| Author |
Message |
    
Slaughter
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 10:47 am: | 
|
I have zero sympathy for the outlaw stunters and street racers who try outrunning the police on traffic stops. They have made it extremely difficult for the rest of us.
We need to put some peer pressure into play and NOT mourn an idiot. Hopefully he didn't breed prior to taking himself out of the gene pool.
It has gotten terribly stupid on the highways in the past 20 years. In LA, we'll actually have groups like the Ruff Ryders BLOCK FREAKING TRAFFIC on the freeways to do their stunts and then race off before the police show up. The rest of us are all paying the price for this stupidity and arrogance.
Good riddance. As has been said elsewhere, you can find sympathy between s**t and syphilis in the dictionary. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 10:53 am: |
|
I might add that being "in control" has to take into account your total situation.
If you are riding at the edge of control of your machine, you are not in control considering your situation - namely TRAFFIC.
You just have to leave much larger margins in traffic than on the track precisely BECAUSE there are other people out there who MIGHT do something unpredictable. If you're not taking that into account, you are truly stupid, regardless of how "in control" of your machine you say you are.
If you are planning on street racing or urban stunting, PLEASE PM me your insurance company because I need spare parts for next years MotoST racing team. Looking for wheels, forks, frame, swingarm and triple clamps. I'll be doing a few more salvage bids and that will help me save some of the valuable racing budget because salvage is much cheaper than new! |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
|
Look at it this way. You have buckets of "margin of error". For every action, it either serves to fill the bucket or drain the bucket. When all buckets are empty, calamity is at it's highest probably (imminent). The buckets are (I'm sure there are more.):
Weather Conditions
Time of Day
ATGATT
Condition of Motorcycle
Riding Location/Surface
Traffic Conditions
Health/Mental State of Rider
Riding Activity (Stunting)
Any of these conditions can directly contribute to a crash by themselves. If you fall asleep because you have pulled a double, you crash. If someone crosses the double yellows on a turn, you crash. If you ride on a canyon road strewn with gravel, you crash. These are the uncontrollables.
If you create for yourself full buckets in all other areas: Good weather, no traffic, all gear, good bike, clean empty parking lot with no gravel, daytime, happy healthy state of the driver, and you pull wheelies, you likelihood of crash is reduced. You have depleted your riding activity bucket, but you have filled all the other buckets. You have a lower probability of crash and your likelihood of death from that crash is greatly reduced.
If you chose to deplete all the buckets at the same time, you have the highest probability of death.
Control doesn't even play into this equation. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 12:06 pm: |
|
Control doesn't even play into this equation
But SELF CONTROL does.
Good analogy about the "buckets"
All the things you mentioned CAN and DO happen. If an idiot rides as if those things will never happen, he/she deserves what they have coming - a fall. The odds will eventually catch up to them. To expect otherwise is the height of arrogance and denial. |
Earwig
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
|
Fastfxrs, Docktor said he was in "complete control" on 1 wheel.. I hardly consider being able to drift a wheelie in complete control. give me a break. |
Trac95ker
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 09:27 pm: |
|
It's unfortunate that this motorcyclist died. The wheelie and speed probably combined with adrenaline were a poor decision at that moment and location.
Every time I read one of theses posts there are people who say he deserves what he gets. Come on, we ride buells.... Own the corners! The guy messed up and it cost him his life. We should learn from this and mourn his loss instead of posting hate. Aren't we all lawbreakers? It really bothers me to see that some individuals have no compassion, tolerance or understanding for human life. Don't anyone say he didn't value his life either. It doesn't matter what the odds are. Anyone can be taken out for any reason at any time. Maybe his time was up. At least he died doing something he loves. Weather it was right or wrong, he was one of us.
Grlryder, what part of Ct are you from? |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 10:51 pm: |
|
"but you dont need a front wheel to change direction of the bike"
I can push my bike down the driveway and it will change direction all on its own. You are headed for catastrophe if your personality here reflects your riding style. |
Docktor
| | Posted on Saturday, October 07, 2006 - 11:33 pm: |
|
blake, you are kidding right ? Your bike doesnt really change direction all on its own pushin it down the driveway?. You are headed for a catostrophe before you even get out onto the road if that the case.  . i see you do track racing by your profile, so surely your front wheel has come up on purpose or even accidently? Do you weight shift to keep control or do you back off , lose those few precious seconds and wait til the front is "safe again" ?. Trac95ker, I totally agree , anyone who dies doing what he loves deserves more than a fart in his general direction. I too agree with the "bucket" theory, but if you ride with all the buckets full, thats some pretty boring riding.If you push hard into a corner you are emptying your bucket.Thats cool by me.I wear full gear at all time
(yes even going to the shops)so i try to keep my buckets as full as possible but hey someone (possibly me) will empty the buckets and it results in a drop,slide or death.Live with the facts,you ride,you have a higher possibility of an early death then most people out there.
