| Author | Message | ||
     Vonsliek |
front brake seems to fade pretty alarmingly on track at the end of a long fast straight. bike has 10000+ kms on it .. mostly hard riding. i read that front brake disks warp after a couple of track sessions & shd be considered disposable. also, what kinda pad life are we expecting?? any better - way better - pads we can use?? i have been hitting a few false neutrals on track at WOT .. 1-thru-3 .. is clutch losing it?? never changed clutch. is there an andrews close ratio gearbox i can use w/ high first?? a 6 speed perhaps?? any thoughts/empirical evidence?? lastly .. a better track tire?? paul. | ||
| Trojan |
If you are keeping the stock front brake setup then try changing the brake fluid for a race type with a higher boiling point. As far as pads are concerned Braking have some very good sintered pads available that are suitable for track use and not too hard on the stock disc. Alternatively try changing the rotor for a Braking Wave type. These run cooler and seem a lot more resistant to fade and warping than the stock rotor. Without wishing to open this can of worms again you could of course consider a twin disc setup.  Andrews do offer a close ratio gear set for the XB. There is no 6 speed option available at present for this model. We have been using the Metzeler Racetech tyres on our XB for most of the season (soft front/ medium rear) and these are about as good as it gets for a treaded tyre. Don't expect to get much life out of them though. We will get through a set in a weekend easily. If you want slick tyres then try the Pirelli Superbike slicks. | ||
| Vonsliek |
cool trojan .. good advice .. the racers here use pirelli s/b slicks & they are plenty soft giving the cooler canadian climes. i had a feeling Braking Wave had rotors for xb .. race type brake fluid is a great suggestion .. really appreciate that ... over here fack all race or know of/run buells .. i took a risk & now i am determined to rub-it-in!! >  twin disks are definitly on the cards, as i get to chose stronger wheels too .. i have busted 2 in a few months .. they are so weak from the powder-coating. plus it opens up loads of options. i don't care abt life of tires, i want i want TOTAL confidence on tight cornes, coz i really like to run corners HARD! :P close ratio sounds good for future .. thanks for the update & rule brittania! | ||
| Jens |
Vansliek, We run the XB RR factory 8 pistontcaliper since March on our XB Racebike and it works great in combination with a lowpriced Nissin radial pump. The 8 piston caliper will be available for the public in the next months. Jens | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Jens - Is there a low priced Nissin radial pump that will work with the stock front brake? I tried a 5/8" Nissin off a Japanese liter bike, and it seemed to require more force at the brake lever. | ||
| Jens |
Jon, yes there is. We use a 19mm Nissin, price in Europe is less than 200 uro. Great combination for professional riding. Jens | ||
| Blake |
How's that for good advice Paul? Matt and Jens, you guys rock. Thanks for helping out the folks with your big hairy knowledge.  | ||
| Barker |
Warping in most cases is caused by rapid cooling from high temps. Do a crazy stoppie in to your local hangout, and then let the bike sit will get you a warped rotor. Run it hard on the track and then pull in and park it, could warp the rotor. Try to use the brake lightly a few times after hard use it will slow the cooling process down and you will be less likly to warp the rotor. Warping can happen to most rotors, not just the buell ZTL rotors. | ||
| Jens |
Blake, sorry canīt resist (-: Jens | ||
| Stealthxb |
Jens, I am interested in the master cylinder you mentioned in the post above? Do you have a link or any more details? | ||
| Jens |
Stealth, the Nissin 19mm radial Master is in our catalog part Nr. 3670574 -see picture. The picture in our webshop shows the semiradial. Sure you find it in the USA too. Our distributor say its similar to the master they use OEM on: GSXR 750-Models from 04 und GSXR 1000 from 05, ZX 6 R/RR 05-and CBR 1000 RR. But I am not sure about that. Forgotten, comes as kit including reservoir and brakelightswitch. Jens Jens  (Message edited by Jens on June 26, 2006) | ||
| Rhun |
I have 6 track days on my 12R Stock master and caliper and rotor. I change the fluid every other event and use DOT 4 high temp. I use EBC GFA345 HH pads. I knock the glaze off every other event by rubbing on cement. My breaks work fine. I have no trouble sliding the front tire. As I understand one of the advantages of the funny rotor is there isn't ability to warp since it is narrow and overly rigid by its mounts | ||
| Stealthxb |
Thanks Jens! I will check with Daves about $. | ||
| Anonymous |
Excellent suggestions. The brake rotor certainly should not be considered disposable! The biggest issue is the stock pads which are optimized for street and not track. There are many pads available that are better on the track. Also quality racing brake fluid is a good thing. A racing master cylinder will help braking overall, and it may add a bit more stiffness to the system to that would buy you a bit more brake when the friction level of the pads starts dropping off. You can also play a bit with bore sizes. The bore size we chose gives the optimum balance for different rider skill levels, as too aggressive makes many riders uncomfortable. Getting more cooling to the brake to pull in air as you are slowing down will reduces the warping going from hot to dead stop. A cool off lap as mentioned above is definitely valuable. Best of all is a ZTL2 8 piston, because it adds more pad area and has four pads which keeps the friction force more balanced, and best of all it is much stiffer, so less lever pressure gets wasted on caliper deflection. Don't go to the dark side of two discs, the ZTL system has many core advantages, and with the advent of more pad choices, and the ZTL2 caliper, you can get near MotoGP level performance from it. At least that's what Jeremy says. | ||
