| Author | Message | ||
     Skyguy |
I would love to see Buell "take-off". As long as they have people like Court out there helping people out with dealer issues they will go far. I have seen him get involved to help others many times and I am a relative nooby to Buell. It is this grass roots approach that will make Buell work. How to fix the issue with bad dealers? I don't have a clue. I really hope it gets settled out though. In fact Court just saved me from being an ex Buell owner as I was going to sell my bike as soon as it was fixed. This last issue with two dealers refusing to even look at anything other than H-D net. Or for that matter to even call up Buell to check out my very valid (safety related) Wheel bearing issue. It was the last straw for me. I was going to be done with Buell. The bearing issue came up way to close to the end of all my belt drama (and subsequent whining). I hope Buell takes good care of ya Court. You have saved them many customers (including me) from what I can tell. | ||
| Court |
>>>I would love to see Buell "take-off". Let me guess....that's a quote you learned in the aviation field?  | ||
| Skyguy |
What made ya think that lol  | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
}>>>I would love to see Buell "take-off". Let me guess....that's a quote you learned in the aviation field? Or Canada, eh? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Hosers!  | ||
| Whodom |
Did you see that? It was a beauty movie, eh? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Not in a while, I'll have to rent it and watch it in 3-B (three-beers)! | ||
| Court |
I'm assuming you guys noticed a significant change in Harley-Davidson stock this week? We're having the funnest discussions in my house. It's great to be married to a Wall Street executive. They all try to "make sense" of and explain Harley-Davidson logically. Her saving race is that she is an experienced Baja "Touring Chris Haines" veteran which has allowed her to see through some of the Wall-Speak. Folks continue shorting Harley and getting their asses kicked. Good times to have some Russian oil and Japanese bank stocks to fall back on! Harley-Davidson is absolutely amazing. | ||
| Reddog3624 |
They weren't too amazing back in the early 80's when the US government had to put a tariff on imported bikes 750 cc's and larger. They almost went under. That was some fine quality coming from AMF before that also. Be careful. Be VERY careful, because someday the fad may wear out and people might wake up to the fact that anything America can make, Japs can make better. (Message edited by reddog3624 on August 12, 2006) | ||
| Court |
>>>>Japs can make better. Actually, you might be right, the operative word being "CAN". No Japanese motorcycle manufacturer is currently producing a more trouble free motorcycle than Buell Motorcycle Company. Now, don't go misconstruing that to imply that they are "bad", you'll get me in trouble with one of my good friends in Torrance, CA who leads Honda USA R&D....they are FINE motorcycles, so are the Buells. The old "USA is inferior" is as outdated as $1.00 gas. Times, my friend are changing. My wive's last 3 cars have all been Saabs; they were bullet proof. Now Saab is next the the bottom, something like 56th out of 57 in terms of defects. The current Saabs suck, eclipsed only by the Land Rover. By the way. . . on the topic of quality, my wife and I just bought a new Ford and a new Mercedes-Benz the same day. Guess which, and it's backed up my the J.D. Powers results, is the most reliable? The Mercedes went in, along with two McLaren's the same morning, for a new steering box with less than 500 miles. The other good thing I'll share with you is that your "Japs can make better" may hold some promise in the future....'cause I know who's been visiting the Buell factory trying to figure out how the heck ANYBODY can build ANYTHING by human hands and make it this consistent. Also, you stopped talking to fast and cut yourself off in that "tariff tirade" right before the part where Rich Teerlink made the big appearance with President Reagan and announced that Harley-Davidson was requesting an early termination to the tariff to allow Harley-Davidson to compete on it's "own two wheels". You also left out the part about the American Courts taking a hard look at the Japanese for "dumping", the process of selling a product that costs $3,000 to make for $2,000 to eliminate competition. By the way.....I ended up, quite by accident with a shit load of HDI (Now HOG) stock in 1983 and I find those who bought about the same time, and have found their $1.00 investment blossoming into $1,000 less inclined to share your views. I first heard the "this bubble has got to burst" logic while riding my FLHTC across the country with Teerlink to the HD 85th Anniversary bash. I heard it again at the 90th. I heard it again, while working for Buell, at the 95th. I heard it at the 100th. I predict that things at HOG will ACTUALLY get better, not worse, in the next 3 years. Court | ||
