| Author | Message | ||
     Thespive |
I would like to point out that I just bought my '06 CityX last week after lusting over Buells for several years. I have been riding cafe Sportsters and finally made the upgrade to a true balanced machine. The thing that got me to purchase my bike was a demo ride at a dealership, I even e-mailed Erik Buell directly, thanking him and telling him how impressed I was with the product and that I planned on buying one soon, would you believe he e-mailed me back saying thanks for the comments that day! Can you believe it, talk about someone who cares about his customers. My biggest beef with BMC right now is that I live in Orange County, California and there are no longer any Buell dealerships (but 3 Harley dealers). My closest Buell dealer is 40 miles away and the dealership that I bought my CityX from is 100 miles away, and this is in the middle of So Cal. I don't know who my servicing dealer will be or what I'll do if I'll have to leave the bike! The lone dealer that used to be an H-D/Buell dealer only sells H-D now and I don't know why. If it had been any other bike, this would have been an obstacle to my purchase, but coming from riding H-D bikes, I get Buell, respect Buell and know it is the best for me. Lastly, I have 200 miles on my bike now and I just noticed a tiny 1/16th -1/8th cut in side the seat. I picked my bike up at night and didn't notice it before, and am not sure what to do about. Would this be a warranty issue, or am I SOL? Thanks for any advice, and thanks for reading about my experience. --Sean | ||
| Kevinfromwebb |
Court, I do have a question for ya if you don't mind. First off, I'm not complaining just curious. I"ve got a '04 12R, no problems to speak of except:the charging system went out last May at 13.5k on the clock, it was fixed under warranty. Went out again last month with 24.5K on the clock,fixed under extended warranty. I talked the tech who worked on it and was impressed, he was having problems with the electrical system on an xb soon after they came out and BMC sent an engineer down to help with the problem... He did mention that the stator had been 'improved', the way the wires were attached to the stator had been strengthened... Is my bike a fluke or is there some problem with the dependability or reliability of the charging system? Maybe a vender problem with a regulator not regulating??? I'm thinking I've heard of a few people having this problem. While I haven't called cs I was wondering if they knew of a problem and if there was a fix or design change in the works??? Oh, by charging system I mean the stator and regulator... Thanks, Kevin | ||
| Onemanclan |
Entertained? I don't have a webcam, but if I did you'd see me dancing! I'm sorry for any hard feelings Court... | ||
| Grimel |
The MUST be an easier way to get entertained. Ride more, post less.  | ||
| Rocket_fuell |
I would like to chime in on the dealership vs buell customer service issue. I read this forum every day but never really chime in but this topic struck a chord with me. October 2005 I made my first motorcycle purchase and it was a Buell 2003 Lightning XB9S. I never rode or owned one before this moment but had always wanted to. I call myself doing responsible research before finally choosing to go with Buell. I had a police buddy who rides motors give me the motorcycle safety training as he is a certified instructor...this was very convenient for the work schedule. My problem or issue with Buell began at the dealership. I have yet to have a problem, warranty or otherwise with the bike(knocking on wood). I was sold what was advertised as a new bike never ridden. I know this because I specifically asked before I bought...hence the only stupid question is the one not asked. After I purchased the bike and was being briefed on the owners manual the tech turned the ignition on a low and behold the bike had 106 miles on it. I inquire and find out that the bike was a demo given out to a rider's group as a promo from the dealership in 2003. Well I am pretty meticulous about my vehicles and knew all to well how important the break-in period was to any machine. If given the choice between the bike I bought and the other on the floor without any demo miles....Well you get the point.. Mistake 1, I felt that since the loan was already signed and money was delivered that what was done was done. I thought that in the end I would have a better relationship with the dealer over the life of the bike if I just didn't make a mountain out of it. First service call rolls around and I ride the bike over to the dealership. I met with the manager and he takes the bike to the service area. A little time passes and I decide to enter the shop to see what all was involved with the service. I asked for permission from one of the techs and enter. To my shock I see that my rear tire has been burned out with the melted and curled up rubber all over the tire and underside of the bike as evidence. Worse yet is that my best friends firebolt is sitting on the lift next to mine and was the same. The techs even made smart ass comments like " you shouldn't do that to you tires" followed by snickering. Well I wanted to explode but I knew that