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Captainplanet
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 07:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, my firebolt has 2200 miles on it and today the speedometer was working this morning on the way to work and not working on the way home. It still does the sweep when you turn the key on. I checked all the fuses and they are all ok. Both the speedometer and all odometer functions have stopped (the odometer is not advancing). Any suggestions? I am taking it to the dealer for the sidestand replacement Friday, so I will probably just get them to fix it too, unless someone knows an easy fix that is quick to do myself.

Jeff
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have the same problem. Mine broke about a week ago. It just stopped working while I was riding down the interstate. I am bringing it in to get fixed under warranty. I am guessing that it is some sort of vehicle speed sensor. At least I can put some free miles on it.
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Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Guys,
They probably used the same speedo sensor they've been using all along, and it is prone to failure. Some think (I'm one of them) that this is caused by voltage spikes, and have installed a filter between the sensor and the power wire.

I haven't really noticed what the XB9x sensor looks like, but the Blast sensor looks the same as the tubers. I'll bet it's the same part.

I lost one a few months into ownership in 99, (sensor open), another one a few months ago (shorted, blowing main fuse...sucked) That one opened a week or so later. I put the filter on the new one. Some people have been running the filter for a few years and have not lost the sensor.

Has anyone lost a sensor with the filter installed?
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Timbo
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hmmm,
That's interesting. Be sure to let us know how it turns out.

I would be concerned about fuel consumption. Without the digital "reserve" how do you know when you are getting low?

Timbo
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Noface
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mine did the same thing at 3600 miles.

It would still go thru the self test, but no indication of speed. Worked fine on the way to work, and didn't on the way home.

Mine turned out to be the speed sensor (mounted on top of tranny) and fixed under warranty.

The dealer didn't have it in stock, it's different part number than the tube framed Buells. Only took about a week to get one, and about 15 minutes to swap it out.

Jody S.
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Timbo
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Jeff and Joey,
TFM states that if the needles do the sweep and the instruments are lit, that you need to check the speed sensor. The speed sensor is located just above the front sprocket on the tranny and plugs into a deutsch connector under the sprocket cover. To first check the connections, and then it decribes how to test it with a speedo tester to see if it's working.

If the connections are good you probably need a new sensor.

Timbo
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Ar15ls1
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 09:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Timbo, I will try that. I have the sprocket cover off right now because I am waiting for my Latus muffler to arrive and have taken the old muffler off.
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Captainplanet
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 09:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just checked all the connectors. They all seem ok. There are several connectors in the area so the speedo sensor connector is a bit hard to get to. I also pulled the sensor out and wiped it clean. It appears to be magnetic in nature. No moving parts. No luck after wiping it clean and checking the connector. It does appear to be the same one as the one on my wife's 2002 blast.
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Ray_Maines
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And some among us would say this is a "New" motor. Couldn't possibly be related to the old 1203 Sportster lump. A shorter stroke makes it all new. All different.

All Bull S**t, says the cynic.

Is it asking to f**ing much to have a speedometer that works? Who knows, who cares, if it’s accurate. Does it work? Does the blinkity blank needle move from left to right as speed increases?

I thought we were past the Kit Bike stage. Erik must be contemplating suicide.

BTW, the new Suzuki SV1000 retails for $8,000 USD.
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Fasteddieb
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ray,

Any mechanical device can have imperfections. Suzukis (and Hondas, Kawasakis Yamahas) all have their own problems. MY BMW airhead GS had it's (mechanical) speedo replaced under warranty, together with a diode board. I've now had the bike 12 years. It breaks - I fix it - no problem.

I wouldn't blink if I had a speedo sensor failure, esp. under warranty. I'd just get it fixed, or fix it myself.

Shit happens! Get over it!!
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Timbo
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Uh...Ray,
You feelin' particullarly ornery tonight?

I doubt Erik is ready to go full thermonuclear due to a couple failed sensors. He might give a scrotum snap kick to some offshore parts supplier, but I doubt he feels it's time to cash in his chips.

BTW, didn't you just get a Trumpet? Why not the SV1000? I wonder if a sensor has ever failed on one of those?

