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     Sparky |
We've been told that Buell and Dunlop developed special lightweight tires for the Firebolt. That's fine. But the fact that we can't buy them at our favorite motorcycle tire shop is suspicious and raises a bunch of questions. 1. What's up with that? 2. The stockers are pretty sticky but how do they fare against comparable tires? 3. What's comparable, i.e. what are you running? 4. What's better than OE as far as weight, compliance, traction, warm-up? 5. Has anybody weighed the OE tires? Sport Rider's latest issue race tested Bridgestone BT-001, Dunlop D208GP, Metzeler Rennsport, Michelin Pilot Race & Pirelli Supercorsa. I'm more interested in street tires so I looked up the Sportecs and listed them for comparison. The D207s are listed as unknown because Dunlop is not telling. If anybody's weighed them, please chime in. Here're their weights:
* not available in aftermarket Obviously the factory thinks light weight, good traction & compliance is important, but how about other aspects the mags noted such as "standing up under braking in corners" and heavy steering. Can different tire construction help in these areas? Metzeler thinks so with the Sportec. If you've replaced your tires and feel you made a good choice, let us know what works. Thanks, Sparky 96S1, 98S3, 03XB9R | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mikep |
Sparky(Darryl), Great thread start! I had to put one of the heavy Dunlop D207's on the front of my XB9R (road debris mishap). I do not notice the difference in weight, but I ride on the street to and from work, no race track, no track days. I understand that the difference is significant, if you ride hard (race track). My preference would be to go with the lightweight tire, since there is performance to be gained. mikeyp | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mikep |
Sparky, Here are the weights of the Dunlops for the XB: Heavy D207 front 10.44 lbs Light D207 front 8.93 lbs Heavy D207 rear 14.91 lbs Light D207 rear 11.71 lbs Can you add them to your chart? mikeyp | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Shazam |
1. My personal "favorite theory" was that it was done solely to bring the dry weight of the bike down as much as possible. I don't believe the tire was of a different compound or structure just less rubber (tread depth). 2. I was able to drift the front and rear during hard charging on the 207's have yet to accomplish this on my new tire choice. 3.& 4. I am not sure what's comparable: maybe the pilots, sportec, bt-001, your list are all good candidates....I switched to the pilot sports and was pleasantly surprised (enough so, that I am on my fourth set). It is entirely possible that the 207's had lost enough, that when I replaced them anything would have made a significant difference. I really don't think there is enough of a difference for the average rider to notice. All of the above would probably have enough "stick" to them that at 90% you would fail to see a difference. However I am extremely happy with the Michelins.....I still run 207's on my X1... On a some-what funny side note....(maybe not). I rode my XB to an open house at the KC plant, where I was "told", in the parking lot, by someone claiming to be involved with testing, somehow, that the pilot sports failed some type of stability test for use on the XB. I remember asking him if they had tested the dunlops, with a thousand miles of wear on them, for stability because at that point it was my contention that they sucked! I practically argued with the guy that with all the miles I had on the bike, being on my second set of pilots, that I must certainly "not" know what I am talking about. I walked away without him ever gaining any credibility*... or getting his name... or position within the realm of all things buell...Must've been a dunlop rep. *not that I have a lot of credibility If it won't do wheelies in the rain...get rid of it! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sparky |
Mikep, Thanks for the missing info. I would think that a heavier tire would be bumpier riding but maybe that's more related to sidewall stiffness. I think the regular Dunlops are 2 ply sidewalls whereas the Firebolt's are 1 ply which probably explains the stocker's relative plush ride. I hope I don't lose this compliance and the bike feel "truckish" if I change to another type. That's interesting that the Sportec front is slightly lighter than the OE Dunlop and the rear is slightly heavier. Not too bad of a trade-off. Now if they can actually help with the steering & braking thing, maybe we've really got something. Can't edit the original post now but your info is good as gold. Thanks, Sparky | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| S320002 |