| Whodom |
Court, Thanks for the history refresher, but this brings a question to mind: It seems that "conventional wisdom" has been that HD has supported and will hopefully continue to support Buell through thin times just in case the bubble bursts at some time in the future. If HD continues to do well or even better, is this a good thing for Buell or a bad thing? | ||
| Skyguy |
I see H-D going on for a long time. They will have to change their styles and add some bikes for the younger crowd though. I don't know anyone younger than myself (41) that would ever want to ride an 800 pound piece of chrome. Not saying that there are not some younger cruiser types because I am sure there are. I think Buell will become a lot more profitable in the future than H-D currently thinks. | ||
| Reddog3624 |
Actually, you might be right, the operative word being "CAN". No Japanese motorcycle manufacturer is currently producing a more trouble free motorcycle than Buell Motorcycle Company. I'm very sorry, but having owned dozens of bikes, 2 Buells & 3 Harleys included, I can categorically say that EVERYTHING Jap I have owned, has been of far superior quality to anything American made. I would like to see some real Stats on this, instead of brand devoted rhetoric. I "rebuilt" my latest Buell in all carbon last year and it's a damn good thing I did, because half the bolts were missing & the others were only finger tight. These things literally vibrate themselves apart. I had my Buell shifter FALL OFF in the middle of a very long trip. Don't get me wrong, I love my Buell for what it is, but I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not. | ||
| Grimel |
}people might wake up to the fact that anything America can make, Japs can make better. And anything the Japs can make the pick your country can make better. Time and time again we hear of the horrid quality of American goods - here. Yet, for some strange reason American goods are coveted in other places. Of course we haven't touched on the most productive workers yet. No touring bike from Japan is built better than a H-D Electra Glide. | ||
| Reddog3624 |
Also, you stopped talking to fast and cut yourself off in that "tariff tirade" right before the part where Rich Teerlink made the big appearance with President Reagan and announced that Harley-Davidson was requesting an early termination to the tariff to allow Harley-Davidson to compete on it's "own two wheels". This, as I’m sure you know, was due entirely to the “Cruiser” market and Buell had absolutely nothing to do with it. Americans had become dumber and more insecure and every Yuppie moron wanted to be a “Biker” as the ultimate masculine inadequacy eradicator and to participate in the latest fad, just like the SUV (Now there’s a real practical item also!) THAT is why Harley was able to become financially solvent and if not for the initial tariff, quite probably would have gone the route of Indian, Excelsior, Etc. | ||
| Reddog3624 |
No touring bike from Japan is built better than a H-D Electra Glide. I'm very sorry again, but that is almost too comical to comment on. Or, coming from someone who has never ridden an Aspencade, BMW, or Yamaha’s brilliant FJR 1300. | ||
| Whodom |
I'm very sorry again, but that is almost too comical to comment on. Or, coming from someone who has never ridden an Aspencade, BMW, or Yamaha’s brilliant FJR 1300. Undoubtedly, those bikes are more advanced designs than any Harley, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're of better quality (i.e.- have fewer defects). | ||
| Court |
Shhhhhh. . . . I own and ride a BMW. Let him keep talking, I GOTTA hear the rest of this. | ||
| 44mag2 |
I have owned jap bikes (Suzuki)and automobiles(Nisson). My own experience says that the american bikes (Sportser and Buell) and definitely american cars and trucks (Dodge, Ford, Saturn) are FAR superior in design and quality. Americans tend to watch too much TV and subsequently get brainwashed by the Toyota commercials saying Jap vehicles are better. Drive what you want. Based on experience, I prefer American. However, I tend to like Jap electronics better! | ||
| Rubberdown |
