| Author | Message | ||
     Snackbar64 |
This may sound crazy, but could Buell actually leave HD and still be functional under any circumstance? What do you guys think about an American Auto Maker such as GM purchasing Buell from HD? Since it seems that dealer support for the brand is becoming more scarce each passing year. GM has its problems, but they are performance oriented and it would be a nice add on for them to be able to compete with Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. Why haven't they gotten into the motorcycle game by now anyways? Look, the new XB models are great and innovative, but often get pushed into the corner of the dealerships. You often have to ask if the bikes are even for sale. GM could put the bikes on the show room floors of Chevrolet and Pontiac Dealerships. The Firebolt could be marketed as a Chevy and the Lightning and Ulysses as Pontiacs. Chevrolet gets a huge amount of young and old buyers who are not predetermined to buy a traditional Harley and will actually give the bikes a serious look over. Aren't there enough Americans that would like to have an american bike strapped down to the bed of their Silverado? Just as we all bought our bikes to get away from the Japanese replica racer stigma. There must be people who want a serious american bike to keep up with the Japanese in all aspects of performance rather it be carving corners or threatening the land speed record. GM has the capitol to invest in such performance. Look at the up and coming Camaro and the already available Corvette, which is capable of walking down a high performance liter bike at 186 mph. They would appreciate Buell. How far fetched is this? any ideas? | ||
| Cochise |
Pretty far fetched, I am pretty sure. | ||
| Ronlv |
the relationship with hd is what attracted me to buell i wanted a hd that had a sportbike riding postion and wheelbase (like roland sands designs) i dont like choppers, but i wanted a hd if gm owned it i wouldnt have looked at it i think what would help buell is that they be hd firebolts and hd lightning etc then maybe hd will embrase them and give them the respect they deserve | ||
| Spiderman |
How 'bout BadWeb buy Buell. We can all be majority owners LMAO I would rather GM not buy Buell, they are not doing too well right now and there main focus needs to be on cars and how to NOT outsource any more jobs... | ||
| Cochise |
I really don't think calling a bike an H-D is gonna make it sell any better. A second cousin is a second cousin no matter what the last name. | ||
| Tbowdre |
harley is the worst and the best part of buell. Worst in performance, dealership support, image of company (slow cruisers for fat guys with gray hair) value of product (paying for ancient technology), marketing crap for motorcycles like bandanas and t shirts and not knowing about the products they sell. Best for Buell with needed huge network, very easily available and obtainable parts, also amrican made (hardcore) capitol for buell to research and develop new technologies. I think we're stuck. What we need are more Harley dealerships with individuals like Daves that support Buell... but who knows. most likely is a lack or demand .02 | ||
| Snackbar64 |
I don't know, I think if they were introduced as Harleys from day one it would be a different story with sales and perception as well as funding for R/D. | ||
| Beachbuell |
In one simple word....... NO! That motor inside the Buell frame is trademark of HD and I do not think the Motor Company would allow Buell to break from the MoCo and still use the HD motor. Not to mention all the engineering and time spent on research / development. GM makes automobiles not motorcycles, that is a scary thought in itself. Not gonna happen. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Beachbuell The structure and technology is there and GM could piggy back off of it from the likes of Ducati, or develop their own V-Twin engine. They don't have to reinvent the wheel. | ||
| Court |
Watch carefully what is going to happen over the next 7 years. | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Court, I don't understand. Come again please. | ||
| Cochise |
He means big things are on the way, and no, it doesn't involve GM. | ||
| Fireflyer |
What's on the way? 'Stand alone' Buell dealerships? New non-HD (Buell's own design) powered bikes? I might not make it 7 years?!  (Message edited by fireflyer on July 29, 2006) | ||
| Tbowdre |
Court!!! tell us what you think or know! | ||
| Percyco |
Maybe when hell freezes over,I am like many others....bought a Buell to own a H-D powered streetfighter type bike. No H-D/Buell, no more Buell purchases at my house (plain and simple). Nobody is buying Buell from H-D,maybe they will drop the line like GM did to Oldsmobile. Then turn the Troy plant into a saddlebag stud and roller buckle facility. Buell is still a very young company.....keep yer shirt on !  | ||
| Xb12rdude |
I would love GM to purchase Buell. There may be a few folks that buy Buell because it's HD, but most just because it's American made in opinion. I think the HD image of poor quality kills Buell sales, plus HD dealers want nothing to do with them. Let an American company buy Buell and put them in other motorcycle shops and push the AMERICAN MADE thing to the limit. With the foriegn invasion of auto's, I believe it won't be long before enough people have lost their jobs and start to revolt against foriegn made items. Buell will be sitting there looking GOLDEN. Thank God for GM, one company holding on as long as they can to keep some jobs in America, although that is making it hard for them to be competitive. People (like all of us buying Buells) need to support American made stuff, and yes, even if that means we might have to replace a $15 clutch cable or $1 gasket that we might not have if it were a Honda. I'll pay the $15 and keep a job in this country. Just my "two cents" guys. Honestly, if HD were smart they would dump tons of money into Buell and market the hell out of them. I still believe most folks would rather buy an American made bike as long as the quality and HP were up to par. And I think the quality is getting close, need to work on the horses a bit. | ||