Shazam, "1. My personal "favorite theory" was that it was done solely to bring the dry weight of the bike down as much as possible." You're half right. The reason for the lighter tires was to reduce the unsprung weight in order to improve handling. Lower unsprung weight improves suspension reaction time and compliance. I'm sure some of the magazines have worn out the OEM tires on their test bikes by now, it would be interesting to know what they used as replacements. Greg | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Noface |
I replaced the stock 207's with Dunlop 220's. Overall they are wearing good, but do take a considerable amount of time to get them warmed up. I'm sure they are heavier than the stockers in that the tread depth is greater by at least 50%. The steering does feel a bit heavier, especially in slow turns, but overall, with my skills, I can't tell a whole lot of difference on the street. I haven't had the opportunity to put it on a track. Yet... Jody S. <---lookingforapairofleathersandgoodboots | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ray_Maines |
Every once in a while someone makes a light hearted comment that's more meaningful than the author really meant it to be. That was one of those comments. It didn't rain last Tuesday so I rode the bike to work. While ridding home, at about 30 mph in first gear, I cut the throttle and then whacked it full open again. On a dry street that would give me a huge wheelie but the street was wet and all I got was wheel spin. I jammed it into 2nd gear and got even more wheel spin. Pretty cool, but no wheelie. I'm running Bridgestone 010's but I swear to God I'm going to replace them with something sticker next time. I didn't like the stock Dunlop 207's on my M2 and I don't the equivalent tires on my Triumph Sprint RS. I'm too cheap to replace a set of tires before they're worn out, but when I buy a new set of tires they will be a softer, sticker rubber compound. When I put a set of (softer rubber) BS 020's on the M2 I felt like I had a brand new bike. For the very first time I felt confident while going around corners. Especially in the front, and doubly especially in the rain. I put 10,000 miles on the D207's and I had 8,000 miles on the BS-020's with "some" tread left (i.e. like, maybe I could have gotten 9,000 miles out of the tire) when I crashed the Buell so I don't think there is all that much difference in tread mileage. However, there was a tremendous difference in road feel. I'm going for the softer tire every time. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Lornce |
Ray, Not sure if it's a simple nomenclature gaff or... But Bridgestone Battlax 020's are a longer wearing, harder compound "sport touring" tire. While Bridgestone's Battlax 010's are actually a softer, stickier "sport" tire. Recent Sport Rider tire test rated the Battlax 010's ahead of Bridgestone's own "serious sport" tire (forget the number). Am happy with Dunlops but'll proll'y go with Bridgestone Battlax's next: in Canada they're about 30% less $$ than Dunlops. O10's on the S1 and 020's on the S3. On a tire note: were 120-70/17 207's fitted as stock to S1's a special size for Buells? They seem larger in cross section than 120-70/17's seen on other bikes. Will fit a 60 series front when changing the current tires. Run 60's on the GSX-R and makes steering noticeably sharper.... Best of the season, Lornce | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| S320002 |
Lornce, The OEM tires on S1s weren't D207s but D204s. Dunlop has discontinued the 204s and no they weren't a special size for Buell. Noface, If your new front tire is indeed heavier than your old one it would increase the gyro effect and make the steering feel "heavier". If the footprint is wider than on the old tire that would also increase steering effort. Greg | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ray_Maines |
Yeah, I got the Bridgestone numbers backward. Softer is better, IMHO. YAMMV. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9 |