Timbo
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ray,
Getting a little overheated over a speedo sensor aren't you?


Buell,
Please fix the speedo sensor problem. It is obviously a systemic problem.
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Rick_A
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 11:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Woah...damn...a speedo sensor!...sell the bike...it's no good! Damn that fool Erik! WTF was he thinking???
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Mikej
Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Let's wait and see if the new Sportster starts to have speedo sensor problems as well. The tube-frame sensor p/n's were superceded to some new number or a number with an added character if I remember right. The biggest problem with getting them fixed under warranty is that it's a fairly major hassle to make an appointment, take the bike in and drop it off and find a ride home, then go back in a day or more to pick it up again, all for what is usually a 15-45 minute job. It takes me longer to drive to the shop than it does to fix it at home which is why I never had any of mine on the M2 fixed under warranty, the last one I changed in Suburban's parking lot at lunch many many months ago. And I still think there is more to the story on why Buells seem to show more sensor failures than Sportsters, but I have no comparitive data to base that on except that the few people I know with Sportsters have never had one fail. Form your own opinions. ;)
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Chainsaw
Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

03 XB9R: 4,600 miles, speedo working
01 XL883C: 20,250 miles, speedo working

I do know a guy locally with an XB with about 3k on it, he has had a speedo failure.
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Jst
Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 09:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mikej,
You ought to see the postings on the mail group at Sportster.org. Buells have nothing on Sportsters when it comes to speedo sensor failures.
JT
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Mikej
Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 02:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I figured it may have something to do with my lack of information. That probably explains why so many dealers are oftern out of stock of those sensors.
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Timbo
Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mikej,
When my '98 1200S Sportster was new I had one sensor go out and two speedos fail within two months time. By the time they fixed it the third time H-D had a new supplier and replaced both the speedo *and* the tach so they would match (the newer style had a different face on it). I thought that was cool of them, it never went out again. BTW, the third fix took two and a half months before the parts were available. So it does happen elsewhere. Speedo or no, I still rode the #$%& out of it and loved it!

Timbo
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

6k+ miles on my "filtered" sensor and no problems. This is about twice as long as my best previous one lasted on my Cyclone, with the worst of them lasting only about 2 tanks of gas.

An annony posting made it clear here that many of the repeat failures were due to tight cable tie installation, and I believe them.

OUR postings here made it clear that many others of the failures were NOT due to this. I wish they had believed us.

Schematics and part numbers in the knowledge vault. It seems to follow particular bikes, so if you don't have a problem I would leave it alone, but if you do blow one I would put the filter in when you replace it. No big deal.

Bill
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Captainplanet
Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I took my bike in to the dealer this morning about 10am. I picked it up a 2pm with a new speedo sensor installed. Speedometer and Odometer are back to normal now. Covered under warranty, no cost to me. Thanks to Austin Buell for great service again.
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Johnypebs
Posted on Friday, December 20, 2002 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The sensor on my M2 failed at 127 miles. The replacement is still OK 2000 miles later, but with an in-line anti surge device fitted and an S&S re-calibrator too. (lowered gearing) I got the bits from Adrenalin Moto, England. Delighted that the parts are available, but truly scunnered that the factory have not engineered the problem out. C'mon, you guys landed on the moon in 1969. Is it really that hard to make a speedo sensor that doesn't require £125 spent on after market parts to make it reliable? Someone wants shot with a ball of their own sh*te for this.
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Scw442000
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

xb9r 7k miles speedo working
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Cyclone1
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm thinking that I've seen a Buell Bulletin about an "updated" sensor...won't be back to work till the second though to check for sure. Any one of you other tech's remember seeing that?

Frank
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Hans
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 07:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don`t need a speedo.
If your arms become elongated: You ride fast enough.
If that becomes permanent: You ride too fast.
If that happens and you are trapped you can argue that your speedo read out was much, much lower.
If you need a drink, you refill the bike.
When you had enough drinks you change oil.
When it rattles, you adjust the primary tensioner.
When you sell the bike..: That would be a stupid thing to do, so don`t.
Hans
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Cyclone1
Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Amen, brother Hans :D

Frank
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Sparky
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Speedo failed at 11,589 miles today, a few days short of 1 yr ownership. Taking it in this Thursday for wheel bearings, might as well have them do the speedo sensor too.