Doc |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 12:44 am: |
|
It really bothers me to see that some individuals have no compassion, tolerance or understanding for human life.
Just the opposite is true. Offering impotent gestures of compassion and dusting off the old, tired quotes about "he died doing something he loved" frankly gets tiring since we have been doing it a half dozen times a year for decades.
Maybe it's because of where I live that I see about 2 or 3 medevacs every riding weekend in the local hills that I'm just getting tired of the carnage.
IT IS GETTING MUCH WORSE. People do not discourage that type of riding even though the penalty so often is death.
I don't see people learning from the others mistakes - I'd rather see people willing to openly support responsible riding, riding within their limits. Of course we'll never eliminate risks but you can stack the odds more in your favor.
Stunting in traffic, mountain road racing - it's all going to end up killing off more and more - and I'm betting we are going to see MUCH MORE RESTRICTIVE laws in the coming years.
Sad that somebody has to die but nobody seems to learn so we'll continue to see more friends sacrificed in the name of "doing something they loved." Sounds like sex between black widow spiders. Doing something they love and the guy dies doing it. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 01:32 am: |
|
That abomination on Speed channel isn't helping.
This guy didn't respect the flame. He got away with it long enough that he misjudged the perception of reality.
He to believed in "total control". |
Trac95ker
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 02:02 am: |
|
I agree that he shouldn't have done that but I will still feel compassion for someone who dies needlessly regardless of whose fault it is. |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |
|
There is no appropriate place to do wheelies on public streets... anywhere. Control of the motorcycle is drastically compromised during a wheelie. Wheelies serve no useful purpose on asphalt and doing them is hard on equipment, dangerous, and irresponsible
I do them all the time, though... Oh yes.
I'm pretty sure I'll get popped sooner or later. There is a good chance I'll be older than the police officer who catches me, and the judge who suspends my license. |
New12r
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 02:01 pm: |
|
Well label me irresponsible, I pull lots of wheelies, not usually in traffic but I have.
You dont need the front wheel to steer, wanna follow me round some corners on the back tire??
Anyone watched any stunt vids latelty??
DJ, It is a reckless driving ticket, no suspension of the DL, Trust me I know.
I agree dude was a fool for where he did it, I saw the vid and that was a dumb place to do it, but the Eyewitness did say he went through a GREEN LIGHT!?
(Message edited by new12r on October 08, 2006) |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 04:01 pm: |
|
Just because a light is green it does not always mean it is safe to go.
We've all seen people run red lights.
The fact that the mini-van was in the wrong doesn't do the rider any good at all now. |
Keys
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 05:45 pm: |
|
I noticed when I began riding again after a long break that people in vehicles paid more attention to me than before. Almost looking at me as though I was a circus act. I've been enticed by even a few drivers and even further harrassed to get me to react to their taunts. One driver actually steered into my lane from beside me when I would not race. I didn't race because I knew it would be point-less. He can't keep up, I thought. Luckily no other nuts were behind me so I could power brake.
But now I do sometimes think about how many people have seen these stunting videos, and now they seemingly want you to give them the thrill of a high-wire act without any net. And proper gear is no net -don't fool yourself -get away from those crazy fools trying to get you to wheelie or race asap!
Now actually I have seen some motorcycles wheelie on highways and I was indeed in awe. If I could do that I probably would. But if I saw a stunter wheelie-riding in traffic I would be sick.
About three weeks ago in Dallas -5:00 in the morning on a freeway. A convertible mercedes clipped a bike and caused two bikes in formation to go down. The girl riding passenger was killed. The mercedes got away and was never found.
The story was that the mercedes was attempting to provoke a RACE. He was behind the bikes and got mad that they stayed the speed limit and he then intentionally clipped the follow bike and fled.
I find the story tragic because the gentleman (with his girlfriend on the back) was probably being noble to the comfort of his girlfriend wanting not to experience any scary speeds.
Why did the merceded focus on the bikes - other cars must have been about. He pickes a couple without the airbags, the secured seat belts, and an apparent and remarkable restraint.
Who made us the performers?
Who is death-defying?
I think it's the stunters. I admire their skill and the bike-handling. I damn the implications of the distribution of their videos.
I can not ride a wheelie to SAVE myself or my passenger.