The new Dunlop D208 ZR's are quite a bit lighter than the D207 Retail's. I think they are very close in weight to the XB9R's OEM D207's, which are unique. Note Dunlop now lists the D208 ZR as the recommended replacement on the XB9R. Here's what I have found in my 12.5 K miles on the XB9R. I've played with a few combos. All aggressive twisties street riding, no track. Note that I weigh 185 lbs. and usually run 36PSI Frt / 38 PSI Rear dead cold - Cold ambient temperatures below 60F I usually lower both pressures 3 PSI. In all cases, the rear wore out more in the center although the sides were close behind, and the fronts were replaced due to wear out of the side tread, plenty of tread left in the centers. Stock D207 OEM tires: Unique tread pattern, compound and profile compared to the retail D207's. Put them side by side and you can see the tread pattern & profile differences. I know the compound is different - both Frt. & rear due to the wear mileage (6K Frt. /3.5K Rear) and the discoloring / balling characteristics on the edges (compared to the Retail D207's below). Overall: Great handling, poor wear rear, great wear front, too expensive for replacements. Frt. tire caused small oscillation at around 55 MPH only. Next set was D207 Retails. Noticeably stiffer and heavier, profiles flatter, compound different. Slowed steering down, not quite as sticky, better mileage rear (4.5K), and poorer mileage front (4.5K). Very stable. No oscillation with this front tire, probably due to the flatter profile. The front wears rapidly off the sides. Price not too bad. Next set was Bridgestone BT010's These tires stuck like glue and steering felt even quicker than the OEM tires, due mainly to the triangulated Frt. profile. Light tires, like the new D208 ZR's. Only problem with the Frt. BT010 was that the oscillation was back, and more severe than the OEM's. It was pretty bad between 45-65 MPH, that range narrowed as the tires wore. This Frt. tire had even more of a triangulated profile than the OEM D207, so I speculate that the XB geometry does not agree with the rounder, more triangulated profiles of some tires, at least without a steering stabilizer. Thus far these were my favorite, but I could not tolerate the oscillation. The rear wore out in 4.5K, but before I changed it, I put the worn out D207 retail back on the front. The oscillation went totally away, so I know it was caused by the front tire. These are the tires I had on the bike at Deal's Gap, awesome for all out maximum cornering grip. I have purchased a set of D208 ZR, and have put almost 1 K on the rear. I have not mounted the D208 ZR on the front; I have the worn D207 Retail on it still. This obviously is not the best combination to evaluate the new rear, but it handles quite well. I took a 450 mile trip down to the twisties in southern Ohio on this set and it felt really good, got the rear to slide a little, but it was pretty cold out (mid Nov.). Lower pressure and warmer temperature should help tremendously. I’ll have the Frt. mounted in the spring and see how it feels. These are really NICE tires. I just hope the more triangulated profile of the frt. D208 ZR doesn't cause the oscillation to re-appear. I'll find out soon. Also, I toasted all the wheel bearings: 8K frt / 12K rear. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Chainsaw |
XB9: Thanks! I was hoping you would chime in on this. (you do have a crapload of miles) I'm about do for a rear tire (4,600 miles). I think I'll give the D208 a shot. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9 |
Chainsaw, hope my 2 cents helps. Shazam says the Pilot Sports work well, he looked comfortable with them at Deal's gap, and we have similar riding styles, so they should work for me. He said he's on his fourth set though. Shazam, what kind of mileage are you getting out of them? I see Michelin has come out with a new tire called the Pilot Road for sport bikes. They are priced a bit lower than the Pilot Sports. http://www.swmototires.com , browse to Michelin street tires. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stormfool |
Started off with factory 207 Dunlops on my X1 then switched to the 205 for a little more seat time before replacement--I can relate to wheelspin in the rain! Whacked the throttle in the third at about 60 and the rear stepped out and kept spinning for about a half block! Yeehaw! Pretty good way to get the silly juice flowing--never felt out of control even during rearend slides with the 205's--very forgiving/predictable, but the 208 Dunlops I just put on are the best of the three I have tried--I use Avon Super Venoms on my 79 Bonneville Triumph and can grind everything in a rainstorm and never feel them lose grip--I use Bridgestone Battlaxes on the 84 Honda CB700S--not as much grip, but predictable slide...if you like that sort of thing. I would say the 208's have superior grip over the 207's--weight isn't a big issue with me and my X1--we're both less than trim  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9 |
To add to my previous post, the Michelin "Pilot Road" is considered a "Sport-Touring" offering. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Prof_Stack |