Now let's see. I think freeway speeds were something like,
rpm = approx mph
4500 = 78
4000 = 70
3500 = 60

I suspect that with the speedo not working, the low fuel light should still work as always and the Reserve Tripmeter should switch but not count up. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks,
Sparky
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Might want to pull it out and wipe the metal filings off it and see if it comes back, sometimes (not often) they do.

It is my understanding that the 9R runs at 12 volts, while the 9S runs at 5 volts.

If you are still under warranty, make them replace it. If it is coming out of your own pocket, then you ought to add a voltage regulator / filter to the replacement unit. I have beat the topic to death in the knowledge vault, schematics are posted, simple builds, $5 or less worth of parts. If you are not comfortable with a soldering iron, email me offline and I will see that you are taken care of.

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Steve_a
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My understanding that the problem has been fixed with an improved sensor and improved voltage regulation. The full combination started going into the XB9S from production start, and all later XB models.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 09:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here is our current set of assumptions.

1) The power lead to the sensor (the red wire) should be regulated at 5 volts.

2) The source of the damage is transient based, so a in inline coil and inline diode as well as recommended capacitors for our voltage regulator (again on the red positive wire) is worthwhile.

3) Ground is ground, and requires no additional filtering.

4) The driver for the positive voltage is capable of delivering enough current to run an LED in addition to the sensor.

5) The signal line (white wire) does not need any filtering, current limiting, or signal conditioning.

6) It probably only makes sense to add the filter *after* the current sensor blows, so it does not really matter what part of the old ones failed. For this discussion we can assume that the filter will *always* be added to a new filter from dealer stock.

If any of these assumptions are not valid, we can address them, but the solution gets more expensive and a LOT more complicated. Some lurker *please* let me know so we can fix these things right the first time. Feel free to email me offline, post anon, or whatever it takes. Anything short of a court order, and I don't know nutin about anything. If they are right, or just close enough, everybody just keep their mouth shut. Diodes and inductors are cheap, save your "backdoor corporate karma" for something more important if they aren't necessary but are harmless.

So unless I hear otherwise, the current solution (based on the above solutions) will stand. I will change them only under one of the following conditions:

1) Some lurker with credibility gives me information to the contrary.
2) I feel like changing them based on my own personal experience or further analysis.
3) Somebody loans me a battery powered portable light weight storage O'scope for several months to hook to my bike and drive all over.

If I do change it, and anyone wants to know if I changed it for reason one or two, I will be happy to forward them the address of my lawyer. Good luck ;)

Thanks for the update Steve.
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 11:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sparky,
You should definitely use the regulator on your new sensor. When it blows again, it won't be under warranty any longer. $50 down the drain. The regulator is cheap and easy.
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Captainplanet
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sparky,

I have had two go now. I got the upgraded part last time. Your low fuel light will work fine. Nothing on the odometer will work. So when the light comes on, no counting miles.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The upgraded buell part won't hurt, but it probably won't make the problem go away either. The filter Hootowl is referring too probably *will* make the problem go away.
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Sparky
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info everyone.

So, has the need for a homebrew fix been superseded by an improved sensor & voltage regulation combo or should an additional regulator/filter still be installed?

Maybe the answer is to see if any XB9S's experience failures. If none surface, then a big thumbs up to the Factory is in order.

And a big Thank You, Reep, for staying on top of this thing,
Sparky
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Reepicheep
Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The 9s's are probably fine, they are regulated at 5v from the factory. The 9r's need the homebrew regulator, they are at 12v like the tube framers.

The updated sensor is a better part, better wiring, better strain relief, and probably better potting, but will still die on a regular basis.

I don't think we have heard of any 9s's eating sensors yet.

So you definitely want the filter for your XB9R after it tastes speedo flesh for the first time. Detailed schematics in the knowledge vault, all parts available at your local Radio Shack (this was on purpose), not a bad build.

If you don't feel comfortable soldering or building up the filter, email me, it is really not a big deal if you have done it a few times and have the tools and parts laying around.
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Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"after it tastes speedo flesh"

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