| Author | Message | ||
     Charlyefun |
Hi all, sorry if I reopen an old discussion on this issue but i'm very entrylevel on. I have an XB12S with next mods installed: F.A.S.T. D&D exhaust Heads from Hot Performance Rapid Bike ECM. I'm very interested to buy a NELLIN 88" big bore kits. With stock cams and only with a complete bore of cases how is the performance increment i can expect? And the duration of the engine life? Many thanks regards Charlye. | ||
| Hogs |
Charlyefun, If You have Rapid bike ECM it may be possible for the 88 kit, as The ECM is the stopping unit on the 12`s as of now to get the Fuel curves/Ing. sorted out ... There also has been mentioned something about an adjustable fuel pressure regulator/larger injectors perhaps as well needed...Not sure in your case IF you are staying with stock cams.... BUT I for one would love to hear how you make out down the ROAD.... I wd. guess all wd be okay in your setup for power with what you are using for gear, and wd. expect it to stay together as well... power guessing here as Have NOT seen any 12`s reported on this board or any wheres out there but say what 110-115 RWHP 95-100 RWTorque Just guessing.. Keep US posted...AND I`m GLAD you reopened this POST..! (Message edited by hogs on November 16, 2006) | ||
| Treadmarks |
I never heard of the rapid bike ecm. Their website has a listing for a Uly. I need to learn more about this. | ||
| Fullpower |
Big bore parts are easy to obtain, they have been running 3-13/16 bore sportsters for a decade now. The QUESTION of the hour is : how are you going to FUEL the 88 inch motor? | ||
| Hogs |
YEah thats the MILLION Dollar Question Fullpower, and NO one has done it yet on the buells ( xb12 ) for the street... Figure that out??? I GOT the BIG ITCH to do it, But until someone can come up with a working system that does not require Rocket Science and Two piggy banks I`ll stay where I`m at :-( as Sad as that is... | ||
| Hogs |
Just think your Xb12 could be like this: http://media.putfile.com:80/wheelierod | ||
| Tq_freak |
that is awesome!!!, koolest v-rod I have seen yet | ||
| Diablobrian |
I would like it better with street-rod mid-controls. I've never felt comfortable with my feet out in front of me like that when riding. But I'd give it a shot on a bike like that.  | ||
| Bigbuell |
Wicked V-Rod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| M1combat |
Mega-Squirt. I think it costs barely more than two pennies  . You're looking at more dyno time though as you won't have a baseline to start with. You can come up with a baseline with some math though... The TB is already plumbed for a MAP sensor... | ||
| Bud |
fuel....*ahum* i say direct link | ||
| Alex |
I have done some 88 XBs. With stock fuel system. Regards Alex M-TeK Engineering | ||
| Blake |
"I'm very interested to buy a NELLIN 88" big bore kits." Why not support some of the folks who are kind enough to keep this place up and running. Additionally, the folks at Revolution Performance manufacture their own cylinders and guaranty them for life. The folks at nearby Hillbilly-Motors can provide and help you choose the Revolution Performance and other components that will work best for you. | ||
| Hogs |
Alex, I take it you just do the big bores, without Cams ,Head work etc ,etc., SO then tell us what are the numbers you are getting with them on the xb12s Please go into some detail here and perhaps you can say on who's bikes they were, and maybe they will tune in here as well, Or are these street machines or track I`m all ears... M1combat, I think Odie is it? Has done some research with Mega -Squirt, But it still has its ups and downs,Do you know anyone has the 88" kit on a xb12 with this setup and has been running it with no plms . I ask??? | ||
| Hogs |
Anyone out there, That has themselves or Know of anyone that has a xb12 with the 88" kit or the 90" kit and has been running it on the "street" now for awhile please chime in here.. Either just with the stand alone big bore kit, or with cams,headwork, fuel /Ing. system etc etc..??? I think I`ll be waiting a longggggggggggg time for anyone to chime in here... Far as Direct Link , Mega - Squirt, You name it , HAS Not been done as of YET, Which is really TOO BAD... I for one will never buy this 88/90 kit until either the Manufacture of said kits have a system that will work and has been proven for the xb12s Period | ||
| Alex |
...without head work... That was a good one. I professionally do head porting, day in and day out. So setting up an 88 engine without head work would probably be the last thing for me to do. For street engines I keep the stock cams. I keep stock compression. I rework the heads (to a very special design) and crankshafts. Iīm not willing to speak about numbers as so many numbers are out there that seem to be way off. Any comparison would just be a joke. The customers are very happy with those engines. They hardly rev them beyond 6000 as it doesnīt matter if rpm drops a little more after shifting up due to a lot of torque beeing present from idle on. One customer often visits track days. When we reworked the engine it had about 18.000 miles on it. Now heīs got around 30.000 without a problem. We are in Germany so donīt expect our customers to tune in here. At the moment Iīm preparing a 90" engine to race specs (with different cams, real high flowing heads and slightly higher compression). It needs different injection timing. The thing sucks so much air that it even refused to idle with the stock XB12 map. I work with DL. | ||
| Hogs |
Thats good news then Alex, But no one on this side of the POND as I have heard has been succesful with them, also where most of these big bore kits are made... So give us a ball park then for RWHP and RWTorque etc... So,what are you using as far as adjustable fuel regulators ,etc for the xb12s Throttle bodies,injectors etc..? | ||
| Hogs |