| Rr_eater |
Well, uh, wonder who anonymous is.......... Thank you for the explanation. Just curious, as I can't seam to find out yay or nay, will the new caliper be a bolt on replacement for our older ones by chance? Bruce | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes it is a direct replacement...for racing only. | ||
| M1combat |
Yes... For racing only... I have a feeling that Dave will be selling lots of these to racers... for backups of course... | ||
| Stealthxb |
Jens... Daves informed me he is having difficulty locating this part #? Do you happen to know what page it is located on in the catalog. Anonymous... Would there happen to be a For Racing Only master cylinder available soon? | ||
| Mutation_racer |
been running a 12r on the same rotor for the hole race season with no problems, pads depend on how hard you brake | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Anonymous, Perhaps you can explain the different effects of different bore sizes of master cylinders. I switched from the stock 1/4" Nissin unit to a 5/8" Nissin unit from a Japanese sport bike so I could get the remote reservoir which fit better on my aftermarket handlebars. I found that the 5/8" unit took more force at the handlebar. Is that normal, and if so, why does that happen? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Jon that's as it should be. with the larger piston diameter it will take more lever pressure, but it pushes more volume where a smaller diameter master cylinder will require less lever pressure it'll move less fluid volume per inch of lever travel. Does that make sense? | ||
| Ronlv |
i switched to alth star wave rotors since my braking wave rotor warped manufacture info here http://www.alth.it/ cost alittle more than other brands but so far no warping but i dont race either, however i am hard on the brakes because i almost never use my rear unless i am skiding for fun (Message edited by ronlv on June 27, 2006) (Message edited by ronlv on June 27, 2006) | ||
| Anonymous |
StealthXB, yes. G_Jon, Diablo is right on target. Smaller bore gives more force advantage to the rider, but at the expense of needing more travel. So you can stop harder with less force using the small bore, but it will feel like your brakes are soft, and if too small you might run out of travel and hit the bar!! | ||
| Jens |
Stealth, its Nr. 3670574 on page 68 (on the catalog pic shown is the semiradial) but the Nr. is right. We can confirm that the 8 pistoncaliper in combination with the 19mm radialpump is not at all behind the actueil double radials. And it let keep you all the positive effects of the ZTL. Jens | ||
| Trojan |
We use a Swedish ISR radial brake master cylinder on our race bike. It features not only adjustable reach but adjustable ratio as well. This means that you can adjust the 'feel' of the lever to suit you and your style of riding. They are not cheap but they certainly are good and are used extensively in GP racing. They come in either 14mm or 17.5mm bore sizes but for single disc application the 14mm size works very well.   | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
wow that's a nice piece there Trojan.  how much are they and do they have a matching set for the clutch side? | ||
| Trojan |
Hope you are sitting down Radial brake master cylinder (remote reservoir) is GBP212 or approx US$380 at todays rates. The matching clutch lever and perch is GBP76.60 or around US$138.  They also do a non radial master cylinder at GBP148 (US$266), and offer both types with remote or integral reservoirs.   | ||
| Diablobrian |
how much are replacement levers on those ISR's? | ||
| Vonsliek |
a pertinent question! | ||
| M1combat |
Holy cow... Those are cool . | ||
| Trojan |
how much are replacement levers on those ISR's? Replacement levers are available and cost around GBP25 (US$45 approx) each. They are interchangeable between the clutch and brake sides, so you would only need one spare lever blade to cover both sides. | ||
| Henrik |
Trojan; one more ISR question: on their site they carry a "custom" front master cylinder that will fit 1" bars. Do you know if they carry or would be willing to make a race master cylinder to fit 1" bars as well? I would have contacted the company, but they don't have email access ...? Henrik | ||
| Firemanjim |
Yes,I tried to look for e-mail contact also.I need some pad locating pins(like all 6) for my ISR calipers and one of the buttons from the ISR rotor as I have had one come undone and lost the back.I have a complete ISR dual disc/rotors combo on my S-2.Any help appreciated. | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan; one more ISR question: on their site they carry a "custom" front master cylinder that will fit 1" bars. Do you know if they carry or would be willing to make a race master cylinder to fit 1" bars as well? Most of the ISR product line is modular. i.e. you can make pretty much anything from the parts. Unfortunately this does not apply to the 1" custom parts as they use a completely different casting for these parts. If there was enough demand then they might make a 1" race master cylinder but to be honest I don't think there would be much demand for it. Jim, I will contact the UK distributors and see what I can get for you. | ||
| Henrik |
Thanks Matt. Appreciate the info. Henrik | ||
| Trojan |
FiremanJim, you have a PM  | ||
| Mdm |
XBRR brake on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260003187276&ssPag eName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT (Message edited by mdm on June 30, 2006) |
