G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Motorcycle Forum » XBoard » Buell XBoard Archives » Archive through August 07, 2006 » Dot and Snell « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lbcalex
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

This is a question for us people in the states. Are snell approved helmets legal to wear in the states also which one is better or are they basically the same dot or snell?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eboos
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes, Snell helmets are also DOT approved. There is some debate as to which is better, due to the hardness of the impact foam in a Snell rated helmet. The summary is, you are not likely to sustain the types of impacts that Snell helmets are rated for, so on a lower velocity crash you may sustain more injury from the foam not collapsing easily enough.

Motorcyclist magazine did an artical on this last spring. There was a link to it in a recent thread here.

Edit: links added
Motorcyclist story: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/

Snell's response: http://www.smf.org/response.html

(Message edited by eboos on August 06, 2006)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Steve_mackay
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

To pass a Snell foundation test, the helmet is subjected to some very high energy impacts. Helmet manufacturers must make their helmets stuffer to pass a Snell foundation test. The stiffer the helmet, the more G forces get passed to your noggin.

The hardest Snell test for a motorcycle helmet to meet is the two-strike test. The helmet is subjected to a 150 joule drop on to a stainless steel ball about the size of an orange. The is similar to dropping an 11 pound weight from about 10 feet. Some seriously high energy impact. The next hit, on the exact same spot is set to 110 joules, or about an 8 foot drop. To pass, the helmet can't transmit more than 300 Gs to the inside of the helmet in either hit. So, really, in my opinion, the Snell test has transformed in to a marketing gimmick. DOT ONLY helmets are generally softer, and transmit less energy to your noggin. But they can't take a hit in the same spot, more than once.

I've never seen a Snell rated helmet that isn't DOT approved as well.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lbcalex
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 10:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

how about the ones from japan that are snell only no dot?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eboos
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I may be wrong, but if it is not DOT certified, you can not use it in the US.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rr_eater
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 01:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Eboos is correct there, sort of....

Most enforcement agencies (cops) see SNELL as a superior rating to DOT (in my experiences). A such, they will look over the lack of a DOT sticker, though they should not.

DOT rated melon cages are mandatory in states requiring their use, so there is a bit of a rating disparity here....

I have see both with and with out the other rating, Hell my X11 only says SNELL, no DOT approval, and it has been "inspected" by both local authorities and base police, so....

Bruce
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skyguy
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 02:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I went with a Euro helmet that only has DOT. That article in motorcyclist got me to thinking Snell is to much for a skinny guy with a light head................
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jlnance
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Are snell approved helmets legal to wear in the states also which one is better or are they basically the same dot or snell?

DOT is department of transportation, the govt agency. For states like NC, which require you to wear a helmet, this is the agency that certifies it as an acceptable helmet. For states which do not mandate helmet use, I wouldn't think the certification would matter.

SNELL is a not-for-profit company which exists to promote helmet safety. They have their roots in racing helmets, but have branched out to other types of helmets over the years.

Helmets marketed for use only in other countries have no need for DOT certification. They will be certified by the some govt agency where they are intended to be sold.

All racetracks that I know of require SNELL helmets.

As you saw mentioned above with respect to the stiffness of the foam, there is some debate as to what makes a helmet good. It is difficult to answer this, because we can't put healthy people in helmets, bang on their heads, and see if they survive.

That being said, SNELL standards are more stringent than DOT. The DOT standards are what people must wear. They are political compromises amongst people with different agendas, including people who don't want to wear helmets at all. Thats why you can get a DOT half helmet. SNELL standards are written for people who actually want to be wearing a helmet and expect it to work.

I would reccomend SNELL approved helmets. Helmets are a very competetive business, so keeping costs down is important. It's not possible for a consumer to look at a helmet and know how safe it is. The only clue they get is the certification. So manufacturers can not justify going beyond the certification if it makes the helmet cost more. The certification keeps people from trimming a millimeter off the foam to save $.20 per helmet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Wes12185
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 09:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Also, DOT requires only the the company say that the helmet meets the requirements, it doesn't do any testing. I'm sure if in retrospect the helmet was terrible they'd get in trouble, but no good if you already crashed your untested DOT helmet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Grimel
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Until DOT requires more than the maker saying it meets the req's the DOT sticker is a bad joke. IIRC, SNELL buys off the shelf helmets at random spots to recheck approved helmets.

I've walked away from many a low speed impact with a SNELL approved helmet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pwnzor
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

DOT stickers are applied to helmets at the factory with NO inspection or approval from the United States Department of Transportation. USDOT neither certifies nor tests any helmets. The "DOT rating" is a set of guidelines established by the independent agencies and approved by the USDOT. It is the guidelines which the DOT approves, not the helmets themselves.

Regardless of these facts, the DOT sticker rating is requred for all helmets used on public highways in the USA.

Funny thing, in states where no helmet is required, you can still get a ticket for a "non-DOT" helmet.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jlnance
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Funny thing, in states where no helmet is required, you can still get a ticket for a "non-DOT" helmet.

Our governments can be beyond stupid sometimes.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Grimel
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

only sometimes? I'm more suprized when they do something relatively smart than when they do something like giving a non-DOT helmet ticket in a no helmet state.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diablobrian
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't forget you can always buy a DOT sticker from ebay for your lid that exceeds DOT specs, after all people put them
on their brain buckets to avoid tickets. Most cops do not really give full face helmets a second look in regards to DOT stickers,
That's usually something they hit the guys with the minimal (yarmulke) skid lids.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pwnzor
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

BUY a sticker??? That's a good one. Aren't we all using COMPUTERS here????

We disagree on the spelling of Yarmulkah but we agree that that type of helmet is the target of those tickets.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diablobrian
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 03:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My computer won't cut vinyl letters for me. I certainly wish it would.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Teddagreek
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

DOT Rating is a Joke....

Shame on US that there is no STRICT standards such as CE and BSI...

What kills me there are actually people that think that a half helmet is all you need..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Skyguy
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My non snell helmet is one of the best helmets made out of italy. Hard to argue with the numbers posted by the mag.............
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lbcalex
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 06:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

thanks for the info guys bought a helmet with the snell rating can't wait to get it. my old helmet has seen better days.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eboos
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"What kills me there are actually people that think that a half helmet is all you need."

Ever notice that all motorcycle police wear 3/4 helmets, and no leathers? Wouldn't that be setting more of an example if they were wearing something like a modular fullface, and a proper suit?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Grimel
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Look at the European motorcops.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eboos
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 09:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Never seen them.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Grimel
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

here is a link

http://www.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/02032004135430MIKH66.htm

Here is the BMW police site.

http://www.bmw-motorrad-authorities.com/authorities/en/index.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mdm
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

google search, tada



Seriously, when I lived in Norway *everyone* wore full leathers and the cops drove bikes in the snow ! The kids drove scooters, in the winter, tripod style around icy corners.

I think there was some kind of insurance discount with full leather ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eboos
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is there just something in the mentality of the average American that causes us to ignore what we know is the right thing?

(I hope I didn't come across as a little too far to the left)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Grimel
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It is very simple. In the US we don't consider motorcycles as real transportation. They are treated like toys.
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration