buell) has agreed to replace the wheel under warranty, but BO till Mid Nov. | ||
| Xb9 |
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| Xb9 |
The pictures above, my thoughts: The springs may be binding in these worn holes, impeding the ability of the springs to move freely and allow the rotor to float (only part of the problem) | ||
| Reepicheep |
XB9... you really have 12k miles on that thing already! Yikes! Saw the Ohio plates in the profile as well, what part? Have not yet seen an XB around Cincinnati, and believe me I have been looking. Thanks for the great and highly detailed post! | ||
| Xb9 |
I'm just SE of Cleveland, but I ride alot in SE Ohio, where the good roads are. Typical ride down & back is a 500+ mile day, so the miles add up quick. I ride with a sportbike group call CORE that usually meets in Laurellville, Ohio, join us some time! We have some guys that come up from Cinci. http://pub89.ezboard.com/bcore74332 I'm XB9FOG on that forum. There's one other guy from Columbus with an XB9R in the group. | ||
| Xb9 |
FWIW, Wheel lists for $235 (Cheep!) | ||
| Chainsaw |
Well, I haven't had any problem with the front brake. No clicking noises or pulsing. Works pretty darn good. I have 3700+ miles on mine. Xb9 puts me to shame (but I've put about 4500 miles on my Sportster since I got the Buell). | ||
| Fireboltxb9r |
Thanks Xb9. I appreciate all your info including the photos. I will approach my dealer and take the bike in for inspection. I' ll keep you posted with my progress. Thanks again. | ||
| Xb9 |
Yes, please post what you find with yours. Good luck. | ||
| Fasteddieb |
My front rotor is still clicking after 1,500 miles. My S. FL dealer said it was a warped rotor and it would be replaced under warranty. Bike's now in N GA, but on my next trip up I plan on leaving it at a Chattanooga Buell dealer for that and a couple other items. I'll report back as to the outcome. | ||
| Harleybritt |
just posted on other thread but spoke to buell and they told me they are working on a "fix"for the rotor somthing with the springs.hey maybey by the time they have had alll the recalls i'll have a completley new bike..yipy!!!wish theyed recall the engine and put a bigger one in.hehe | ||
| Harleybritt |
5000miles and now i think the rotor is warped?i,m taking it in tue for the dealer to checkout.i had them ride it sat and they seem to think the rotor is warped .the brake pads seem to be ok even wear on both sides.im thinking maybe the heat down in miami along with my bike being fully loaded may have caused it?just my opinion,i did speak to buell and they said they are working on problems with the front rotor.anyhow i will let you all know tues what the problem is. my dealer here in atlanta dont know much about the bikes as they have only sold 2 all year,and they still havent sold a xb9s yet. wish they would buy mine back!!! i,m looking at the speed tripple or maybe the new kawasaki z1000.looks interesting.not had one buyer for mine yet.looks like a bad time to sell but i,m in no rush. | ||
| Xb9 |
I would caution on pointing at the rotor for any vibration problems with the Xb9x brake. Due to the perimeter mounted brake rotor, any lateral runout of the front wheel will be transmitted in effect to the rotor surface. If the wheel is not true, you will get vibration. And it doesn't appear to take more than .020" - .040" wheel runout before you will start noticing it. You need to do the following to diagnose this properly: 1. On a truing stand, check lateral runout of wheel, and at the rotor surface with the rotor mounted on the wheel. 2. Check the flatness and parallelism of the rotor with a mic and surface plate. I'll bet you'll find the rotor is fine, the wheel has runout, causing the vibration. Based on what you are hearing from Buell, they recognize there is a problem and are trying to come up with a "fix". I'm anxious to see what they come up with. | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: BUELLers The answer is stronger(ie: heaver front wheel)rim or a kit where by the rotor floats. Which ever is cheaper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Harleybritt |
it is a floating rottor i,m just not confident in this perimeter system. | ||
| Xb9 |
Hmmm...... Called the Buell Dealer to see if the XB9R replacement Frt. wheel has come in, they ordered it in Early October, they said it is still on BO. I saw some posts elsewhere on this site saying they were reworking the design of the rotor mounting bushings and/or springs. Anybody have some inside info on this issue? My Dealer doesn't seem to have a clue. | ||
| Fasteddieb |
Thunder Creek told me the solution was new rotor bushings, which they have on order for me. Maybe one of the dealers online could let us know what the latest "official line" on this matter is. | ||
| Fireboltxb9r |
Hello Guys, Been real busy lately, but wanted to update you on my front end vibration. My dealer found the wheel bearing(s) to be bad. With only 4500 miles of moderate riding this seems very premature to me. The tech guessed possible improper installation from the factory may have caused the failure??? Still seems odd to me. I've got 20K on my 97 YZF and not a hint of any bearing problems. The tech also checked radial and lateral run out of the rim, and although he did not give me specs, told me it was within tolerance. Unfortunately living here in upstate NY, I will have to wait till spring to test drive and see if the problem is resolved. I hope if I have any problems down the road past warranty date, Buell will give me consideration as this was initially noted within the warranty period. Time will tell. If anyone out there hears of rotor, wheel, brake mods or improvements, please keep me posted. PS- Almost 2' of snow here today. Tomorrow I ride the Yamaha Viper!! Any rumors of Buell building snowmobiles in the future? LOL!! Actually, Bomdardier Ski-Doo is building a sled and using a V-twin designed and built by Aprilia. Come on Erik, how about some more of that good ol' American ingenuity? | ||