| Court |
Buell is a very young company and the association with Harley-Davidson is a good one. Like a good marriage, it has it's days but I could not have dreamed, 20 years ago, how well things have turned out. I expect great things from Buell over the coming years. Court | ||
| Damnut |
Something needs to be done about the dealerships though. I have multiple horror stories about the dealership the I bought my bike from. Precision HD in Pawtucket RI. From when I bought the bike to when I had to have service done. I can go into this further if someone wants to hear about it. One example: 3 weeks after I bought my bike, go to start it, running like crap and won't stay running. I call Precision and they say bring it down. I was there for 3 WEEKS!!!!! and it would have been there longer if I didn't go down there and complain to the owner. Oh yea and the problem with my bike. TPS reset. This was before I found BadWeb. God I love this place. | ||
| Court |
>>>Something needs to be done about the dealerships though. Absolutely. And you'd rather start with one of the largest, most established dealer networks in the world. Or, from scratch. . . . just have Buell leave HD and work through say the MotoCyz network. There's work to be done but I am convinced few here, most being new Buell owners, have an appreciation for how far Buell has struggled to come. I noticed in the thread where everyone was giving Escham all the advise that the "most senior" Buell owner in the lot was two years, all the rest of the folks were one year. If you coulda seen what Buell was going through, say ever 8 or 10 years ago..... | ||
| Percyco |
I think the HD image of poor quality kills Buell sales Huh ?........maybe in the AMF days but sure as heck not now. On what planet is H-D quality poor ? Isnt H-D number one in sales here in the US as far as street bikes ? There must be a lot of silly folks out there shelling out big cash for poor craftmanship.......Hmmmmm | ||
| Tbowdre |
H-D = image, not performance, which is fine for many people. I am not bashing Harley....maybe a little. BUT I bought a Buell and not a Duc 999, monster, KTM duke, Aprillia, triumph ... because of Harley dealers... everywhere, parts availablity everywhere... Ill take the harley support. | ||
| Xb12rdude |
Huh ?........maybe in the AMF days but sure as heck not now. On what planet is H-D quality poor ? Isnt H-D number one in sales here in the US as far as street bikes ? There must be a lot of silly folks out there shelling out big cash for poor craftmanship.......Hmmmmm That's why I used the word "image". It's next to impossible to break a poor quality image. I had at least 15 smart comments about "is my HD leaking oil yet". Of course most of this comes from the HD AMF days. Look at GM, they just beat out Toyota in the latest JD power reviews for quality and Toyota has had 3 recalls of a Million plus cars for poor quality in the last year. But if you ask any smo off the street all they'll talk about is Toyota's quality is so much better than American made vehicles | ||
| Damnut |
Don't get me wrong Court, I don't want to see Buell leave HD.... not at all but I feel when I walk into a HD dealership I am shown NO respect. Like my money isn't as good as the HD peoples money. I feel that it is sad that I have to ride 2 hours to a somewhat respectable HD/Buell service shop because the one 20 minutes from me keeps shoving my nose in crap. I have always loved and followed the Buells over the years even though I did not own one and when I went to go buy my first "New" bike I went right to a Buell. Basically if most of the dealerships treated us Buellers as well as the HD folks I think that the Buell product,as a whole, would do a lot better. just my opinion. On a side note check out this bike I saw walking around Paris today. I want one!!!   | ||
| Xb12rdude |
Tank wheelies would hurt like a biatch on that. Stoppies might be easy though with the front end wieght and all. :-) | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I don't want to ride rice, but I do like sport bikes. Enter Buell, the American sport bike, per say. Buell's association with H-D is part of the appeal to me. In my opinion, if Buell were better promoted, had parts, accessories and clothing on display, I think they would do a lot better. But what do I know? I no very little, if anything, about marketing and running a business. I am just the poor smuck who absolutely enjoys riding Buells!!! Edited to add; If I had the time, I would learn all I could from DaveS and then seek employment at the local H-D/ Buell Dealer!! (Message edited by Paint shaker on July 29, 2006) | ||
| Imonabuss |
In the perception of sportbike riders, H-D quality is very bad. I know it's not true, but that is the perception. The good news for H-D is that cruiser riders think the quality is great, and that's where the big sales are, especially in the US! | ||
| Cochise |
Do you want to know my theory? No, well sorry, I'll tell you anyway. I think the reason dealers care more about Harleys is because you can be any geek on the street (No offense salesmen, read the entire post though) and sell a Harley because they pretty much sell themselves. A person goes into the dealership and often say, "I want the Red one" On the other hand it takes an excellent salesman to steer that guy who wants to buy that Harley and get him to buy that Buell instead. | ||
| Rocketman |