being the only Buell dealer in the state of Mississippi they had me over a barrel. I decided to not fight it out in the store but to take it to Buell directly. Make matters worse the techs even scratched the air box on mine and my friend's bike with their cool HD belt buckles during the check ride. Get the bike home and check the oil....1/2 quart low (insult to injury). I call Buell and explain what had taken place at the dealership from the beginning. The lady was very nice and receptive. She informed me that I would need to put it in writing and fax the letter to Buell. Well I write the letter along with my friend and fax them to Buell. After 2 weeks of waiting on a reply I finally called Buell and was told that the letters were not received and that a file could not be opened for my case until it was received. I send the letters again and had to call for about three days in a row before someone confirmed that they were received. That was about the time I discovered this forum. I quickly picked up on the fact that Daves and Court were the people to talk to about such things. Daves and Court were both happy to help and I sent them copies of the letters I sent to Buell. Both Daves and Court replied that they would help in any way. Court as I remember suffered a loss in his family around that time so I didn't really expect a man to worry with such things during a time like that. I am nonetheless deeply grateful for his willingness to lend any assistance. Daves contacted me via e-mail and shared my feelings about the matter and stated that he would make some calls. Both of these men are class acts and I can not thank them enough. Buell on the other hand did not do anything about my grievance. The lady on the phone stated that these were dealer issues and would have to be solved by the dealer. I stated to her how I felt thinking that Buell should get involved in such matters when dealers obviously do wrong. I felt like my rear tire and airbox cover should at least been replaced. Buell stated that it was not a Buell issue but a dealer issue. I couldn't understand that logic but oh well. Buell stated that the dealer would contact me and my friend about replacing the tires and other issues we might have.....never got a call....Buell never called....never heard from anyone. I think that the dealer did wrong by me and my friend and Buell's lack of intervention only made it worse. I can live with jerk dealers that kinda stuff happens but it's the company's problem in the long run. These kind of things can drive away repeat business. They are the only Buell dealer in the state so if I want to buy a new Buell locally.....Not So I can see where sales are lost to a-holes out there selling Buells. That is a real big problem. I have put 6k on the bike and it has been alot of fun but it would have been nice for Buell to have gotten involved with my situation. It certainly would make me feel better about the prospect of buying another Buell. | ||
| Skully |
Hey Grimel I too was in that dealership and was less than impressed. Keith | ||
| Chainsaw |
Is my bike a fluke or is there some problem with the dependability or reliability of the charging system? See profile. We've both got flukes.  | ||
| Anonymous |
HD and its dominant profit center controls the game, for better or WORSE. Take a closer look at all the profitable quarters and see if you can match it against using huge cash reserves (over $1 Billion) to buy back stock. What does this do? It continues to prop up a stock price that Wall Street has already seen through. The Street has gotten smart though - the first analyst report (Banc of America, October 2005, "An American Icon in Decline; Downgrading Harley to Sell") that was negative on HDI stock came out last Fall, and even with a remarkable product launch for MY2007 last month July 2006 (bigger engines and 6 speed trannys across the product line) - the stock only went up $1. Which is about 2% of the stock price. It is very hard for an "HD" employee to try to support Buell. Buell is often forgotten about in the corporate discussions, and has to pay for everything itself - from marketing, advertising, promotions, demo rides, etc etc etc. HD employees that try to support Buell outside of their direct responsibility often get punished or pushed aside. The dealer network? The top 10 Buell dealers in the domestic market didn't even sell 600 bikes COMBINED in 2005. Until the Buell line can be profitable for a dealership, why would it make sense for a delaership to invest in staff, parts, technicians, etc.? FYI - Buell broke even this year. It's the first time it hasn't lost money according to the corporate bean-counters. It's a darn shame. | ||
| Grimel |