| Xb9 |
I hope that takes care of your vibration, but the wheel bearings didn't cure it for me. I'd be doubtfull, unless they were really wasted. Still waiting on a BO replacement wheel from Buell, I wonder what the H_ll is the holdup. My front bearings lasted 8K, the rear lasted 12K. They come stock with FAG bearings, I replaced with SKF. The seal design looks more durable on the SKF's, time will tell if they last longer. | ||
| Fireboltxb9r |
Well, Xb9 you were correct. I rode the bike for the first time last weekend since they replaced the bearing and absolutely no change, still vibrating very noticeably. It frustrates me the dealer would deliver this without fully testing. I took it back and demanded they ride it. They came back and hopped on another XB9R to "see if this one does it too". I told them if it does then they have two bikes with problems! They confirmed the problem I just hope they can resolve it. The bike is now out of warranty, but my initial complaint was months ago within warranty and they never fixed right the first time. I hope Buell is planning on keeping me a happy customer. Will keep you posted. Thanks | ||
| Marriedabuell |
Did you not ride it as soon as you got it back? thats the way the post reads . Sounds like they delivered the bike to you, am i interperting correctly? Does the date on repair order fall before the expiration of your wty?Did you inform buell? In the future maybe consider Hardings in Corning or Woodstock in Kingston, Both have very capable people under their roofs. I know its outta the way but whats good is good. I know if it was me, i would be driving.The factory has the BEST training facility in the world, but its UP to THE INDIVIDUALLY OWNED dealerships to send their monkeys (yes they have to pay and thats were the problem stems) to the the update schools. | ||
| harvey mushman |
FireboltXB9R, The engine Bombardier is using in their Skidoo was designed and built by Rotax, which is a division of Bombardier. Rotax also designed and built the Aprilia motor. Aprilia purchases all of their motors. | ||
| Blake |
How tough is it to build a brake rotor that will hold its shape. Someone once asked what alloy would be best as they were intending to have a disk machined from sheet stock. Are brake disks simple machined from anealed sheet stock then re heat treated? Knowing what I know about how steel likes to move around during machining and heat treating, it seems like producing a high quality brake disk might be a tougher challenge than anyone might think; expecially for a disk that is larger in diameter. Here's another one... My last set of pads wore wedge shaped over the course of two track sessions (250 miles/~140 laps). The trailing end of the pads under the small piston wore thin while the leading ends acted upon by the larger piston were left with plenty of meat. Is that due to the excess heat seen by the trailing edge? The pades were EBC Kevlar race compund. I've gone back to stock pads. They seem much better. My prior experience with the stock pads is that they wore perfectly uniformly down to almost being paper thin. | ||
| Dynarider |
Blake, I like good brakes on my dyna & have switched to floating rotors, braided lines, etc & it has been a couple years now with no signs of any warpage from my rotors. Takes a lot of friction to stop a 650lb bike & I use my brakes pretty hard. On my X1 that front rotor warped within the first month. As far as the ebc pads go, I had a set on my dyna..I dont recall the composition..but I ended up pulling them off after about 2 months. They wore the same way you described yours & no matter what I did the damn things would squeal. Tried the anti-squeal goo on the back of the pads, tried beveling the leading edges of the pads...thats what I do to the stock pads...& nothing made those pads stop making noise. Yanked em & threw them in the garbage. | ||
| Rick_a |
Blake...My EBC's did the same thing. Wasted the rotor, too  The stock (Ferodo 901's) seem to be the best overall. | ||
| Blake |
Already did. They were gone. Had to change them before raceday. What is scary though is that due to the leading edges not wearing much, a cursory inspection just looking at the pads would lead you to believe that they were fine. One other telltale sign of poorly/wedge-shaped wearing of pads it that my brake acted as if it had air in the system. Turned out that was due to the flat pistons trying to push the wedge shaped pads against a flat disk. Turned the pads into pretty stout springs and makes the lever turn to mush. I've never had any problems with OEM disks, even after cooking them red hot on the track. I have worn one out though.  | ||
| Crusty |
You want to know how to wear out stock rotors in a hurry? Buy a set of DP Race pads. Your rotors will be junk in 2,000 (street) miles. The pads will be junk also. I sure am glad stock rotors are so inexpensive. | ||
| Davegess |
Back in the bad old days of the RR and RS bikes we made our own rotors from scratch. We bought rolls of cast iron, slice pieces off and had those machined to the correct dimensions than we had both surface ground so that they were flat and parallel. Than we had then plated, can't remember what you call it but they came out gold in color. The plating would wear off in a very few miles and people did not like the rust that would appear BUT they stopped great, did not warp etc. Except for the rust problem cast iron of the right alloy is probably the best for brakes. | ||
| Rick_a |
Yeah...but it's damn expensive to buy a cast-iron rotor and it sounds like a lot of hassle to make one! |
