| Author | Message | ||
     Espcustoms |
Some of you might recall that I had an exhaust stud break off in my front cylinder head a couple of months ago. After trying unsuccessfully to remove it myself while it was still on the bike, I was forced to rotate the motor, pull the cylinder head and send it out to have the stud removed. I finally got the cylinder head back last week and spent yesterday reassembling the bike. I'm pretty certain that I followed the FSM to the letter. Everything went back together pretty smoothly and once I got the last pieces bolted back on, I was anxious to get her started. But when I hit the starter button, all I got was the sound of the starter turning and a loud "click click click..." coming from the starter. The motor won't turn and it's causing the starter gear to slip! Tonight I plan to tear the whole thing back down again. Does anyone have any idea where I could have gone wrong? What could I have done to cause the motor to be seized up like this? The bike sat for about 2 months, but could that have anything to do with it? Is there anything I can try before taking the whole thing apart again? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. | ||
| Coturi |
Check your battery and its connections. Usually the click, click, click is a sure sign of a weak battery. | ||
| Espcustoms |
It's not the battery. I should have described the issue better. The "click click click" is really more like a "snap snap snap" and the starter is cranking. It definitely sounds like the starter gear is turning, but slipping because the motor won't turn. I tried putting the bike in 5th gear and then seeing if I could turn the rear wheel, but I can't get it to budge. | ||
| Spiderman |
You could have done a lot of things. If you can roll it in neutral you know it is a engine problem and not a tranny or clutch problem... You are going to have to re-trace your foot steps there is some missing info here... | ||
| Espcustoms |
It's definitely a motor problem. The wheel turns fine in neutral. There was nothing wrong with the motor besides the broken exhaust stud when I took it apart. What pitfalls could be in the process of reinstalling the front cylinder head and rotating the engine back up into position that would result in the engine not being able to turn? What other info can I tell you that might help determine some possibilities? I know I'm going to have to go back to the beginning, but I'd like to try to have some idea of where I could have gone wrong so I can avoid it the second time around. | ||
| Xring |
I still think it could be a weak battery. I've never heard of a starter that could "slip". It is a gear-to-gear engagement. I have heard a starter turn (just an electric motor - not loud) and the bendix snap in and out due to a weak battery. Like Spidey says, put it in 2nd gear and roll the bike back and forth. If the engine turns over, you know you don't have anything locked up. Keep your patience. You can resolve this. Good luck, Bill | ||
| Espcustoms |
Ok, I'll go back and try again to get the motor to turn by putting it into gear and will hope that you're right about the weak battery. That would sure be easier to resolve than anything else! Thanks for the input guys, I'll be back with an update. | ||
| Phantom5oh |
You could put a volt meter across the battery and see if you have any charge left in it. | ||
| Xring |
I'll add not to try TOO hard to turn the engine over by pushing in gear. I once got a pushrod jammed in wrong (somehow) on an old Triumph; I seem to recall it wouldn't turn over. Bill | ||
| Etennuly |
Pull the plugs, put it in gear, roll the bike. If it turns forward then locks up, then turns backward nearly 1 revolution and stops, you may have dropped something into the cylinder whereby the piston is hitting it at the top of its stroke. | ||
| Justin_case |
Erik, Raise rear wheel off the ground, select top gear, remove spark plugs. You should be able to turn the engine over easily by rotating the rear wheel. Try both directions. Are the cylinders full of fuel? | ||
| Sloppy |
There's no clutch that I know of in the starter or ring gear, so I would vote it's bad battery. In other words, if the engine or tranny is locked up, you wouldn't hear the starter turning. Do this -- pull out your spark plugs and ground your spark leads. Turn the engine over and see if you're moving air in the engine through the plug holes -- then you'll know if you have a problem with the starter. Another test is to warm up (warm, not hot!) the battery with a hair dryer -- it will generate more electricity this way. That's why batteries appear to be "drained" when left on concrete too long - the concrete sucks the heat out so the battery gets too cold to run. Warm it back up and you get your energy back. You should have one anyways, but get a Battery Tender - I've saved 3 batteries with this sucker, so it's well worth it's cost. It will save wear and tear on your charging system as well. My bike batteries have lasted over 5 years with a Tender, so it does save you money and gives you piece of mind as well! A weak battery can cause a multitude of problems since batteries have to run so much more these days than they did 5 years ago. In fact, there's been talk in the industry of switching to a 24v system to help run all the new electronics in vehicles these days. I've heard that BMW ABS won't even work unless the battery is in top shape. | ||
| Mdm |
>all I got was the sound of the starter turning and a loud "click click click..." coming from the starter. Another vote battery | ||
