| Author |
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Brineusaf
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 04:27 pm: | 
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Ha Ha, very funny Kdan! If all I got was 110 I would be a richer man, damn power converters are expensive, no joke. |
Cochise
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 05:33 pm: |
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I paid 12grand for an Ss and received an S. I have yet to notify the dealer, which isn't open (0630). And was wondering if you guys would think it "selfish" to b*tch-n-moan about receiving the incorrect model, or settle with what I have.
Hell, no, not selfish, you ordered the Ss, you should get the Ss. Also tell them you want a Micron pipe for the mixup, and you want it installed. |
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 05:45 pm: |
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Yah but you got to be honest with yourself.
Am I happy with what I am riding now?
You got a comparable product of the same value for the same amount. Its not theyre fault you didnt know the difference. You knew enough to ask for it didnt you? You didnt loose anything in the deal. I say they dont owe you anything...Its probaly an honest mistake on theyre part too....language bariers..plus theire arent a whole bunch of Buells out there right?
If you didnt loose anything then you all are even.
Ride and enjoy...Also you got to remmember they are the one taking care of your waranty work more than likely...I wouldnt burn bridges if I were you.
You should of taken it back AS SOON as you learned the difference.
JAG is going to tell you the same thing. Once you get Base legal involved think honestly how it looks....
American asks for a product x
Gets product xx (xx costs the same)
USES product xx and is completely happy with it.
AMERICAN now wants free stuff or compensation on the product that he is happy with and has USED AND IS OF THE SAME VALUE OF x.
Either way do what you will
But congrats on the BUELL!! Your gonna love it.
(Message edited by sgthigg on May 08, 2006)
(Message edited by sgthigg on May 08, 2006) |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
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In my opinion, the fact that you like the bike is moot.
You asked for an Ss, you paid for an Ss (even if it's the same price), and you should get what you asked for.
This is an honest mistake I'm sure. If you talk to the sales manager, tell him what happened, show him your quote and finance paperwork, then politely ask him what he can do to help you. Don't tell him anything else, just the facts. Leave the ball in his court since it is ultimately the dealer's responsibility to correct their error, not yours to suggest a solution.
He might offer you a deal that you like, and he might not. Either way, you have a bike you like, so you're a winner.
I certainly wouldn't just let it slide. The Ss does have a lot more room and a much more comfortable seat (IMHO), but I'm 6'5", so any extra room I can get helps. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 07:30 pm: |
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Kyle:
Smart move not riding when you've been up that long.
It looks like you are in the USAF. Send me your shirt size and I'll send you an autographed shirt. If you were in the USMC, of course, I'd send you one that fits.
P.S. - darn right you can go make your dealer toe the line and give you what you ordered....but, man oh man. . . if I were as happy as you, I'd say screw it. If that's the biggest worry you have in your life, come to my world for a day.
Ride, smile.....remember I told you that. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 07:37 pm: |
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>>>>>In my opinion, the fact that you like the bike is moot.
Just for the record, I agree 100%.
Also for the record, all that changed the moment you KNEW it was not the proper bike and rode it (depreciated the value).
It's a tangled web that's been woven many times (and fought in the courts by a Saudi national who bought a Buell thinking it was a Thundestorm engine) and it never fun.
Just a thought based on having seen this 4 or 5 times over the years.
The example I had a law professor use, while lecturing on unjust enrichement. You pull up in your drive and see someone putting a new roof on your house. You know damn well, he's supposed to be roofing your neighbors house but, what the heck, you let him continue.
What do you owe for the roof?
Another great example was the AP photographer who returned from hiking in Yellowstone to find a bear shredding his Porshce 911 after the food inside.
Intent on photographing the event, he shooed rangers, firemen , etc away and out of his viewfinder.
He and insurance company disagreed. Guess who ate the cost?
It's a funny world....If I got the "wrong" motorcycle and was thrilled with it. I'd struggle with it in principle but would like go ride and smile.