Hmmmm I own and ride a BMW as well (05' R1200ST), its a fine machine with zero issues.....like my Buells (04 XB12S and '03 XB9R) and HD's (04' XL1200R and 05' Springer Classic) that I have owned. My only problem with the HD's is that they have an very limited "funvelope". As far as stocks...I'm out. I like Real Estate. | ||
| Grimel |
I'm very sorry again, but that is almost too comical to comment on. Or, coming from someone who has never ridden an Aspencade, BMW, or Yamaha’s brilliant FJR 1300. First, last I checked BMW wasn't a Jap bike. Second, you are mistaking technology for quality. Third, since you mentioned it, BMW has had a rather well documented final drive issue (IIRC they finally fixed last year). Aspencade is an older Honda. I can't remember if that was the 'wing with electrical (stator) problems. Honda did fix the cracking frames, good for them, on the new 'wings. FJR, have they fixed the roasted rider issues yet or do the buyers still have to fix it? Have they upgraded the undersized electrical system yet? | ||
| Court |
By the way. . . I just bought the BMW Factory Service manual. Can you say $134.00? This sumbitch BETTER be good. | ||
| Court |
Actually....can you say $134.00 CD? | ||
| Superdave |
Yeah? I have one of those BMWs too ('06 1200GS) . At nearly twice the price of a CityX with nearly twice the problems. And can we say "warranty hassles"? At least Buell admits there is a problem when one exsists. BMW told me there is no such thing as **** problem. Right. Hahaha... I could have bought 3 XB9's for what I have spent on this "advanced technology" bike in the last 8 months alone (including the cost of the bike). When I get back on a Buell it will be forever. Learnt my lesson I did. | ||
| Adamcooney |
Drive and own what you like people. There's a reason there are thousands of different types of vehicles and motorcycles; so people have choices in what THEY like better. I LOVE the new Yamaha R6 for this year, but I wouldn't own one as I can't stand riding in that position. I've owned all types of vehicles from a 1964 Chevy Belair with a 4 pump Hi-Lo hydraulic setup to a 2002 Subaru WRX with a fully built motor running close to 400AWHP & Mid 300's Tq. I've owned slammed trucks, huge lifted trucks, daily driver trucks, and beater trucks and they've all got their positive's and negatives just like ANYTHING does. Drive what you like and what makes YOU feel happy and obviously what you can afford, haha. I'd love to rock out a Ferrari 360 Spyder, but that's not going to happen. If you read too much into something you will ALWAYS find people giving it praises, and people talking it down, of ANY VEHICLE out there. This goes for anything known to existance as well. If it exists, there is probably a forum or something of that nature for it. And there will be people saying how bad *it* is and how good *it* is. You'll never purchase or do anything if you research that much into it. Do research from independant companies, from people who have went to a place whether it be tanning or tattoos and not so much on the forums as where people don't just post "Yeah man my motorcycle is running awesome today, later!". People post problems, so do research that way and I found it to be a much better way to live without so much of the drama. | ||
| 44mag2 |
BTW ... My financial adviser just recommended HOG. He says that it is cyclical, meaning that he gets in, and sells 9 months later for a 20% profit, then it drops, and he waits for it to cycle again. Sounds like voodoo ... but maybe his strategy will work. He has done OK with my other investments so far. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Well said Adam. | ||
| Grimel |
Drive and own what you like people. I have and do. I just get TIRED of the constant H-D is junk, Jap is great. I also get tired of if it isn't the latest tech it's crap. There is a reason it's called the bleeding edge. | ||
| Adamcooney |
No I understand where you're coming from Grimel, I'm the same way with that too. People at my work were busting my balls since I just picked up a 2002 Chevy Tracker saying it's disposable and a piece of junk, blah blah blah. Just because it doesn't ride luxury like and is pretty basic. But to me it's perfect. It's a small suv that I can use for lugging my drum equipment around, it gets 25+mpg, I like the looks of them especially lifted they look bad ass! Plus I got it with 41000 miles for 7800 bucks. It's automatic, 4 cylinder, power everything, etc. I just did a 30,000 service and all new brakes all around and I'll be set forever with it now, lol. But I mean it doesn't have to have all the thrills to be just as good as something that has tons of stuff. I LOVE older CJ7's lifted and locked as they're bulletproof, but they get •••••• gas mileage and aren't practical for a daily. That doesn't mean it's junk in any way shape or form. Which is why I got mine sicne it's 4 door with "hatch" and it's got room inside and they're acutally EXTREMELY capable offroad especially lifted. But anyways... I'm selling my 06' Ss and getting a 1999 X1 to use as my donor bike for my mutant chopper. The chopper is going to have a 250 rear, and just taillight and headlight. Very basic as far as mechanically wise and electrical, but I guarantee you it will be bulletproof once it's all built, said and done. So... saying something is JUNK because it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, is COMPLETE BS!!! Thank you. =0) | ||
