| Author | Message | ||
     M2nc |
Buellgrrrl - I am not one to discourage discussion so rant away. I hate the fact that you have had problems but from what I have read, your case is unusual. Harley motors old and new do not usually let go at 45,000 miles. My M2 has 44,000 miles and it runs quieter than the Uly. Glitch has 45,000 miles on his and rides every week. 1313 ran his S2 with me to Wisconsin last year passed 100,000 miles. So it is not a common issue and I hope that the next four years it repays you for the problems in the past with smiles, not grimace. One correction though, when the XB came out it was only available with a new motor the 984cc. The motor was designed by Harley for the XB. The 1203cc was not put in the XB until it was revamped for the 2004 model year. | ||
| Buellfighter |
Gosh Buellgrrrl, I sure hate to read about your constant misery involving you and your lemon flavored Buell, your constant bickering about parts availability and crappy service. It's obvious that you enjoy your misery and I look forward to your miserable posts for the remainder of your miserable Buell ownership or until your 10 years is up, whichever comes first. Misery loves company and we're here for you! | ||
| Dbird29 |
At least DYNA had the good sense to get banned so we didn't have to keep hearing about "the problems". Maybe Buelgrllllllll can make a chopper or something to make his/herself happy. | ||
| Diablobrian |
I understand, I buy my vehicles cash too. I'm not suggesting you buy a new vehicle every time you're unhappy. However you've made it quite clear that you are not only unhappy with your M2, but also with your dealership, and with Buell in general. I just don't see where you'll benefit from another 4 years of misery. You've made it clear that you won't be happy short of Buell buying your bike back for what you paid for it, and that's not going to happen. So how do you expect things to get better with a bike you distrust, and a dealer and company you dislike in the next 4 years? That's what puzzles me, the tenacious grip you have on something that you obviously despise. I had an epiphany a couple of years ago while lying in a hospital bed with a shattered pelvis. Life is too short to waste being needlessly unhappy. I understand tight finances. Being on disabilty with three kids while I go back to college to make myself viable in the workplace is no picnic. But money is not a substitute for happiness. Please enlighten me. BTW I currently own an RV, 2 cars, a 4 wheeler, and my Buell, all bought cash on the barrel head. | ||
| Tunes |
My 2 Buells are very reliable... aside from the usual wear-and-tear of parts and consumables, no probs. 21K - '99 S3 / 8K - '04 XB12s | ||
| Diablobrian |
My Uncle has a 2000(?) m2 also so I'm familiar with the differences having seen them together. The only real issue he's had is with wanting a shifter with less slop in it. He recently fixed this with aftermarket parts. Until recently I'd heard that M2's were the most reliable pre-XB Buells. That's one of the reasons I've been interested in Buellgrrrl's saga. However I have little time for people that choose to wallow in misery rather than take positive action. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Diablobrian, taking a major hit on depreciation by dumping the bike because the Motor Company made a lemon and refuses to remedy their mistake is not "positive action". Holding the Motor Company responsible for their mistakes is positive action. Remember the Motor Company executive that literally called us Tuber buyers "suckers"? Well, said executive misjudged this one... | ||
| Diablobrian |
So keeping the bike is a positive action even though you despise the bike and the company?  I'm trying to understand it, but the depreciation will not be less in 4 years, and the offset for this, usually the pleasure derived from owning/riding the bike, seems to be non-existant. If you really feel it is a lemon I just don't get why you'd want to keep it. By definition a lemon is a money pit. You gain nothing monetarily by keeping it for a longer period of time. You should actually lose money on upkeep and repair of a lemon. So I don't see the "hit on depreciation" I see not throwing good money after bad, were I looking from your perspective. Do you see what I mean? I've bought a lemon before, and took a loss on the short term to avoid a loss on the long term. I guess that's taking a longer range view of things. I don't expect the world to end tomorrow, so I'm playing the long game. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