Until the Buell line can be profitable for a dealership, why would it make sense for a delaership to invest in staff, parts, technicians, etc.? It's called building a market. Suppose I wanted to start supplying widgets to company X. My first step is to figure out what type of widgets X will buy. Second, I have to call on X. Third, I have to somehow convince X to buy my widgets over my competators. I need SOMETHING to help me get an edge. Say I find 3 or 4 tests showing my widgets were the best all time widgets. I can trumpet that. Now, X is looking at my widgets. Calls my salesman up to buy my widgets. Instead of selling my best of show widgets the salesman starts pushing another percieved to be lower quality widget at 2x the price. Furthermore, if X manages to persist and buy my widgets anyhow if at every service call, delivery, and/or purchase they are ignored, mistreated, and generally abused - just how long do you think I'll be selling widgets to X and how long will it take me to become profitable selling widgets in general? That is exactly what is happening to Buell. The Japanese have an inferior product. They market it based on meaningless HP, 1/4 mile, and top end statistices. If you go into a Big 4 dealership the salesmen meet you, ask what you are looking at and riding you will be doing. When you anser those questions what do they do? They start telling you how great your choice is and how wonderfully the bike holds up. Try that in a Buell dealership the odds are the salesman will listen to you say CityX, Lightning Long, Uly, and push you off on a Sportster/Super Glide AND it's doubtful if there will be a 2006 Buell on the floor. If you don't carry the bike, you can't sell the bike. Yes, this iritates me. Before I was laid off I could have bought a Buell, but, the local morons didn't have anything that interested me (5 2-3 year old bikes at 2 shops). I've regretted the Honda I'm riding ever since. I start a well paying job Monday. I'll be buying something between Thanksgiving and Christmas. | ||
| Court |
>>>Would this be a warranty issue, or am I SOL? Easy fix | ||
| Onemanclan |
This, I believe, will be my last post on this subject (I'm not making any promises!). To revisit my very first post that started this whole thing... Anonymous wrote, "The dealer network? The top 10 Buell dealers in the domestic market didn't even sell 600 bikes COMBINED in 2005. Until the Buell line can be profitable for a dealership, why would it make sense for a dealership to invest in staff, parts, technicians, etc.? " This was exactly my point (without knowing the details about how many bikes Buell sells). When a company is as profitable as HD they tend to have a "if it ain't broke" attitude. That is what I meant by "falling on deaf ears". I can't comment on how Buell deals with customer service, I haven't called them. My comments are directed at my interaction with over a half dozen HD dealers. Next step call Buell, hmm, DUHH is right! On another thread I posted about my interaction with Santa Cruz HD and their attitude with me when I was simply looking for a Buell tshirt. "We sell 500 HDs a year and only 2 Buells per month". He went on to say their retail space (for clothing and such) was "far too valuable" to waste it with Buell stuff. I hardly think Buell needs to get a phone call from me because HD dealers don't have the same affinity for Buells as I do. I expect they already know...BTW, Court promised to take care of me on this issue. That is when I discovered he worked for Buell (I just figured out Davo does too). One last thing, to quote Grimel, "ride more, post less". Thanks for the wisdom! I'm riding out of Reno today up through 89 and 49 to an awesome swimming hole on Golden Lake. Time for some twisties! | ||
| Davegess |
Court does not work for Buell, good thing too, that way they can't fire him  He is the guy to go to when other channels fail. Rocket Fuell the Service techs did burnouts iwth your bike? Did the dealer buy you new tires or were you already buying new tires? What did the owner have to say about these guys doing burnouts on your bike? | ||
| Blake |
Court, "Between being dubbed a serial liar and crapped on for being enthusiastic, I'm not at all certain why I spend my time and money on this. There MUST be an easier way to get entertained." Ditto that thought. I think the answer has something to do with character and less to do with being entertained. I know you are a character. When discouragement looms, remember this. | ||
| Reddog3624 |
It seems Buell is the red headed step-child of HD. I've had a hard time finding shops that carry Buell parts, or are willing to even work them. Harley can have all the most impressive sales figures they want, but if I can't get MY bike serviced, it's Not my idea of good customer service. | ||
| Thespive |
BTW, does anyone know if a H-D dealer can order Buell parts? Just curious. As for the dealer network, I feel that Harley should sell Buell the way Toyota sells Scion and BMW sells Mini - in a stand alone dealership, within a dealership. You set up a mini-Buell dealership inside the H-D dealer with dedicated staff and parts, and its own design and make it less intimidating for the new H-D rider to browse, learn, and experience. Maybe you even have an exterior entrance that only goes in tot he Buell area? I don't know, it is just a thought, but I rather see the Buells in their own dedicated area with merchandise and bikes, rather than being mixed in with the H-D bike. I think that would solve a lot of problems with the dealership network/experience. --Sean | ||
| Marijane0569 |
I agree w/ Thespive on the whole Buell dealer/ merchandise thing. I would love to own a full on cupboard full of Buell glasses and plates, coffee cups, and the like. Court, I really enjoyed that article on Buell. Thanks alot. "MJ" | ||