Life's short. |
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 08:12 pm: |
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Court,
Im in the USMC you can send me an autographed one that fits anytime.I wont have a problem with that.
7305 Falcon Circle
Ocean Springs MS
39564 |
Dongalonga
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 09:12 pm: |
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Man I wish I was still in the Army...maybe you could send me a shirt for service rendered ;=)
Shaun Sweeney
20 High Street
Saint Albans, VT 05478 |
Dave
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 09:40 pm: |
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He'd be sending LOTS of shirts.
DAve |
Jak
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 09:59 pm: |
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Brineusaf
I dont want to come down on you, but how could you not know what you dropped 12k on? It's like buying a Ducati 999 and getting a 749. Taking two seconds to look it over at the dealership would have netted the difference. I swear I'm not an ass, just amazed at the situation. And I do feel bad about the dealer screwing the deal up in the first place. |
Shea
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:09 pm: |
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You shouldn't have to worry about a salesman not giving you the correct bike. Jak, as said before, these bikes are NOT always easy to tell apart for an untrained eye. As said before, the salesman I dealt with acted like he wasn't sure what kind of bike it was, so I looked it up. If the salesman would have acted like he knew, but maybe didn't, how should I know that? He is the one supposed to know and I expected to get something else. I could have sat on an S and thought, "man, I thought the Ss would have been a little longer than this. Man, I am sure glad I am not sitting on an S, that would be fricken tiny!". |
Jak
| | Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:36 pm: |
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Shea- I agree with you and understand where you're coming from. The easy way to spot a 999 from a 749 is a quick glance at the stickers. This is also true with Buell. The 12S says 12S and the 12Ss says 12Ss. If you went to the sales guy and said I want a 12Ss I would think you would know the difference between the two. Just my opinion. |
Stretchman
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:17 am: |
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Two points. First is, he ordered an SS. They should have delivered an SS. IF they don't know what they are selling, then it is on them. The SS has better seating, more fuel, and more room. For the same price, it should be a better bargain. Should be. The handling on the S model is way better, according to people who have ridden both. I am not the least bit surprised that you are happy with the S. After riding the S, unless you are way tall, the SS probably wouldn't feel the same to you.
You signed the delivery for the S. You took delivery of the S, but there was a language barrier. Even if the people at the dealer had a clue, there is no way that they could have communicated that to you, or have known what you ordered. The situation is pooched, for certain. But there isn't anyone to blame. IT was a screwup, a snafu. It happened. YOu are not wrong. If you have your heart set on an SS, and ordered one, then it isn't really fair to you to get a model you didn't want. Someone else managed to send the wrong bike after you ordered it. IF you want to make a case of it, then go ahead. You will gain fuel, maybe some comfort, and lose some handling. That's up to you. As lo9ng as you can specify that you asked for something you did not receive, and didn't know enough to be able to tell the difference, then it is not fair to you.
the bikes are the same price. You didn't gain or lose anything in the deal. Asking for comp for no losses isn't realistic. Either you want them to make good on the bike you asked for, or you keep the one you have. Accepting anything else in compensation will get your case tossed. The second question to ask is, did someone else get your SS? If so, do they feel that there is a problem? Have you asked them if they took delivery of more than one bike? There may be a chance that someone else got your bike and is happier, and won't give it back.
I cannot see anyone not making good on the original deal. But once you bargain for less, then you are stuck. Contact Buell and let them know what happened. In fact, you should have contacted them first. EVeryone could have avoided a potentially embarrassing situation. But from a legal standpoint, you are essentially correct. Be forewarned, it could turn into a long and protracted legal battle. But there have been cases where the person who received the product has been able to keep it, and got his money refunded as well. The law can be touchy about these things. Depends a lot on the venue, and who will adjudicate it. The case gets more complex because the property and agreements in question crossed lines of jurisdiction. You may have to get the case heard in a German court. Which means a German lawyer. Which also means German law. Which I know nothing about.
Ask Buell customer service, and see what they say. They may be able to give you a more constructive answer as to exactly what happened.
