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Toona
| | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 04:13 pm: | 
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3/4 vs. full face
My wife crashed at 35 mph w/ a full face on and still broke her jaw (amongst many other injuries). The Doc's at the hospital said she would likely be dead if she was wearing a 3/4 or half shell. Yes, that helmet got "retired". |
Lions
| | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 05:26 pm: |
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1. Make sure you got clean undies
2. Be sure to strap your sandals all the way
3. Tank Top should be bright in color
4. Keep I-Pod at somewhat medium volume
5. Yellow light means Hurry the fack up b4 it turns red
6. Shorts must never be worn in 60 or below temps
and last, but not least
7. Make sure butt is out before closing your lid! |
Grimel
| | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
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However, I've heard that if you fall and hit your chin you will most likely die,
Crap. If you hit exactly on your chin such that your body can use the helmet as a fulcrum you stand a good chance of dying. A FF give a bit of slip the 3/4 wouldn't have.
In general you don't die smacking on the chin.
Question ... is the full face helmet really safer than the 3/4 helmet? Seems like my 3/4 helmet is safer because I have more visibility.
Do you REALLY have better vision OR are you assuming because you can see more in the lower quadrant that you have more side/rear vision? Further, do you really depend on your peripherial vision or do you swivil your head?
I have a 1in scar on my chin (looks like a rune S) that took 75 stitches (inside and outside) to close the hole. Wanna guess how often I don't wear FF? |
Eboos
| | Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 10:26 pm: |
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According to the Hurt report, about 60% of helmet impacts occur in the chin/jaw area. That pretty much sums it up. |
Vonsliek
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 02:22 am: |
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god dang!
i got the rossi rep ti-tech agv for the looks & appointments it has .. & damn me if it isn't 8000 x the helmet my kbc, hjc & other kbc vr2 are ..
WORTH the $$$ .. quieter, very little air makes it thru visor/under chin .. entire face is heavily padded & protected .. its confidence inspiring alone is worth the near $600 ...
i hit my chin in last kbc vr2 on forst day of ownership .. doing a ••••••• wheelie that made me do the *space shuttle* .. i hit HARD .. chin first! suspected broke neck & humungous concussion .. neck still not right .. but i learnt not to gas up & clutch a wheelie.
never 3/4 once u hit yer head a few times (me 3 times in last yr) u'll appreciate fullface.
i've seen photos of chin/jaw area after a crash w/ half hat .. u pretty much get the 12 guage to chin look .. if u survive.
silly hat for silly ppl.
also, never felt restricted vision in fullface .. just have to fit right (tighter than u think) & get off yr ass & look around if u can't see!  |
Roc
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 02:55 am: |
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I hit a medium sized bird about where my nose / upper lip is around 65 mph - full face helmet = it was still a good day riding.
Ride your own ride, always. If you have suprises when riding then considder yourself warned. Most people think of this in terms of speed, fatigue is a big deal too.
Watch out for new guys. If you are ridding with them then keep an eye on them. Don't let them feel hurried.
Why is that car in front of me slowing down? Car in front of rider is going slow, rider goes to pass, rider is hit by a second car - in front of slow car - turning left. These circumstance killed a very skilled and beloved safety instructor in Oregon, and caused a serious accident for a riding buddies riding buddy this summer. Same goes for the no signal slow down car and the guy in the car that swings wide - like he has a trailer - before going into his driveway, kind of a fake out. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 01:46 pm: |
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Paul, what head shape fits the AGV?
Round oval or intermediate? |
Omahastylee
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 02:49 pm: |
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ride with brights on (visibility)
look where you are going on turns
keep your distance |
Kurosawa
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 03:42 pm: |
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30 years ago I rode 1200 miles in one shot and back again in one shot, no incident. Got back and went to get coffee with a friend, got smacked head-on by a drunk in a station wagon who crossed from the far side of a 4-laner to nail me.
Later I asked a wise old biker why I couldn't get away from the drunk. He asked "Were you looking at him?" I said "Yeah." He said "You go wherever your head and eyes are pointed. So next time you don't want to hit something, look at anything else, the stripe on the side of the road, whatever, just don't fix on the thing you don't want to hit."