| Marhaba |
For all those who've had problems at their dealerships... I would like to say that there are a few good ones out there. It just takes a little 'creativity to find them. Court, I must say that your example of customer service for the Dutch guy from New York was truly above and beyond. You also have to say that the very very few dealerships who have Buell 'specialists' if you will, are those who take the time to learn about the product on their own. I took on the idea of being the Buell salesperson and got zero support from the other sales staff, and actually got the most ridicule from the other salesmen. The guys certainly don't care, and they are only too happy to send those looking for Buells my way because they don't care to learn about them. I pushed and pushed and pushed for the idea, and finally I got my way for even having Buells on the floor, so now there's two Uly's one with the stock seat, and one with the reduced reach seat, two Firebolts, and three Lightnings on the sales floor, and even then it was like pushing a rope up a hill to even get that. (I think that they were humoring me, and besides I roped the new guys into moving them onto the floor when the GM wasn't there and the assistant manager didn't care what I was doing) So now they sit at the front of the dealership right as you walk in. The point is, maybe I'm just ranting, is that I hate hearing about how other dealerships just do not care about Buells. It frustrates me and the others out there who care and appreciate these bikes. I'm not dissing or downplaying anybody's complaints with HD dealerships, I'm just saying that I'm sorry that it happens. By the way, what is a widget and where do I find one? | ||
| Court |
>>>>BTW, does anyone know if a H-D dealer can order Buell parts? No. The reasons are simple commercial issues and have merit. Imagine yourself as having just entered into the Buell Dealer Contract. You've bought and installed the outdoor sign, you answer your phone with "Buell" in the greeting and you've popped the thousands of bucks to put folks in rooms in Milwaukee while they go to Buell School. Now you find that the guy 1.75 miles down I-438, who's paid not a penny, has access to the same parts you do and is allowed to provide all the same parts and services that you paid to get exclusive area rights to. The Buell Dealer problem is a big one and the next big hurdle Buell must leap. It's a shame its lingered so long. If you want to see a description of my interpretation, you could read it in the 2nd issue of Battle2Win that was published in 1996; that's right 10 years ago. There are, I think, many solutions. The first challenge is convincing folks that in order to "think outside the box" you can't simply transfer people around in the box and call it creative. Significant damage was done to the dealer system, in my opinion, in about 1999. I still remember sitting in the seminar listening to "Frick and Frak" espouse their goal of "adding 350 dealer in the next year". Simple hydraulics tells me that adding 350 taps to a water line produces not one more drop of water...it just distributes things differently and makes the spigots impossible to maintain. We're living in different times with different values. I think this affords Buell some incredibly interesting options on how to go about resolving the dealer puzzle. The demand elasticity for Buell tells me that, within a fairly defined range, I can run rampant with price....I can sell the machine for a profit. But the slope of that elasticity curve gets steep past $10K and goes vertical about $12K. I'm convinced the ultimate solution, like the brakes and the frame, will treat us to a wonderfully innovative arrangement we've never seen. Kinda "different in every sense". Buell is positioned to do some GREAT things....delivering them in an ordinary package will dilute the goods. The solution, I hope, will recognize that Buell, given its size and market position, can do some things, unique to them, that no other company could do. In order to maximize passion and owner loyalty (willingness to spend-propensity to make repeat purchases) Buell MUST define this new thinking. Buell, and old timers have tired of hearing me say this, enjoys the unique ability to be "mobile, agile and hostile". They've proven they can get into and exploit a market about as quickly as anybody. They didn't do it well last time, but they did it. They must not allow themselves to get drug onto the playing field where traditional values (as an example....buying on price alone) dictate. Differentiation is everything. It explains why a customer buys an $11,500 XB12X and not a $5,000 KLR650 or $8,000 BMW F650. I'd start the dealer renovation process by gathering a group of people (yes, I've had the list for a couple years) and having them write down 10 things Buell can do that Honda, Yamaha, BMW, et al CAN NOT DO. I'd learn what we have that money can't buy and numbers can make....I want to know where "passion" is the currency. Then I'd realize that what I am about to do has never been done. There are no models to be emulated. I'd