STretch |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:27 am: |
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You should talk to your AAFEES rep if there is a significant language barrier at the
dealership. They used to guard their stamp of approval very jealously. This kind of
thing is exactly what being an AAFEES authorized dealer is supposed to prevent. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 05:41 am: |
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>>>>It's like buying a Ducati 999 and getting a 749.
Huh?
Say that one more time and THINK as you are saying it.
Please. |
Skypephillis
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 07:46 am: |
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>>>>Say that one more time and THINK as you are saying it.
Its like buying an SS and getting an S
next time check the timing cover, its the easiest way to find out the model and capacity. |
Fastfxrs
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 08:22 am: |
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My wife just bought a new Blast last week. I asked if it had the low seat ( didn't want a low as she does'nt need it and its a cramped riding position). The salesman said it was the standard seat, but I did'nt believe him. I saw the invoice during the signing and it said low profile. I switched seats with a standard model he had in back. Everyones happy! Good thing I looked.
Tim |
Jak
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 09:51 am: |
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Court-
As I looked at both models before deciding on my 12R I am aware of what I wrote. The easiest way to see what you are purchasing is to look at the emblems. That is all I was saying.
Jak |
Shea
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
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Jak, look at the emblems on the S and the Ss. The instrucment cluster actually says S on it. I didn't realize it at the time, but the timing cover and cheese grater say Ss. The instrument cluster can throw some people off. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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Jak:
ah. . .that makes sense.
The difference in the S and the SS are subtle.
The differences in the 748 and the 999 are immense.
Cornfused me there! |
Garp
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 01:01 pm: |
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I would NOT trust the emblems on any product to be accurate.
I hope Buell is better than the US Auto Industry, but I have seen PLENTY of Cars roll out of US factories with the wrong gauges, steering wheels, emblems etc. I had several cars delivered to me in one day with Alloys on the right, and steel wheels on the left.
As I said, hopefully Buell is better, but it would be pretty easy to grab the wrong gauges, or timing cover. |
Pcmodeler
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 01:13 pm: |
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I've seen the same thing Garp and many times, it's been done on purpose. Company I worked for had a large GMC dealer as a client (we did their ads). On more than one occasion, we saw GMC trucks on their lot with the Chevy grill/front clip. All the badging indicated GM. |
Ryker77
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 01:34 pm: |
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I would think that the resale value of the S verse the Ss will be different. I know I would pay more for a full size bike than the short near only 1 rider S.
Take this a lesson learned- being in the military you should know to read each and every line on anything before you sign it. Just think this could have been for a more expensive car with even larger errors or intial scamming. |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 01:38 pm: |
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To those who keep telling me to check emblems... I said in the beginning I wasn't sure, so I checked the VIN to alleviate any mislabeling. I did not know if the Ss actually had Ss stickers on it, as I am not familiar with either of the bikes. But anyways, it doesn't matter; stickers could always be wrong... so I checked the VIN.
Court- You don't have to send me a shirt, but if you do I am Mens Medium. I probably won't wear it, instead I'll frame it like I do everything else I get thats cool.
Here is the email from the Sales Guy- Hey – Kyle have you got new pants yet? I’d like to contribute up to $100 towards a pair cos I should have noticed the difference in the bikes
The salesman and I are actually friends, as in we talk about life, and plan on going riding together next week. We've come to the conclusion that it was a mistake and that he just overlooked the extra "s" in Ss, when I had to change the color of the Ss I ordered because they didn't have any.
Regardless, He's offering to compensate to ensure my satisfaction. I didn't lie to him, he asked me if this would greatly affect my riding and I told him "no" that it wouldn't, in fact I like the S very much.
For those interested, the Harley/Buell Dealer is 40miles from my residence, as the Harley/Buell AAFES Sales is 5 miles from me. They are not together, my sales guy didn't explain the bike to me before I rode off with it, some german lady did in very broken english, the sales guy was 35miles away.
I wasn't trying to say I didn't like the S, I just thought I should have gotten what I paid for, which I didn't. But, I AM still satisfied with the bike!