| Xlcr |
About the tariff, let's forget the pro-Japanese spin and talk about how it really came down. What brought it on was the great sales slump of the early '80s. Harley immediately cut their production, but the Japanese just closed their eyes and pretended it wasn't happening. Harley was afraid that sooner or later the Japanese would start selling off the three years of back stock that had piled up by 1983. There are more than a few here old enough to remember the full page ads with fire sale prices on one,two, and three year old machines, and remember the dealer backrooms full of unsellable Japanese bikes, and remember the dealer closings, and the massive drops in resale value. The revisionists have had their way with motorcycle history, even motojournalists that know better have had their hand in perpetrating the myth of how it was the tariff that hurt the Japanese and the customer. The problem is, too many people are still around that remember what actually happened. As far as I can see, the tariff didn't help Harley at all, because once the secret was out and the tariff had been passed there was nothing to stop the Japanese from dumping their leftovers, which, as I mentioned, they did, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here that remembers the sale ads. Everyone who was reading magazines at the time saw them. Also, the tariff didn't effect the prices of Japanese bikes that were made here, and in fact Honda and Kawasaki already had factories here in the states at the time, and they transfered a lot of production to them in order to get around the tariff. Another way to get around it was it had a 750cc bottom limit. As many of the most successful Japanese models of the time were 750s, they simply destroked them to 700cc and got them in under the tariff. So, the tariff did NOT prevent Harley's worst nightmare from happening. The market in fact WAS flooded with cheap Japanese bikes. But it didn't kill Harley. In fact, Harley's amazing resurgence started happening at the very time you could get a leftover Japanese bike dirt cheap. What saved Harley was NOT the tariff, it was the Evo Softtail, no doubt one of the greatest sales successes in motorcycle history. On the other hand, what really DID hurt the Japanese was the sales slump itself, which started three years BEFORE the tariff was passed, in 1980. For that reason you can't blame the slump on the tariff, though many have tried. My belief is that the tariff helped the Japanese, not Harley. Because until the tariff was passed, the Japanese were not dealing with reality. They had never known anything but success and growth, and when the market started nose-diving they had no idea what to do, they had no experience with a shrinking market, so they wrung their hands and did nothing. The factories kept rolling full speed and the bikes kept piling up. Who knows how long they would have continued with that madness if the tariff hadn't come along to slap them in the face and make them wake up and smell the coffee. As it was, it was the overproduction that was killing them, and after the tariff was passed they finally stopped, and in my opinion, in so doing saved themselves from total disaster. I don't know if they would have stopped in time to save what was left of their tattered reputation without the tariff. Now, what they were doing is called dumping, it is against international trade law, and has been for a very long time. It's called exporting unemployment, and penalizing companies who do it isn't protectionism, it's common sense. Anti-dumping laws are intended to protect companies from unfair trade practices and to level the field so all have a fair chance to succeed. In the end, Harley succeeded without any real help from the tariff, and the Japanese got a much needed lesson in market fluctuation and international trade law. The government were 100% right in passing it, and in the end it obviously saved the Japanese from themselves. End of story, and every word the true facts of the matter. |