HD dealer in Seattle today quoted me $130/163 for the OEM Dunlop 207. Independent cycle tire dealer in Seattle quoted ~$160/190 for the newer Dunlop 208, which he said is now preferred for the XB's. Are those prices reasonable? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9 |
Prof_Stack, Check the sw moto tires link in my prevoius post, they have about the best tire prices I can find for these. Do those prices that were quoted including mounting/balancing? On or off the bike? The $130/$163 for OEM tires I believe is List Price from Buell, for the tires only (no labor) $160/$190 is high for the D208ZR if it is only for the tires (no labor); that may be Dunlop Suggested List. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Two_Buells |
I paid 288.38 for a set of 208's for my S1. minus 6% tax and 20.00 to mount and balance (10 each wheel) from my dirt bike shop that I deal with. I bought a set of XB/Dunlops from my dealer for 264.00 including tax. He was selling all his Dunlops for 25% off all summer. My Local dirt bike shop charged me 20 bucks each to mount them. If I buy tires from him, he charges me 10 buck each to mount them. For my XB I'm going to try a set of 208's next. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Reepicheep |
The D208 rear on my Cyclone feels pretty good so far, but is FAR more slippery and takes FAR longer to warm up when you first jump on the bike. Be cool for the first couple miles. Once they are warmed up, they feel as good as the D207's did. If the tread life is really longer (like they advertise) then the D207's, it is a trade off I am happy with. If they don't last significantly longer then the 207's, I will be pretty dissapointed. So far they look to be wearing well enough. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bykergeek |
So, what did everyone get out of their OEM D207? I got almost 3200 miles. There is a nice BT020 out back now and so far, I much prefer it for my (less than) eXXXtreme riding. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Paroyboy |
I have about 2600 miles on my 9R. When it comes time to replace tires, what kind of tire will give me more tread life? Strictly road miles, no draggin parts here, not hooligan material! Are the "sport touring" type what I want? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bykergeek |
>>Are the "sport touring" type what I want? << I won't say 4 out of 5 Dentists agree but that is the route I took. Hope to get at least 6500 mi out of the BT020 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
we've been racing our XB9R with Pirelli Super Corsa's and they are absolutely brilliant! Far better than the OE tyres. Weight has not been an issue and the difference was not even noticeable on the bike. Metzeler Rensports are the same tyre, just a different pattern | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Archer |
Do not buy Metzler race tires for the XB! Got the mez3 on the rear right now and it did some funky stuff to my handling. The shape of the tire is totalyy different and it take forever to warm up. Even when it does too much sliding. Not sticky at all. Girlfriend riding with me could even tell the difference. Too squirrley, doesn't feel stable through corners at all. Just thought I would give my opinion. I ride pretty hard too. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sparky |
At 6830 miles I switched to Sportecs. They've worked out extremely well on my S1 & S3 so I'm hoping for no less with the Firebolt. A Motorcycle Consumer News Feb 2002 review of the Sportec explained how their strategically placed steel belts minimize "standup". The tire flattens more against the road thus keeping the centerpoint of the contact patch closer to the steering axis, reducing the leverage that causes standup. How this works in the real world on a bike the mags criticized for heavy steering and a greater tendency to stand up under braking than other sport bikes is amazing. With about 200 miles on them I've tested braking in turns and the bike slows with only the slightest inclination to stand up, but nowhere near as pronounced as the stockers. So far so good. Overall they steer well, absorb small surface irregularities smoothly & warm up quick. However it feels like they might be a little heavier than what I was lead to believe. On roads that have what I describe as gravity dips, i.e. nearly invisible depressions, the bike seems to bounce more than I remember with the stockers. Oh well, I still need to optimize air pressures and suspension settings for the best compromise for my weight (145), just like I did with the S1. Thanks for all your inputs. Keep 'em coming, Sparky |