I am going to keep it, and nothing more has come of the mistake than my emailing my salesman. I kept it on the lowest level possible because I wasn't angry, just concerned. I wasn't going to demand anything, in fact I couldn't I am friends with the guy and would have felt out of place doing so, plus rude.
I appreciate the words of wisdom on here, even the ridicule. I've definately learned from this experience, and maybe by this thread it will prevent the same thing happening to someone else.
PS - I set the suspension according to the owners manual, and what a difference. Before it felt like it just wanted to run in a straight line, but not now; now it will gladly roll into a hairpin. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 07:43 pm: |
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You could get a pair of riding boots, or a pair of riding pants on ebay for that $100.
(I know I'm beating the drum a bit here  )
Sounds like your sales guy is trying to do right by you. |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 04:37 am: |
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Yeah, I am thinking of throwing that 100 towards maybe a pair of leather pants. Whats your opinion on that Diablobrian, leather or textile? |
Crusty
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 07:37 am: |
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All's well that ends well.  |
Jak
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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Court-
I'm not trying to pick a fight here but I sense a bit of sarcasm in your last response. I would agree that the differences are subtle between the S and the Ss, but those subtle differences make for an entirely different bike. Upon a glance, the 749 and 999 are very similar, with subtle differences as well. Really, it is the internal functions that separate these bikes the most. All I was really getting at was if I looked down and saw an "S" instead of "Ss" on an any emblem, and I had specifically ordered a bike with the "Ss" designation, it would have made me pause and ask what's up with this?
That being said, Brineusaf, I am glad you are happy with the bike you received and I think the dealer is being fair trying to compensate for the mix-up.
Jak |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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No sarcasm, no smart pants, no fight.
The s and the Ss cost the same.
The 749 and 999 are very different motorcycles in my opinion.
Go into a dealer armed with "749 cash" and ask for a 999 and you'd be laughed out the door.
I may, given the plethora of iterations of both, have my models mixed up, but check it out and let me know.
http://www.motorbikestoday.com/reviews/Articles/ducati_749.htm
All of the 749 and 999 models have similar styling, but each in the series offers significantly different specifications in engine performance and chassis set-up to satisfy the full spectrum of riders seeking a high performance sport bike. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 01:35 pm: |
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Leather has superior abrasion resistance, and can survive several minor falls and still be functional.
Textile is lighter and cooler, but is ultimately disposable. One fall and they will need to be replaced.
Which fit your needs and style more? |
Jak
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:03 pm: |
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Thanks for the link Court. That's actually a pretty good website. When I was in Tulsa looking at Duc's, the dealer actually tried to sale me a 999 that was a left over for the price of a new 749. |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 06:49 pm: |
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Diablo - while visiting family near Nurnburg I con'ed the wife into stopping at the yamaha/suzuki dealer so I could look at gear. I must say they had a GREAT selection from what I am used to. The Diamese (spelling error I bet) suits are awesome, and I am most likely going to get one in a month or so. But I was wondering if you've heard about a suit that says "Rev It" on the chest. They are both 2pc leathers, w/armor. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 07:35 pm: |
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Dainese make great gear. I own a pair of their gloves, and my brother races in a
set of their full leathers. Very high quality.
Rev'it is fairly new on the American scene. They seem to be making a splash though.
They look like quality gear. European standards for gear are higher than in the US.
http://www.revitusa.net/acatalog/Leather_collection.html
From what I've seen they've gotten good reviews, but I've never seen them in person.
Pay particular attention to seams and zippers! Those are the most common points of failure!
I'd say you're definitely on the right track. That's good stuff. |
Sgthigg
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 07:59 pm: |
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YOu should rename this thread Dealer/Buyer error. |
Brineusaf
| | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 07:19 pm: |
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Thanks alot Diablo, I think I will be buying one or the other. My wife likes the looks of the Dainese, I like the price of Rev'it. Ha, So probably the Dianese 2pc suit. Hopefully this time next month I'll have it. |
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