But this lemon is still covered for a couple more years under HDI's extended warranty... so it's their problem too, and HDI is bearing most of the cost of it's unreliability. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Never mind, I was trying to have a logical discussion, but I can see emotion is still a driving force here.  Even if they bear most of the cost there is still a cost to be borne, not to mention the inconvenience of the bike being in the shop for prolonged periods each year, if it is a lemon, or being stranded in the middle of nowhere. Of course, I wasn't taking into account the license to complain you obviously feel has been granted to you, so I missed a large part of the value of owning the bike. Like I said I have little time for those that choose to wallow in misery, and I hear the alarm clock ringing. | ||
| Court |
>>>> HDI's extended warranty Just to be clear, HDI offers no extended warranty and has nothing to do with them. Extended warranties are "accessory" 3rd party insurance contracts sold through various HD dealers just like chrome. Typically they have huge mark-ups and cover about 1/8th of what you think they do. Just so ya'll know, they, back in 1998, wouldn't even provide HD a list of what they DID cover. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Come on Court, Don't take the fun out of it for her. She wants to hate HDI, not some 3rd party insurance agency. I suppose she is probably inflicting some level of punishment at the dealer level. Jack | ||
| Diablobrian |
Ok, so the logic unravels even further than I had thought. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Sorry Court and company, but I have the extended warranty sold by HDI's wholely owned finance company. And it's already cost them more than I paid for that extended warranty! HDI might be smart to do like Apple did with a lemon laptop a few years ago- offer a hefty trade in allowance to get the lemons out of owners hands and end the out of control AppleCare claims. Offering a minimum of half original MSRP for tubers in trade on a new HDI product might do wonders to lower warranty costs and increase customer satisfaction... Assuming the new HDI products are any more reliable? | ||
| Curtyd |
Hate to break the NEWS but the M2's aren't worth jack**** on trade-in, neither really is my XB9S. No bike is worth any more than half value when you drive it off the showroom. My M2, that was not a lemon, got less than 3K on trade, but it did have 30 to 40K mostly trouble-free miles. It's a RV vehicle not an investment. If you aren't having FUN on it you really are just flushing your $$ down the toilet. Nobody told you that? You actually "thought" motorcycles were an INVESTMENT, tsk, tsk..  | ||
| Brucelee |
"Diablobrian, taking a major hit on depreciation by dumping the bike because the Motor Company made a lemon and refuses to remedy their mistake is not "positive action". Holding the Motor Company responsible for their mistakes is positive action" So, how is this strategy working for you so far? | ||
| Brucelee |
"Don't take the fun out of it for her. She wants to hate HDI, not some 3rd party insurance agency. I suppose she is probably inflicting some level of punishment at the dealer level." Professionals call this "secondary gain!" Don't try to talk her out of it, she is committed to it! | ||
| Brucelee |
Motorcycles as an investment. Now there is an amusing thought! Now, someone will write in and tell me how they once made $$$$$$$$$$ when they sold there 1999 hupmobile! | ||
| Curtyd |
P.S. Does anyone THINK that computers are any kind of an example for trade-in, customer service and resale? Those damn things are OBSOLETE the day you buy them, APPLE/MACs included. Their warranties are barely 90 days for actual customer service, a year on parts. I have a collection of them that I paid 1 to 2K for that aren't worth a hundred bucks. Go somewhere else please for an example of reliability and customer service, PLEEEZZ | ||
| Curtyd |
Here is a laugh, Buellgirlie sure got Buellgrrrl's NUMBER exactly dead-on right when she started her original complaints back on June 19, 2006, here's the quote, "i have bad visions of you posting a complaint every week til 2010, when you'll have a huge bonfire to destroy your buell........... " Buellgirlie. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/4062/207245.html (Message edited by CURTYD on July 31, 2006) | ||
| Court |
I just kept a vehicle for 10 years, first time ever. It was a Ford F-250. I loved it and hated to get rid of it. I learned several lessons. There is no better vehicle than one that's paid for. I watched with envy over the 7 years I owned the truck and the loan had been paid, as friends drove new shiny stuff. If hurt only until the 23rd of the month, the day on which I'd made the $697 payments. Cash is king. Leasing ALWAYS sucks. Period, end of story....with the caveat that there are times it makes sense for business. I'd, for instance, never own a business computer, copier or scanner. Number don't work. Don't ask, I used to BUY everything in my own company from IBM Selectrics to the Piper Saratoga. I was wrong. There are reasons that leasing companies dump stuff at 70,000 and 130,000 miles. Maintenence costs rise sharply, far outweighing new pruchase costs at these milestones. I don't care if it's a Rolls-Royce or a