| Author | Message | ||
     Indy_bueller |
I mean, HD had to go to Germany to come up with a new motor. Guess again. | ||
| Jscott |
Back on the Highland engine topic, here is a tidbit from a Buell owner discussing his trip to Sweden and riding a Highland bike. It is off the internet, so take it for what its worth: "Interesting comparo; I have just returned from Sweden where I had an opportunity to compare the [unavailable in the U.S.] Highland 950 V-twin adventure bikes with the KTM 950 offering during several hours of rural Swedish back-road bashing. The KTM is indeed nicely refined and rides much lighter and nimbler than its size and heft would indicate. Having said that, the unexpectedly high vibration levels at any and all engine speeds were annoying and curious in light of the twin balance shaft architecture of the motor. However, the Highland, in all 3 iterations [Motard, Allroad, and Adventure] simply blows the KTM away. Sportbike HP, coupled with dirtbike torque and racebike handling makes an unreal package. And, little vibration from a non-balance shaft V-twin which, by the way, is the lightest currently on the planet. The entire bike is a [relative] feather-weight at 360 lbs., dry. If I had a complaint, it is that the Highland is a little too "racy" - not surprising since it is the product of a partnership of ex-motocross and speedway racing stars and engineers from the halycon days of Husqvarna and Husaberg. The seat, peg and bar ergonomics work to push you forward over the tank with elbows splayed and on your toes. Great in the dirt but less so at high speed on pavement. Having said that, on a "technical" road course such a Louden, I would bet my Vanson leather suit I could lap faster on the Highland than on my full-race Buell Thunderbike class machine. As for canyon dicing, it would give a current liter-class sportbike fits. Oh, I forgot to mention, the price is obscene [$16K], even in Europe, but it IS basically a hand-built homolgation special that employs all the best bits available for every single function screwed together by guys who know how these hybrid bikes are supposed to work." http://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=3218&mode=nested&thold=1} | ||
| Anonymous |
JScott, Not an American on the team, is there? And in November this year Buell will hit it's 100,000th motorcycle. But Sniffle and his ilk make fun of Buell as not being a sportbike. Bite us. We didn't import talent from England, instead we export American designed motorcycles that win Best Handling Motorcycle of all time in a British sportbike magazine. And more cool stuff coming in the next five years than these turds who make fun of us can ever dream of. | ||
| Pwnzor |
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| Xlcr |
Yes, let's talk about how wonderful Japanese dealers are. Firstly, none of the Japanese 'motorcycle' dealers around here seem to be aware that they ARE motorcycle dealers. If you go in to look at a bike, they treat you like a second class citizen. They seem to be in the business of selling four-wheelers, much the more so since gas prices went up, as four-wheelers are street legal hereabouts. The showrooms are all full of four-wheelers, and the bikes are back in the corner and covered with dust. They wanted to make me a salesman at a local Japanese dealer once. I refused when I was told my job was to sell them the biggest and most expensive bike I could talk them into, regardless of what they came to buy or how inexperienced they were. In other words, they wanted me to murder people so they could earn more money. I don't care what anyone says, talking totally inexperienced 16-year-olds into buying 600 fours, or even not talking them out of buying 600 fours, is murder in my book. I've watched too many of them get into bad crashes within the first two weeks of ownership. And in the same vein, those who say Buells are not sport bikes because they don't make 150 HP are pathetic. They are sport bikes because that is how they are intended to be used, HP matters not at all. In fact, 150 HP on a street bike is nothing less than pure idiocy, period. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Not an American on the team, is there? And in November this year Buell will hit it's 100,000th motorcycle. But Sniffle and his ilk make fun of Buell as not being a sportbike. Bite us. We didn't import talent from England, instead we export American designed motorcycles that win Best Handling Motorcycle of all time in a British sportbike magazine. And more cool stuff coming in the next five years than these turds who make fun of us can ever dream of.  Waiting, trying really hard to be patient.  | ||
| Anonymous |
One thing is absolutely guaranteed: When (and if) MotoC ever produces a street-legal bike, we will with confidence match up the fastest street-legal production Buell to it on the racetrack. It would make a great "Pinks." Maybe we can get some money for it on e-bay when it's all over. | ||
| Court |
I love the internet. . . >>>I mean, HD had to go to Germany to come up with a new motor. That's dead wrong. Ignore the part about dealers and all that, they are light years from even figuring how to crate and ship them much less where to ship them TO! And one major hurdle they'll have to leap as they scurry to catch Buell...eventually it's going to have to run.