want it to be front cover stuff of business magazines....it's my style, but I'd want to set the industry on its ass. Then I'd get those same folks to prepare a script for a Buell "highlight film". We've had some moments that are absolutely amazing. Name 10 and let's try to find the elements and the environment that brought them about. My personal example would be the problem with the amber heels guards. Someone posted their problem on the internet. It was less than an hour before two guys at Buell were working on a solution (this was on a Monday you may recall - I keep notes ) and by Wednesday the process had been revamped, all 57 units in stock at Franklin were on the way to the vendor to be checked to make certain they were right, all dealer who had the part in stock were contacted and all dealer who had ever sold a pair were contacted. I can provide 4 such examples THIS WEEK of similar things that have quietly taken place behind the scenes that have likely made customers for life. I want people who LOVE Buells out telling other people how frickin' incredible their ownership experience is and sending folks to dealers, not away from them as is happening now. That is impossible for Honda, Ferrari or Chevrolet to do. Buell is in position to design and implement a dealer directed program that would provide customer satisfaction and loyalty on a scale never imagined. It will involve rerouting some of the reporting lines on a chart or two, but the pieces are all there now, at Buell, at HD and at the dealerships...it's like Dorothy not knowing all she had to do was to click the heels of those red shoes. Anyway.....there are about 150 more pages (including the famous 3 Dave Gess wrote in 1997) to the plan. I see an incredible future for Buell. Cool beans! P.S. - That's just my personal opinion and after all I'm just an"ego driven groupie". | ||
| Court |
>>>>Ride more, post less. By the way Grimel, it appears I may be taking your advise. I see a good deal of riding in the not to distant future. | ||
| Road_thing |
>>>>Ride more, post less. ...and use your own login!  rt | ||
| Daves |
Court, When that gathering happens can you get me a seat? I'd like to sit in on that one. | ||
| Davegess |
<Court, When that gathering happens can you get me a seat? I'd like to sit in on that one.> ME TOO | ||
| Whodom |
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| Bomber |
it'll be a gathering of note, for sure! I look forward to Buell, and it's customers, reaping the benefits therefrom! Court -- you ain't NEAR cute enough to be a groupie -- the groper, perhaps | ||
| Xgecko |
I find it funny that people make the distinction between Lexus/Scion/Toyota and the other Japanese automakers who use these marketing ploys to sell americans cars. Unlike Buell/HD there is no difference at the mother company between Lexus/Scion/Toyota as a matter of fact Lexus and Scion don't exist in Japan it's all Toyota | ||
| Reddog3624 |
And it should be ALL Harley Davidson. Is Buell not owned by HD? Why is it many HD shops don't carry Buells, their parts, or refuse to work on Buells? I think HD should take a lesson from Toyota. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I remember being at the races at Barber last year, we had our voltage regulator go out. Henry Duga came by and said he had one with him, just come over and get it when we got the bad one out. It struck me that no one racing for any other manufacturer got this kind of support from the factory outside of the top shelf full time professionals. Henry is a great guy and just one example of the family atmosphere that Buell has. Then, at homecoming this year, I broke the headlight bezel on my bike in a tip-over that morning. When we rolled into the parking lot at the factory one of the guys asked me what happened. I explained and he said he'd do what he could to help me. A bit later he returned with a complete low beam housing, and the frame it mounts to (with relays). I asked how much it was going to cost and pulled out my wallet. He said "just fix your bike, these parts came off of a bike that got returned" I was stunned to say the least. I for one fear the day that Buell out-grows the ability to sustain this kind of atmosphere, however I really want them to grow and realize their full potential. (and hire ME ) | ||
| Court |
>>>>I for one fear the day that Buell out-grows the ability to sustain this kind of atmosphere, Won't happen.....that I can promise you. By the way....you want me to tell Henry you were inferring he was NOT a "top shelf full time professionals". I don't think so . . . the guy is incredible, eh? | ||
| Josh_cox |
Court, I would like to be involved in that meeting if any way possible also. Speaking of Henry and most of the "big names" from Buell, they will talk to you just like any regular person. Great people to talk to anytime, and very helpful when you need something. | ||
| Grimel |
>>>>Ride more, post less. By the way Grimel, it appears I may be taking your advise. I see a good deal of riding in the not to distant future. Ride some for me. I'm nursing a tweaked ankle. Not riding for a few days isn't improving my disposition. Here I am hobbling on crutches and I start a new job Monday. |