Hyundai. Maintenance is a fuuny thing. Each and every year my truck went in and had all the fluids (brake, auto trans, power steering, etc) drained, systems flushed and refilled. It had Mobil 1 at 3K intervals from day one. You get the picture. The last year I had it I put about 7K in it for a host of "little things". Nothing lasts forever. But, the point is no matter how often you change your oil, how meticulous you are about maintaining it and so forth the ONLY way you will benefit is by strectching the time YOU own it; you do NOTHING for the resale. When I took my truck in, it looked basically new from 100' away. I took by $2,000 and went away happy. What taking care of it bought me was 6 years, I tried to stretch it one year too far. Vehicles GENERALLY make very poor investments. Microsoft and Harley-Davidson common stock have done better than any vehicle and they don't rust. My partner (and fellow Buell owner) had a proclivity for collecting Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gull Wings...they, along with my XLCR and XR-1000 are rare exceptions. No one backs into common stock in a parking lot. Motorcycle in the United States, stop smelling your Birkenstocks and deal with reality, ARE RECREATIONAL VEHCILES and have nearly zero utility. This is a broad statement that a 2nd grader, like my riding partner who rides to work EVERY 365 DAY, could shoot down but generally we don't use motorcycles like the Europeans. Bottom line is that if you not not tickled pink and enjoying the heck out of a motorcycle, you'd be wise to get rid of it at any cost to salvage your sanity. Spend your days, in the short time we're here, moping about surly and hoping to extract social justice by wringing out an extended warranty, to me, looks about as fun as chewing a ball of steel wool. Court | ||
| Spatten1 |
"Bottom line is that if you not not tickled pink and enjoying the heck out of a motorcycle, you'd be wise to get rid of it at any cost to salvage your sanity." Yeah, rules like the 10-year ownership are great and make sense, but you only live once. You can't always make the best fiscal decision if it means 5 years of misery. By the time you retire you will not remember the lost depreciation. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Well, if HDI actually fixes or relieves me of my Buell you won't hear a complaint from me ever. If HDI customer "service" stays as is, you may hear less of me as the Buell is replaced by a competing brand in 2010 and pushed to the back of my garage and given "reserve spare" status in case all 3 or more BMWs are down. As for computers, Apple's service is better than most, but I still gave 'em hell when my Pismo slowly lost conciousness after the 3 year Applecare warranty ran out. I expect to get 5 years use out of expensive electronics and that Pismo was dragged, kicking and screaming, through 5 years computing. I got some satisfaction though by costing Apple several laptop sales... Meanwhile, my '83 R80ST, '84 R65LS, '92 R100GS, '84 TenTec Argosy, '90 FT290, '84 02AT, '97 AMiTY, and a bunch of other "obsolete" stuff just "keep on tickin'". Good vehicles should have a useful life of at least 10 years, and at half that age my Buell is already headed to the back of my garage. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Court, I do ride my motorcycles, and can show with facts and figures that my motorcycles are costing less to run than any of my 4 wheelers. The grins while riding are a fringe benefit... | ||
| Glitch |
At least DYNA had the good sense to get banned so we didn't have to keep hearing about "the problems".  DYNAGRRRL! | ||
| Eor |
I wonder how many others here know what a Ten Tec Argosy, FT290, and 02AT are?  Gotta hand it to 'ya grrrl...no one's peed in the Koolaid here this much since Dyna's heyday.  | ||
| Court |
I guess, having a Motorola MaraTrac in the car, I'd never know about broken radios. I think I'm seeing the problem. Try buying your radios from folks who have a Baldrige Award (Motorola) and your bikes from an ISO Certified firm....gosh....but there's only one!. . . . drats...stuck with that stinker Buell!  | ||
| Jlnance |
Ten Tec Argosy, FT290, and 02AT are? I toured the Ten Tec "Factory" in Tenn, back in the days when I owned an Omni IV.  | ||
| Jlnance |
Court - If I may backtrack a few days to your post about Buell warranty $$ / per unit manufactured. I agree with the spirit of your post, but I would like to point out that that metric is a lot more important to manufacturers than consumers. Warranty $$ for a blown up tranmission is a lot different than those for a broken fan. But the effect on the owner is the same. He is walking until it gets fixed. | ||
| Court |
>>>but I would like to point out that that metric is a lot more important to manufacturers than consumers. Exactly the reason manufacturers track the information and don't waste consumers time with it....it tells a consumer nothing, tells a manufacturer a great deal. |
