| Author | Message | ||
     Dan94gc |
Hey all, I've been back and forth about getting an XB for so long now, it's not even funny. My main issue, cold starts. A little background, I started on a YZF600R, then had a '86 Radian and then an '05 HD 1200 sportster. The sportster was a pain in my ass. Cold blooded as a bitch, then even when warm, if you were idling for a while (ie: stoplight) then cracked the throttle quickly at all, the bike would pop, or backfire. A few times it sounded like my air cleaner was going to blow off. Well, fast forward. I sold the HD, looking again at the Buells. I've test ridden the Lightning & Firebolt, both the 9 and 12. I love the character of the bike, the twin sings to me. My issue is the cold weather starts again. All of the bikes, except a used 9s, seemed to exhibit the same engine symptoms - not wanting to run while cold, popping/backfiring sounds when the throttle was rapped from an idle. Have they cured this? Will a intake/pipe/ecu fix this? When I took my HD back to the dealer, they told me it was super lean from the factory due to emissions and the only way to fix it was their stage 1 kit - for $500. I think a bike should run great when you buy it, not only after adding an additional $500+ in aftermarket parts, you know? Would love to hear your responses and suggestions. Oh, and is Ocala HD still have the best buell prices? Thanks, Dan | ||
| Xring |
My Buell was only cold-blooded when the AFV is adapting. This is covered in the owners manual, I believe, and involves running (that is, riding) at or near steady state for 15 minutes or so. Could be the reason the demo bikes did it and the used bike didn't. When my bike is in tune and adapted, it isn't cold-blooded. By the way, didn't your Sportster have a carb? The Buells are fuel injected. Good luck, Bill | ||
| Dan94gc |
Yes, it was carbed. Never heard of the AFV thing, and the dealer never mentioned it either - but I don't think the salesman I talked to much liked the Buells. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Don't look for these bikes to respond at idle like an I4. It's not an I4 it's a v-twin. | ||
| Sleez |
your cold blooded sportster could have been fixed with about 12.oo by rejetting! same with my S3, once rejetted was perfect! | ||
| M1combat |
You do tend to need to up the idle a tad over the winter. As far as a hickup off idle... mine does that if the idle is set too low. If it's too high it'll hang for just a bit at about 1800 RPM when it's coming down. Moral of the story... Set the idle right, Set the TPS correctly, keep the air filter clean/replaced, keep the plugs fresh. You should be whacking the throttle off idle anyway IMO, but that's just me  . | ||
| Pwnzor |
Don't you mean "shouldn't"? | ||
| Thumper2811 |
I ride my 'bolt in 30 degrees in th e winter and never had a problem with it running. Runs the same in the winter as it does in the summer. | ||
| Thumper2811 |
Oh buy the way you should not be wacking the throttle open at idle only makes you look like one of those harley guys that wants to be noticed. Most american bikes are injected, they should stay running at a stop light. | ||
| Dan94gc |
Thumper- I'm not talking about wacking the throttle to sound cool at a stoplight. I know it'll idle, and I know what the bike sounds like. But, if the light turns green, and I'd throttle up too quickly, it'd do the "hiccup" Now I know you're not going to say next that the Buells shouldn't be throttled up quickly are you? These are sportbikes, vtwin or not. They're supposed to be ridden hard, no? | ||
| Glitch |
But, if the light turns green, and I'd throttle up too quickly, it'll loop and leave you on your ass if your on an XB. They're supposed to be ridden hard, no? Yes they are, and after 46000+ miles, it only gets better! | ||
| Dan94gc |
Ok, let me remind people I'm asking a tech. question here. I am not asking how to ride, and I'm not a newbie to bikes. To say you'll instantly loop by throttling fast shows ignorance or inability to ride. Sorry if I'm coming off negative, I've really only had 1 good response from a board that usually gives good info. So, that being said, let me rephrase my original question. The hiccup/pop/backfire that occurs when throttling off idle - what is the fix? Is it merely a idle setting and TPS, or do you have to do something like the race kit? | ||
| Punkid8888 |
I have a brand new 06 XB9SX (2 weeks old), and I have noticed a few times a slight hicup when you flick the throttle. the first time was early in the morning (55F) and the bike had been idling for a little under 2 mins, and I went to hit the throttle and got a little fart instead. another time was when the bike had sat for about and hour in the evening and the temp has dropped about 15 20 degrees and I let it idle for about 1 min and again when to rev it up and got a hicup. that last time I remember was just sitting at a stop light with the bike fully warmed up and just went to hit the throttle and a little hicup. all three times it was only for second and would not duplicate it self after wards if I tried. I only now have 800 miles and my first service includes a throttle Position Sensor reset. I assuming that the factory has a large tolerance for the intial set, or they set it up a specific way to help aid in the initial break-in period (maybe giving it a slightly higher idle or a richer air fuel mixture, not really sure) from what I have read throughout this site is the TPS comes out of adjust pretty easily and is almost always the first place to start with any weird running condition. I assuming once I get mine serviced I will not experience this problem. That last thing I was wondering if these computers are learning style computers similar to most car computers. if so I would suspect that it will take a little bit of time before the computer has seen all types of riding conditions to be able to give the best response. Some one please correct me as most of that is just guessed. Hoped I helped | ||