I had an emotional talk with my wife later. She had previously told me she wasn't comfortable above 80. She did not demand I stay below that - but (and you do know) that I have been considerate and a gentleman.
The talk was that if I had to hit 100+ to get away from some nut so I could then power break to get away with traffic separating us - I indeed would. Hopefully in my lack of that airbag, those safety-belts, and (now) my general lack of concern for anything save getting distance between me and a psychopathic drunk MF - I might actually do that coveted stunt for the drunk MF. A disappearing act surely. She is prepared for what to do. Sane cars safely between me and the nut. My safety belt.....
(((( oh, and if you see a store selling a DVD called bumfights. For it's implications alone, raise some cain! )))) |
Buellshyter
| | Posted on Sunday, October 08, 2006 - 10:16 pm: |
|
Doesn't look as though enough of the bike is left to even part out on eBay. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
|
Mark (Docktor),
Heading towards a turn-in point, the front wheel had better darn well be planted firmly on the tarmack. There just is no getting around that requirement. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:22 pm: |
|
Doesn't look as though enough of the bike is left to even part out on eBay.
Kinda hard to clean the rider out of them to make them sellable. |
Perry
| | Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 04:03 pm: |
|
quote:It really bothers me to see that some individuals have no compassion, tolerance or understanding for human life.
You got it backward. I have compassion, tolerance, and understanding for human life. It was the guy on the bike with no compassion for the soccer mom he was weaving around or even for his own mother who loved her son, no tolerance for laws based on public safety, and no understanding that humans make errors - as did the minivan driver. His disregard for the health, safety, and welfare of PEOPLE(including himself) disgusts me. It's lucky there weren't a bunch of other cars in the pileup and a few innocents killed too.
Stunt, race, etc. in the right time and place and I respect and admire that. But endanger the life of myself, my family, or other innocent bystanders and you are being a selfish, senseless, idiot - and I'll do what I can to stop you. He had no right to gamble with other people's lives. Obviously I'd rather have seen him *choose* not to do it again rather than losing the option forever.
That attitude and behavior costs us all - insurance premiums at a minimum, those we love at the high end of the price scale.
You guys who stunt in traffic are selfish immature jerks. Grow up. |
Skyguy
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 01:17 pm: |
|
Firt rule of riding in traffic. THERE ARE NO GREEN LIGHTS!!!!!!!! Every intersection is a yellow light regardless of what color you are actually seeing.
Stunters are generally baggy pant idiots. |
Macbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 01:29 pm: |
|
Some acts and their consequences do not warrant compassion. We all need to accept responsibility for our actions. This guy was doing something really stupid and it ended up getting him killed. It's just plain luck that no one else was hurt in the process. I have compassion, compassion for the person who was driving the car he ran into. Now they have to live with the fact a person was killed running into their car.
Right on SkyGuy. I usually ride through any intersection like an old lady, looking every which way, brakes covered, ready for anything and everything. The one day I drop my guard something is going to happen. Which brings us back to ATGATT. |
Bumblebee
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 02:50 pm: |
|
Ride like a nob, die like a dog... |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 04:34 pm: |
|
what will you do if the rear tyre blows out while you are on the back wheel
I will be asking myself why I was on the back wheel and not on the seat... duh. |
Pounder
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 06:44 pm: |
|
if he was on 2 wheels that bitch still woulda pulled out and same thing woulda happend not saying riding a wheelie through traffic is ok but she was still at fault bottom line. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 06:50 pm: |
|
Nobody with any real street experience charges into an intersection just as the light turns green. That's just stupid. Yes, the cager was at fault for running a red light, but the cyclist shares in the responsibility for riding like a nob. |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 06:51 pm: |
|
the video feed said he went thru a green light when he struck the van... hmmm... what was the van doing there?
woulda been tight if he would have went thru the van and somehow stayed upright and kept on riding (too many movies)! |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 07:08 pm: |
|
Do you think that the rider might have been better able to:
1) Evade the situation by having both wheels on the ground?
2) Decelerate to a point that the crash would hurt but wouldn't be lethal?
The minivan person was 100% at fault for creating a dangerous road condition. The rider was 100% at fault for not leaving sufficient margin of error to deal with dangerous road conditions. |
Grlryder
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 08:00 pm: |
|
Trac95ker...Hartford area
This thread's purpose is that no matter who was at fault, and whether or not you want to die with a smile on your face...public roads are not the place for stunting.
Perry...your post is perfect! |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 08:21 pm: |
|
Maybe if the gas tank wasn't in his face he would've seen the van in the intersection? |
|