SIMILAR - both race bikes - keen mind there. DIFFERENCE - THE FOCKEN' BUELL RAN! - - get a grip. Read it again...a HUMAN BEING could get on the seat, start the motor and ride off. All things considered a fine quality for a motorycle. I love the internet. Those of you who were quick to find lame excuses when the Buell dusted the Ducati at Daytona would certainly struggle to accept the explanation that the C-1 was unable to complete the 2nd parade lap as a result of the drag induced by the flag the rider was carrying....yeah, right. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Did they really say the flag caused the bike to break? They must have went to the Bill Clinton school of tongue-in-cheek "spin" if thats the case.  | ||
| Thepup |
SIMILAR - both race bikes - keen mind there. DIFFERENCE - THE FOCKEN' BUELL RAN! - - get a grip. Read it again...a HUMAN BEING could get on the seat, start the motor and ride off. All things considered a fine quality for a motorycle. I love the internet. I guess they could have used that ole Buell shortcut and used someone elses engine,man what are they doing trying to build there own engine. | ||
| Thepup |
Did they really say the flag caused the bike to break? They must have went to the Bill Clinton school of tongue-in-cheek "spin" if thats the case. Court does alot of spinning himself,maybe they have been reading BadWeb for some pointers. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
I guess you are the Mastermind. I trust we will be seeing the "Pup 1000R" debuting soon? | ||
| Court |
Yeah, I know. . . it was originally on badweb, but you can find this on most the websites to pretty well sum up the "Sizzle". Of course, this was a LONG time ago, when the bike was in developement and before you could buy one.
| ||
| Court |
Well, one thing that can be said is that they have made some real MEASURABLE claims:
Let's see how it pans out.....I'm sure it'll help when they discount those "street bikes" down to $55-65K right there in the target range for sportbikers. | ||
| Jscott |
I hear there is a market for rare American Superbikes in Poland! | ||
| M1combat |
Sheesh... How did I miss this one? I think Court quoted it best two posts up. I'm sorry some people don't see it but the fact is that great street bikes make money for a company to use to race. Word of mouth will spread. People ask questions. Those of us who can see the point can explain the point and wait for that little light to click on over someone's head when they get it too. It happens more than 50% of the time. Most people aren't stupid... They're uninformed. Once things are explained to someone and they have a moment to think and ask a few more questions they get it. BMC has a point. That point is that street bikes are not the same as race bikes. Different things are important. They've identified those things and optimized them. What's great is that the bike can be turned into a great track bike as well. It was said a page ago that people (like Court?) can't see the forest for the hiney he has his nose in? WTF? Open your own effing eyes my friend  ... that's what they're there for. The XB can't be compared to the Japanese sport bikes? Come on... Open them... Wake up... Stop being marketed to. Stop being drunk by straight line acceleration and learn what a motorcycle is all about (unless that's what you want is straight line fun... then be my guest). An XB will keep up with the best race replicas the world has to offer on a good canyon road (you know... Those ones that scare you half to death). The XB is fast enough that on the good roads it's SOOOOO much more about the rider than the power. So sorry you can't keep up. Learn. Open your eyes. Turn them into the corner while your at it... On the Shizzle/Rhoar/whatever the other one was subject... All the more power to them as far as I'm concerned but they're still just making race replicas. They're boring. I don't care how much power they have or how high they rev or even who makes their engines or if something made by the same people won a race last Sunday (OR couldn't finish two laps, whatever)... I care about a bike that goes like stink around a bumpy decreasing radius downhill right hand turn that's marked 15mph that "opens" into a tight left with a cattle guard thrown in between the two just for good measure. When you find something that'll do that quicker than an XB12R lemme know. Two things sell motorcycles... Tail lights and peak power numbers. I'll take the one that'll show it's tail lights to just about anyone else on my favorite canyon road every time. Anybody that cares to can wring a bikes neck in a straight line... | ||
| Jscott |
"One thing is absolutely guaranteed: When (and if) MotoC ever produces a street-legal bike, we will with confidence match up the fastest street-legal production Buell to it on the racetrack. It would make a great "Pinks." Maybe we can get some money for it on e-bay when it's all over." Great idea, then you could afford to race a full season in FX!  (Message edited by JScott on July 07, 2006) | ||
| Imonabuss |
Y'know, if the contest is an American building an exotic race bike using European talent, it's already over. The winner? Kenny Roberts, Sr. He's already been there and done that far beyond Sizzle's dreams. Yeah, he's using a Honda engine now, but he built and raced two of his own design first, and really got some MotoGP points with them. In fact he might have gotten a win. And maybe with Jezza? | ||
| Rocketman |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the RW750 wasn't Mr Buell's creation. The tube frame Barton square four two stroke 750 was Barry Hart's creation, allegedly heavily modified by Mr Buell sometime later. Buells first attempt at a complete motorcycle was the RR1000. I don't recall ever seeing one of those raced back in the 80's, and even if some of the 50 built were, they were more road bike than race bike? All that aside, where could one buy an RW750 back in the early 80's? MotoC's approach is not in the slightest comparable to Buell beginnings, so why argue the point in Buells favour? Wouldn't it be better to give credit to both where credits due? Rocket | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