| M1combat |
They do learn. Not "quite" like a car I think though. They get their learning done in about a minute. A harley engine (from what I understand), will do this. The solution is to set your idle as high as you can and not have it hang on the way down. Should be about 1040. Also make sure the TPS is set correctly. I have my idle set to about 950 in the summer and about 1050 in the winter. My bike DOES hickup on a throttle blip from idle sometimes. Not that often. The REAL solution is to roll that first 5 degrees of roll just a tad slower and then snap it open. It's not good form to just snap the throttle open from idle anyway... Not on anything... What's the point? | ||
| Dan94gc |
Alright, Punkid8888 - post up when you get that service done, I'd like to know if it cured the problem. I see what you're saying about easing into the first part of the throttle, that's what I ended up having to do with my sportster, I just didn't know if there was a fix - like the TPS adjustment. I found a new XB12r for $8660, sounds too good to be true, should I jump all over it? It's blue. | ||
| Daves |
Depends on how much they are going to tack onto that for "other" fees like frt,setup, the ever popular "Doc" fee. As far as the running issues you asked about. Let the bike warm up fully, before you take off. I let mine warm up about 5 minutes or so. When they are cold they are a little cold blooded. Just don't ride them when the motor isn't warmed up. Your Sportster was not jetted right as another poster said. We rejet ours(used to, the 07 are FI) before they ever left the dealership. There was no TPS adjustment on your Sportster. I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me with any other questions you may have. Now or in the future. | ||
| Daves |
PS your Sportster may have had an intake leak also? | ||
| Dpoole |
I live in Cleveland and ride when the roads are clear and the temperature is 30 degrees or better. I never heard of an XB being cold blooded until I read this. Warm it up for 30-60 seconds and you're fine - at least I am. | ||
| Retribution |
Quick: Can a TPS reset be done by ourselves or only at the Buell/HD service shop i.e. does it require a "direct link" or equipment of such sort? ('06 XB9SX) (Message edited by retribution on September 01, 2006) | ||
| Daves |
you would need the Techno software package or DL to do it yourself. A good shop should only charge you 1/2 an hour labor to do it for you. I have the software packages in stock and sell them for 195.25 if you need it so you can do it yourself. | ||
| Glitch |
Also don't "blip" the throttle before taking off. To say you'll instantly loop by throttling fast shows ignorance or inability to ride. Yeah, whatever.  | ||
| Tunes |
Basically, any engine, air or water cooled needs to come up to operating temperature before they run properly. My wife's Sportster is very cold-blooded compared to my Buell. Granted, her bike needs to be rejetted to cure this but, after an extended warm up period, it runs fine. My XB12 has the Buell Race Kit & 8K+ miles... I let the bike warm up for at least 4-5 minutes in the morning, no matter what the temperature is. Bike runs fine after it's warm AND these bikes run better the more miles you put on them. In conclusion, in my opinion, my XB is not cold-blooded. | ||
| Midknyte |
The reason fro blipping on your old bike is understood (by me anyway). I will only add that blipping the XB's will foul your plugs... Just so's you knows. | ||
| Thumper2811 |
Hey Dan94gc, I have never seen a blue XB12r, I've seen a '03 Xb9r in blue. But if you said you can get one for $8660 I would jump all over it. PS Didn't mean to upset you I was more or less picking on the "Harley Guys". | ||
| Lllbmanlll |
Dan94gc, I too am having the same issue with my XB12S. I have only had my Buell for a week now and wasn't sure if this was normal or not. I picked it up last Monday used with 2000 miles on it. It even has the race kit installed. So maybe that could answer your question about the kit helping resolve this issue or not. If I throttle up too quickly it hiccups or hesitates. I've also had it stall from throttling too quickly. So I've been having to ease on the throttle to eliminate this problem. And yes the bike does this when it's warmed up. Dan I did notice you live very close to me. Would anyone think this could be an elevation issue? Also from reading everyones comments I'm still confused about this issue. Is it normal or not? I think I will try some new plugs to see if that may help some. And if it doesn't I guess I'll have to contact my dealer because I really don't think this is normal. | ||
| M2nc |
My '99 M2 with its carburetor starts better than my FI '06 Uly, but keep in mind I have 50 Pilot jet and 200 main. I commute on the bikes and have started both Buells in 20°F mornings with no problems. The Uly will hiccup in cold weather until it warms up, the M2 is rock solid. As a matter of fact the only time I have been down on the street was riding to work one morning and I hit ice in a curve. Cold Natured! Yes they do very well in it. | ||
| Wademan |
Dan, I have to think you are just referring to the way the engine reacts to a blip at idle. Its NOT a I4. I4's will react instantly at idle and gain rpms fast. The Buell engine will sort of 'fart' for lack of a better word when blipped at idle. If a constant amount of slight throttle is held however this does not happen it just gains rpm smoothly. Hope that helps. The XB's are not cold blooded. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Wademan is right on the money. Blipping is bad. I had to break myself of it, and I still get paid with a hiccup when I order too much grease on my bacon. | ||