| Espcustoms |
I can hear the starter turning or trying to turn and the "click" sound I'm hearing is pretty loud. I tend to doubt that it's the battery, but I really hope I'm wrong. Since I couldn't turn the rear wheel with the bike in high gear, I tend to think there's something jammed inside, but I don't know. I didn't pull the plugs out and only tried turning the wheel with my hands so maybe the compression was enough to stop me. I'll try everything you guys are suggesting tonight and will go from there. When it wouldn't start yesterday, I was so frustrated that I really didn't spend a lot of time trying to diagnose the problem. | ||
| New12r |
Did you pull your timing cover?? Did you pull your Primary cover?? Get your battery tested!!! Next, pull out your plugs and see if there is fluid in the cylinders, if no then try to roll the engine in 5th gear with no plugs(no compression) if it still will not roll then I would start tear down. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
What all did you have appart? Top End (obviously) Timer Cover? (right side engine cover) What did you do with the pushrods/cams during tear-down/rebuild? | ||
| Reepicheep |
You did remember to remove the the cam locking tool and the primary sprockets locking tool on re-assembly, right?  | ||
| Espcustoms |
I didn't have the primary cover off. Just the front cylinder head, and everything necessary to gain access to remove he head. No other engine components were touched. I left the pushrods right where they sat and never removed the cylinder itself. | ||
| Spiderman |
well, You need to replace your base gasket any time you take tourqe off the head otherwise she will start to leak. When you assembled the rocker boxes how did you do it? Did you rotate the motor so both valves were closed then slowly tighten? Or did you just go for it and tighten down? There could be a bent bump stick.... | ||
| Espcustoms |
So, you're saying that I should have removed the cylinder as well to replace the gasket? I suppose that makes sense. I was following someone else's advice who said I wouldn't need to remove the cylinder, but I don't know who to believe about what with this bike anymore. I never took the rocker boxes apart. I only removed the cover, then the rocker box itself, and then finally the head. When I put it back together, I just did the reverse. When I tightened the bolts, I did it in the order shown by the FSM and in small increments so as to pull everything down evenly. My luck with this bike so far would dictate that if there's a chance of something going wrong, it most definitely will. So, I'll expect one or both of the pushrods to be bent now. I can't believe the amount of time, money and aggravation I've endured over a lousy broken stud! | ||
| Ds_tiger |
Just so the misery loves company profile is compete here (1/2 scale all things considered)  try stripping the oil drain plug ... | ||
| Spiderman |
When I said take the rocker box apart I ment what you said, just removing them from the bike not disassembling the rockers themself sorry. Your manual should have stated you need to replace the base gasket when replacing the head gasket... Was the bike running before hand or was it assemble and then when you went to start it no go? | ||
| Spiderman |
BTW, Have you checked the battery voltage yet? | ||
| New12r |
BTW, Have you checked the battery voltage yet? That should still be first on your list! (Message edited by new12r on December 05, 2006) | ||
| Tgroghan |
Once you find out what is wrong and get it fixed this euphoria should come over you and a sense of pride will fill you. You've done what many people can't do. You have come to the right place to get the bike back in working order. Just a little FYI, I replaced the heads on my 1999 S3 and found out that a complete head (valves and all) cost only $240. Mine had gotten cooked, but I couldn't get them machined and rebuilt for that price. I can't believe the amount of time, money and aggravation I've endured over a lousy broken stud! | ||
| Teeps |
Could the piston be hitting the head gasket? Assuming the head gasket was replaced, could the wrong head gasket be installed, I.E. one for a smaller bore motor? | ||
| Spiderman |
the head gasket isn't that strong... I am still curious about the battery... | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Just a thought... is it possible that pushrod didn't get seated into rocker arm socket completely? Such that piston is hitting valve that is open too far? Hope not, 'cause that would mean a valve replacement in order. Pull the plugs and try to rotate in 5th gear, there should be a little resistance as cams open valves, but anything else is bad juju. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
I've never had one of these Sporty engines apart, but I think a twin cam starter has a clutch that would allow it to "slip." Not trying to lecture here, because I know this sucks, but you should always try to rotate the engine by hand and listen for any thing not sounding right after having the thing opened up. If you find an interference with the starter motor, it's too late! On the base gasket, technically I guess you should replace it. But then, technically, you should get new rings and deglaze the cylinders. If all I did was pull the heads , I'd take my chances with the base gasket. But then I'm generally an idiot... | ||
| Spiderman |
 Full assed or no assed there is no half assed... |