didnt buell have a partner way back in the day...marseii or something like that he makes jackets and touring clothes now...way i read it on his website he got kinda screwed over....wish i could remember how to spell his name...makes nice jackets. | ||
| Trojan |
Highland have come up with a motor that is powerful, light and recently reliable, with a lot more to come. I too know the history of this engine and I take my hat off to the guys that built it. Just because they utilised existing egineering to make their V-Twin certainly doesn't make it 'poor'. John Britten did exactly the same thing with his engine and his bike was in no way poor was it? It would be well to remember the humble origins of the XB motor too. There are people here who very quickly flame anyone for making even constructive criticism of anything Buell, but then do the same to products of any other manufacturer. The world would be a very boring place if we all rode the same bikes wouldn't it? Does it matter what the nationality of an engineer/designer is? If they are good then they are good. If not no-one remembers them anyway. | ||
| Thepup |
I guess you are the Mastermind. I trust we will be seeing the "Pup 1000R" debuting soon? I never said building a motorcycle was easy,but building a bike to compete today from scratch and doing the same almost 30 years ago is just a little different,but I am sure you knew that.With that being said if I had a few million to get started,I am sure I could do it,as could most anyone if they put their minds to it and had the passion,computer aided design is a pretty cool thing. | ||
| Glitch |
I didn't see this thread as a contest between Buell and any other. I saw it as a "hey look what I found, another American trying to build motorcycles", America needs more dreamers. And look at what it turned into. I'm disappointed. The only question in my mind after reading all this is, why all the friction between BMC and MotoC? Also, I wonder what will come of Polaris/KTM, and what impact that will have on the American motorcycle market. The first I doubt I'll ever know. The second, only time will tell. Sadly neither have much to do with the thread topic. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I'm disappointed Yeah I am too. A poignant example of why using the internet for real information is like going to a brothel for virtue. When I expressed an opinion, the best defense anyone could marshal was to make fun of and attack my enthusiasm for Buell. Not exactly the stuff of MENSA members. I doubt there is any friction between Buell and MotoCyz. Mike Csyz make a mistake of insulting Buell when backed into a corner. I'm betting he'd like to take those words back, they really shot his credibility all to hell. My bet is that few folks in Wisconsin could give a flying rat's ass about an architect selling sweatshirts with his name on them. Making and then failing to meet, commitments did little to advance the corporate chess piece. Polaris is an amazing company. I'm not wasting my time discussing here, but if you ever want drop me a note. I wrote and article about the firms ability to control overhead during lean times and they are (proven when their Japanese motor supplier pulled the rug out from under them) a company with amazing abilities. Frankly, I am unconvinced they really want into the "sportbike" market. I'm outta here for a while, I wanna go talk about motorcycles. | ||
| Glitch |
the internet for real information is like going to a brothel for virtue. Good one! Not exactly the stuff of MENSA members. But close, have you read some of their Some of them put us in a much better light.  Mike Csyz make a mistake of insulting Buell when backed into a corner. Nuff said, that's all it would take to form friction, add a little interweb, and there you have it! I am unconvinced they really want into the "sportbike" market. I guess it's a question of what is a "sportbike". The SuperMoto is gaining much speed here in the US. The City Cross' competition? Thanks Court! | ||
| José_quiñones |
This "not Buell" bashing reminds me so much of my favorite SP episode:  SMUG ALERT! I hope they all succeed, we have plenty of US chopper companies, we need US Sportbike companies. | ||
| Xbradical |
Trojan hit the nail on the head with, "There are people here who very quickly flame anyone for making even constructive criticism of anything Buell, but then do the same to products of any other manufacturer." I'm on a lot of bike sites and I've not seen any that have the lack of tolerance, or volatility exhibited here. Must be a "Harley thing"? | ||
| Jscott |
José - great analogy. I often wish I had enough capital to be a "wannabe hobbyist". Of course unlike Czsyz I would have gone the easy route and taken an XB frame and slapped in a 1200 Highland motor and called it done! The more the merrier! | ||
| Spatten1 |
"And more cool stuff coming in the next five years than these turds who make fun of us can ever dream of." I hope that includes a world class engine. The "evolved" sportster engine is a fine niche powerplant, but hardly anything to brag about (no pun intended). Why knock someone that is at least taking the effort to design something clean sheet and shoot for world class performance. Even if they miss the mark, at least they are aiming high. | ||
| Jscott |
"No guarantee I/we can do this but I can guarantee you that if our goal was to build the 4th or 5th best sportbike then the 4th or 5th would be the best we would achieve. The personal cost (not just financially) to try to build a ground up, clean sheet sportbike is significant. I could not personally justify so many late nights away from my sons so I could be at work building a 4th or 5th rate machine." Michael Czysz |