Needless to say, this was way before the "Ride Like a Pro IV" DVD came out. |
Buell
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 04:00 pm: |
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You know, I think that there is only so much that you can be told - others you just have to learn - all of the advice given has been great, but above all it is so important to keep your head when in a situation. There are thousands of ways to go down, but make sure you are taking the neccessary precautions every time you get on that bike. I know it is hard to deal with the pain and embarrassment, not to mention a dented pride (I just totalled my 3 day old X1 when I grabbed the brakes in a sandy corner, and I have been riding for about 6 years with no problems) but sometimes you have to count yourself lucky that you are still alive and can use the newly gained wisdom for the next time you ride. Whether you are new or not at riding, it is a risky sport, so you can't ever get complacent.
Oh - and jeans definately don't offer any protection whatsoever - that's one of those that I had to learn the hard way - belive me, the worst pain I have ever been in my life was when I had to have my rash scrubbed over and over - morphine does not mask the pain and I think that the medical staff gets a kick out of it (at least that is how I felt!)
Take care, and ride safe! |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 04:17 pm: |
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Better to lean over more and risk a lowside than run off the road. Chances are you are no where near the limit of lean angle or traction. Track days are wonderful for learning the limits of one's motorcycle. |
Vonsliek
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:27 pm: |
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hell yeah blake ..
my knee is my 3rd wheel!
u still burn off the chicken strip, but u get the satisfaction of burning up the knee slider AND feeling like a hero .. not to mention, if u can get yer knee down while hanging a little off & still not get close to losing it.........
diablobrian .. agv fits my flat-backed SQUARE head & rossi's weak-chinned egghead, so i guess they fit most heads.
word of caution .. they are a little on the small side (due to amt of facial padding inside, esp. cheeks - *race fit*, they call it) .. i have MED KBC VR2, SML HJC AC-12 & ML AGV Ti-Tech .. agv is WAY superior tho. |
Crashm1
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 01:53 am: |
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I'm with Blake and Von track time will teach you just how far from the bikes limits you are on the street.
That was my second track day. By the way on an X1 at least Dunlop Qualifiers rock. I still have like 3/16th of an inch of chickenstrips on my rear tire after a day of absolutely abusing my poor bike. |
Vonsliek
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 03:11 am: |
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this is the other side of what crashm1 was saying .. can't wait till i get better at this stuff .. its so exciting & satisfying ..
fack the roads & canyons .. the more i hear ppl enthuse abt them & know they haven't tasted the track .. the more i feel disassociated from them & sad for them.
call me elitist .. but i'd rather get banged up on track - & i have! woo hoo! |
44mag2
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:03 pm: |
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Ok ... Good advice about the 3/4 vs. full face helmet. I will use my FF more often. I do have better vision in the 3/4, but maybe it is just my brand.
Question: What about those modular FF helmets where the face folds up?
Like this???
Are they any good? Safe? Can you ride with the face up? |
Lpowel02
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:38 pm: |
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word of caution .. they are a little on the small side (due to amt of facial padding inside, esp. cheeks
he ain't kiddin...my Arai is a large, but the AGV Ti-Tech I just bought is an XXL
It's super snug and comfy when on, but it's tougher to get on too....great helmet tho...love it |
Lpowel02
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 09:13 am: |
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...as for what wisdom I can pass on...
I'm with the ATGATT crew...I have a scar on my foot now from not wearing my boots when I should have...had a low speed, minor lowside - no big deal really - but a scar that could easily have been avoided nonetheless |
Grimel
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 04:05 pm: |
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Are they any good? Safe? Can you ride with the face up?
Yes, they are good. My dad has the HJC Sy-Max. Are they safe? Yes, IF you make sure the bar latches properly. Ride with the face up? At low speed, you are making a BIG sail to act as a lever on your head and makes it an awkward 3/4. The shield up is plenty of air. |
44mag2
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 05:02 pm: |
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Ride with the face up? At low speed, you are making a BIG sail to act as a lever on your head and makes it an awkward 3/4. The shield up is plenty of air.
Sounds like a normal full face helmet would make more sense if you can't really ride with the face up. Any advantages of the modular over the FF?
} |
Grimel
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 07:31 pm: |
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Any advantages of the modular over the FF?
You can put your helmet on without removing your glasses. At low speed you can eat/drink/smoke with the face up (say intown commuting). |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 08:02 pm: |
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Eating while riding sounds like a scary trick.
For drinking get a Camelback or similar. they work fine with a full face.
I'd say wait and smoke off the bike.