I've owned Buell brand for 7 years and 11 months. I'd say nothing has changed in the great scheme of things, even though everything has changed. That is to say, what was great 8 years ago cannot be viewed as inferior today. Not the man nor the product. If it were so, that means in another 8 years we'll be told that today's Buells, even though great, were somewhat floored. If we keep needing to wait several years at a time for Buell to revolutionise the motorcycling world, I'd say the wait isn't worth it. By then the Motoczyzs will have won at least back to back MotoGP titles. Honda will be heading the space race against Hyosung - neither company producing motorcycles any longer. Harley Davidson will be producing small town cars powered by tandem hydrogen fuel cell and small electric motor. Court will be dumping his Buell stock, including shares he bought from Erik Buell, as Buell bicycle manufacturer finally grinds to a halt due to cheap import bicycles from the Far East flooding the US market. Meanwhile, the Chinese have netted themselves a new and talented consultant engineer for their 2 wheeled 49cc commuter development. One Erik Buell. THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT. HEAD TOWARD THE LIGHT All in great fun  Rocket | ||
| Old_man |
I have no doubt that most Harley dealers need to adjust their attitude toward Buells if they want to sell them. When I picked up my Buell after 6 weeks in the shop to have a few hours work completed. I remarked that my son is looking to buy a bike but I would have a hard time recommending Harley because of the poor service. The remark, next, of the service agent was very telling. "Oh, you wouldn't have these problems with a Harley"... I responded that I thought that Buell WAS a Harley Davidson product. What I gleaned from this is that Buell is treated as second class. If you want good, prompt service you had better buy a Harley. (Message edited by old man on July 29, 2006) | ||
| Court |
We're gonna need to sort out the "baby and the bath water" folks. Buell quality is on par with ANY motorized vehicle in the world. Buell quality is on par with ANY motorized vehicle in the world. Read it one more time.... Buell quality is on par with ANY motorized vehicle in the world. I emphasize that because that came as the result of some very dedicated and smart people working very hard. It was not always so. Now, let's work with that for a minute and in our "tools for the future" put a resource titled "has dealt with and successfully overcome systemic problems in the past". We'll need that tool in the future. The Harley-Davidson association is fabulous. Don't get me wrong, and I'll go back to my marriage analogy again, not every day is overcome with rays of sunshine. The sheer numbers ensure there will be some personality conflicts. That's exacerbated as there are a few folks, I suspect envious of Erik's success, who carry flies and look for ointment to put them in. I always compare the mix to my USMC unit.....a very diverse bunch of folks, some great, some total assholes....but for better or worse, these were the guys I was "married" to when the shit hit the fan. The Buell and HD have similar elements. In addition, if you are "partnering" with someone in the motorcycle business and you are Buell, who happens to be using the motor (careful about where you folks place the horse and the carriage in this serial order equation....you could be wrong) they make, you'd have a tough time doing better. First, HD may look BIG to many of us, but there was a small corps of 13 folks with balls the size of a Kenworth who put the pieces of HD back together when AMF shattered them (it was not ALL AMF's fault, they certainly did their share, but had the dubious fate of holding the potato at the time) in the 70's. If you don't know who Rich Teerlink is, go do some Goggleing. There are two defining moments in my friendship with him, the best, for the instant discussion, is when a Harley-Davidson line worker told he "he makes over $2,000,000 a year and I think he's underpaid". He was a finance guy who understood big business AND Erik Buell. Rich, Jeff Bleustein and others knew what it was like to be small, under funded and not stand a snowball's chance in hell. They are the type of people who thrive on this stuff. The other element is that if I were partnering with someone, I'd be leaning towards one of the cash richest (and getting richer) firms in America. Only a fool believes there's a dollar spigot hanging over Erik Buell, but it does mean Buell will be here 10 years from now, without question. I suspect there are days Erik would like to nuke 3700 Juneau, I assure you there are days the folks at 3700 would like to launch scuds towards 2719 Buell Drive. Most great relationships have these elements. Harley-Davidson has been getting what they wanted from Buell and in a big way. The motorcycles they got along the way have been a fabulous side benefit, particularly now that Buell is ADDING to the bottom line. Imagine for a minute that you are building a motorcycle in the barn, have the business savvy, WHILE engineering, building, distributing, supporting and promoting these bikes, to put the deal together with HD and then, on top of all of it, turn a profit. Buell and Harley-Davidson are in it for the "long game". Few people see 10 years ahead like Erik Buell. He believed in the XB frame 15 years before you saw it and had the tenacity to follow his heart. That's good for me, it's good for you and it's good for Harley-Davidson. Another thing that Erik Buell is bringing is GREAT people. Harley-Davidson can attract really GOOD people. Buell attracts folks whose genius would play well as a solo act. Erik has the ability to meld them into teams that can do things few other teams in the world can do. I have the benefit of knowing who some of the folks who have quietly toured the Buell Assembly Facility to assuage their "you can't possibly build anything by hand and maintain these quality numbers". Yes, you can. . but you must understand Elves. Court |