| Tunes |
Once my bike is warmed up, I can blip the throttle, but I had to modify the way I do it. I roll the throttle very slightly, then give a quick but short blip. 1/2 throttle blips are a thing of the past... my bike would usually cough when I attempted them. | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
Howdy, y'all! This Service Bulletin is now three years old, but might have some bearing on bikes that have a "stumble", depending on how consciencious the selling dealership was: SERVICE BULLETIN B-055 October 27, 2003 XB12 Driveability Diagnostics IMPORTANT NOTE In the interest of preserving customer safety and satisfaction, always check for outstanding recalls whenever any motorcycle is brought into your dealership for either maintenance or service. ©2003 Buell Motorcycle Company Purpose The XB12R/S Initial Care Program has identified some driveability concerns on a small population of motorcycles during the PDI. The symptom most often reported has been a stumble off idle and/or poor idle characteristics. To properly address these concerns and to ensure that our customers are delivered the most satisfying product, we have developed the following procedure to aid the technician in resolving these complaints. Motorcycles Affected 2004 XB12R/S motorcycles that exhibit driveability concerns after the PDI test ride outlined in the PDI manual. Required Dealer Action When performing the PDI on all Buell XB12 models, evaluate the performance of the vehicles and if necessary, use the following procedure to correct any issues noted on the test ride. The need for action will be determined by an evaluation of driveability during test ride. Only a small percentage of the vehicles will require any action. Service Procedure Inspect fuel injector wires: 1. Remove right side engine air scoop. 2. Inspect fuel injector wires. IMPORTANT NOTE Rear wire should be green with a grey tracer and the front wire should be white with a yellow tracer. Do not rely on the harness tags for this inspection, harnesses have been found with incorrect markings. a. If injector wires are crossed front to rear, correct wiring and retest vehicle. b. If injector wires are not crossed proceed to the next section. TPS Re-zero 1. Connect to Digital Technician and check for trouble codes before proceeding. 2. Select the Buell Calibration screen. 3. Select calibrations screen/TPS Function. 4. Select Buell TPS zero tab. 5. Select TP volts on screen. 6. Back off idle adjustment until TP volts stop decreasing and then continue to back out one full turn. 7. Open and snap shut throttle control grip 2-3 times. 8. Apply medium closed throttle pressure (rotate throttle grip to closed position). NOTE This is to ensure that the throttle plate is completely closed before beginning recalibration. 9. With ignition and run switch in the on position with engine off and throttle in the closed position press the TPS zero button at the bottom of the screen. 10. Select TPS zero button and perform TPS zero. NOTE When calibration is complete, dialogue box will appear on Digital Tech screen with message display “Command Sent Successfully”. Press OK. 11. Turn idle adjustment cable screw clockwise until TPS degrees read 5.2-5.6 degrees. 12. Run vehicle until engine temperature is at 320F (160° C). 13. Set idle to 1050-1150 RPM. 14. Reset AFV to 100% and print data sheet. Test Ride (as outlined in PDI) NOTE The process listed in the PDI manual ensures the bike is operated in “closed loop learn” which should allow the AFV to adapt to current conditions. 1. Reset AFV to 100% before test ride. 2. Test ride the vehicle as described in the PDI manual. 3. Reset idle speed as required. 4. After the test ride record the AFV reading________%. 5. Driveability acceptable? NOTE If driveability is not acceptable, proceed to the next section. Verify Fuel Pressure 1. See FUEL PRESSURE TEST in the appropriate service manual in order to confirm that the fuel pressure is between 49-51 PSI (338-352 kPa). 2. Start vehicle and read fuel pressure and record reading. Verify Static Timing IMPORTANT NOTE See Digital Technician and the applicable service manual for instructions. NOTES ● Test ride motorcycle. Has the driveability issue been resolved? ● If the driveability issue has not been improved, see Important Note IMPORTANT NOTE If after following the above procedures the vehicle fails to perform properly, please call the XB12R/S Initial Care phone line (414) 343-8357 which allows direct access for technical support and warranty pre-approval decisions. CREDIT PROCEDURE / VEHICLE REPAIR After servicing each vehicle, file a warranty claim referencing Service Bulletin B-055 in the “Description of Repair” or “Comments” section of the claim. Please note the procedure does not require you to list a causal/failed part. Fill in the rest of the claim as follows: Table 1. TPS Re-zero Claim Type* BMC/BPD Primary Labor Code 7472 Time: Includes test ride 0.4 hr (All Models) Customer Concern Code 9203 Condition Code 9110 Table 2. Verify Fuel Pressure Claim Type* BMC/BPD Primary Labor Code 7477 Time: 0.5 hr (All Models) Customer Concern Code 9203 Condition Code 9110 Table 3. Verify Static Timing Claim Type* BMC/BPD Primary Labor Code 7478 Time: Includes test ride 0.5 hr (All Models) Customer Concern Code 9203 Condition Code 9110 Good luck, HellBuelly J "You see, I don't know how to ride a motorcycle, actually." --Henry 'If only I'd had a Buell' Winkler |