The need for glasses, or for LEO's to interface with the public is the only legitimate
use for the flip face helmet. None of them have been submitted for snell testing for
a good reason. The manufacturers do not believe that the Flip helmets can pass. the DOT
rating is an honor system thing. Snell requires actual testing. It's an important little
difference in my book.
There is no equal substitute for a full face helmet. |
Grimel
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 09:17 pm: |
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They haven't been submitted for SNELL testing because SNELL has no standard for the flip face and the flip face won't pass a full face test.
Can't put the morning coffee in a camel back. Same for smoking. Even eating. Because YOU don't think it's okay doesn't make it a non-legit reason to use a flip face. |
Fl_a1a
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 11:29 pm: |
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I have the schubert c2 which is a flip up.
It is one of the quietest helmets measured. I think when it closes it is more snug around the neck and that eliminates noise. It is also good if you just want to hop in the gas station for 1 or 2 items and don't want to take off the helmet since you can flip it up when you walk into the store.
I've worn my full face into a store to pay for gas and was told not to walk in the store with the full face on for security reasons by the clerk.
Peaple agianst flip ups say the hinge is the weak link, that the pin in the hinge could be driven into your scull if you fell just right.
For me helmets are like shirts. You have a long sleave, short sleave, t-shirt. The all have a purpose and depending on the activity you choose. If the helmet is good for some aspect you suffer for it another way (heat, noise, overall protection). So if you ride daily it is hard not to have one of each and be comfy.
(Message edited by Fl_a1a on August 16, 2006) |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 11:32 pm: |
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Never said it wasn't a reason, I gave it as my opinion. Not a set in stone fact.
After having a full face helmet save my life I guess I have tougher standards for
my helmets than some do. That is their choice, but I don't have to think it's a
good choice.
I was one of the ATGATT believers before that crash or I would not be alive today.
That is fact not conjecture. All of the injuries I had were internal after being
hit head-on by an 18 year old driver from a "blind" driveway on a 45mph road.
Snell does not see the need to establish a lesser standard for the flip-up helmets,
just as they have no open face helmet standards. That's their choice to make, It's
their reputation on the line. At least that's the gist of what they said to one of
the magazines in answer to questions about this problem. |
Vonsliek
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 02:26 am: |
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wasn't the flip helmet created in part for european motosickle couriers?? ease of indentity/lack of intimidation when in office confines & speeds up general m/c courier activities, hence mo $$$??!!
that is MY reading of the practical application of said design in the REAL world.
me .. NO WAY i'd go open of 3/4 or beanie or whatever, after going to sportbikes from hd chopper ..
& to think i blasted over 90mph (ooh, so fast pauly) on freeways in az, last time i was there, lidless .. jst to *taste* the american biker dream .. ooh, bad boy pauly .. total badass ... asshead, morelike! ;P |
Damnut
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 03:53 pm: |
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I ride with a modular and love it. There was a sale when buying some parts at the local HD shop. It's the Stealth Flame Modular Helmet. Every morning I go into the same corner store to buy an energy drink and I can just flip it up and walk in. Same with sitting in traffic.
Oh and having it flipped up while riding?? I do it but I wouldn't suggest it over 35 MPH. It does act like a big sail over 35.
The main reason I like it is I can chat with the ladies while at red lights or while stuck in rush hour traffic. |
Grimel
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 05:22 pm: |
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E5. Chin Bar Test
The chin bar test applies to full face helmets only. At least one helmet in each certification series shall be tested. The helmet shall be firmly mounted on a rigid base so that the chin bar faces up and the reference plane is at 65 ±5° from horizontal
Hmmm, that implies open faced helmets can be SNELL. Amazingly the Shoei J-Wing is a SNELL rated open face. SNELL has always rated open face. |
Irideabuell
| | Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 05:25 pm: |
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While we're on the topic....I witnessed a Squid the other night with no helmet, flip flops, shorts and a t-shirt making an illegal u-turn while talking on his cell phone.
Here's your sign!!!! |
Mesafirebolt
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 09:43 am: |
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I was fully geared up, Suffered a broken metatarsal on my left hand and a few bruised, nuff said. I agree, I was no where NEAR the bikes lean capabilities but I chickened out because of cactus, gravel, trees etc and pulled up. Brakes dont work off road but the tires would have held up on the corner I have no doubt. Some track time would have been Most helpful. My words, dont pull up, lean the bike over, she WILL do it. the question is can you? |
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