Wd. like to see more on this: http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/Rapid-Bike/ Rapid-Bike.htm is this perhaps as good or better than Direct Link?? perhaps we need this to go along with the above: http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/PLX-Devices/TR-M300%20O2.htm and or with Direct Link and perhaps Mega-Squirt: http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Warning you must be a computer Expert to use this one I wd. say anyways..LoL Where are those Carburetors, Damn Fuel Injection!!! (Message edited by hogs on November 18, 2006) (Message edited by hogs on November 18, 2006) (Message edited by hogs on November 18, 2006) (Message edited by hogs on November 18, 2006) | ||
| Hogs |
M1Combat you say :The TB is already plumbed for a MAP sensor... Could ya go abit more into detail on this??? | ||
| Alex |
Hogs said:Thats good news then Alex, But no one on this side of the POND as I have heard has been successful with them, also where most of these big bore kits are made... The reason might be that I have a pretty different sight of things when it comes to quality control, head flow numbers, cams, compressions and so on. My philosophy of engine building is pretty different from what many people on Your side do (please donīt get that wrong). Hogs said:So give us a ball park then for RWHP and RWTorque etc... No chance, Sir. See Iīve seen numbers and technical details on the web that look so ridiculous to someone dealing with engine technology every day that I could only loose if I tell You realistic numbers. Telling You wrong numbers to be competitive in this contest is not my style. But be assured that one of my 88 engines would put a big smile on Your face for a long time if You treat it right (happy customers are much more important to me than numbers on paper). Hogs said: So,what are you using as far as adjustable fuel regulators ,etc for the xb12s Throttle bodies,injectors etc..? Our customers run our street engines with stock fuel regulators, stock injectors, sometimes even stock exhaust (which works pretty good) and stock throttle body (when speaking of bore size). Normally we use a FAST intake system. Thatīs it. The major performance secrets and why it all works with the majority of the stock parts lies within the engine design (which can be mostly focused on the head design). Regards Alex | ||
| Hogs |
Hi Alex, Thats all good for you to say, Just seems Weird to say the least WHY we don`t have people running these XBs (12 s) with the big bore kits on the streets here in North America | ||
| Alex |
Hogs, I donīt know. That would be a question to be addressed to the engine builders on Your side. Maybe I should come over. Need to think about it............ | ||
| Blake |
Alex, Might the disparity between internet and your own numbers be due to dynomometer brand? I know for instance that a Superflow dyno reports RWHP results from 10% to 15% low compared to a Dynajet. What brand dyno are you using? | ||
| Alex |
No, I donīt think so, Blake. See, Iīm dealing with Harley and Buell engines for a while now. Someday you get a feeling of how much power and torque an engine can produce when looking at its displacement and state of tune. And Iīve seen many numbers in the web looking much too high (recently I saw a dyno sheet where the operator used a wrong drive train ratio for an XB12. As a result the bike pulled 100 ftlbs of torque at the wheel while beeing completely stock). So Iīm not interested in talking about numbers or even dyno brands. I use a dyno as well as a flow bench for my own R&D work and evaluation but I never use these tools to compare numbers to other dynos or flow benches. | ||
| Rich |
Alex, I'm thinking your way. I'm about to have the heads done on my FLTR, go to 95ci, and leave the stock cams and fuel injection on it. Stage 2 SE download for the FI. I think the numbers will be comparable with a bigger cammed engine, but with a better curve, that is, for street riding. We'll see. | ||
| Hogs |
Rich, With all due respect buddy You going to a 95ci is peanuts , compare to taking a xb12 out to 1450 or 1500 no comparison there at all.. you said "and leave the stock cams and fuel injection on it." and then "Stage 2 SE download for the FI." So you are changing the fuel curves etc. Anyways Alex, You are still losing me buddy, I too have been working on HArleys/Top Fuelers at one time as well,Well for 25 Plus years, so All I was asking for was a ball park for your numbers, for the 1450 kit, Wow, ya think its Top Secret stuff or something... Anyways each to their own.. | ||
| Rich |
Hogs, I just said I agree with the premise of stock cams, that's all. When I do my own XB 12, I'll be sure to ask your advice. | ||
| Hogs |
Rich, I`m no expert and probally know less than most when it comes to the xb12 in big bores 1450/1500 kits as its the damn fuel injection that creates plms. here.... I agree with ya at this stage in the game stock cams are the way to go for just big bores like these ,the more ya change the more plms. I wd. expect one to have until one can get the fueling/Ing. plms. sorted out...Doing head work I wd. think along with the Big bore wd. only add to the plms. with the stock/race ECM.... | ||
| Cochise |
Has anyone done the balance thing on their engines? I talked to a very knowledgeable person in New York at Headless I named Alex also who said he was successful in making more power just by balancing every moving part to get more power....GIDDYUP, I wish I was closer. | ||
| Brineusaf |
Hogs - wtf is your problem? He said that he doesn't want to state numbers, quite easily understood. Back-off him a bit. He doesn't state numbers because all people do is lie about their numbers on the internet, or use miscalibrated equipment. He said he didn't want to... you think your asking is going to change anything? Flame On if you will - fact is he stated he didn't want to get into numbers ballpark or not. Obviously you are a very important figure around here on Engine Building - everyone- make sure you ask "Hogs" anything about engines and related modifications |
