| Author | Message | ||
     Hippo888 |
It's snowing here again, so test rides are out of my future until next year. I was wondering if anyone has had back-to-back experience between the long wheelbase XB's (X, Ss) and the short wheelbase XB's (everything else). I had an XB9S and I never got completely used to the handling. The bike always seemed to push back when turning and want to straighten itself. I've read in Sport Rider magazine that the new long wheelbase XB's are much better in this regard -- that the steering is much more neutral. Does anyone have any experience riding the two different wheelbase bikes? According to the spec-sheet, the short wheelbase bikes have incredibly aggressive geometry numbers (rake, trail, wheelbase). The long wheel base bikes look a lot like the modern crop of more relaxed sportbike geometries (in rake and wheelbase, although the Buell's carry much more trail). Of course, I'd think according to the specs, the shortwheelbase bikes would have incredible turn-in and effortless steering, but I experienced the exact opposite -- I always needed constant bar pressure to hold a line. Now, Sport Rider says that the more relaxed long-wheelbase bikes turn-in easier and require less bar pressure. Could someone explain this to me because it seems to contradict the geometry numbers? "..the Long (XB12Ss) is a pleasant deviation from the other XB's we've sampled. The relaxed geometry eliminates much of the of the funky handling we've notied in our Firebolt tests, yet steering is still quite light and the Long flips from side to side quite easily. Only at moderate to extreme lean angles did the Lightning require extra effort on the inside handlbar to hold a line (a typical XB trait), and it doesn't fight its rider near as much." - Sport Rider Magazine, Dec. 2005 (Message edited by hippo888 on November 30, 2005) | ||
| Cochise |
I for one are/am an idiot, so I don't know geometry, but I can give you an answer that won't make your head spin. Some guys are so smart that when they give you an answer you don't remember what the question was. Wait, what WAS the question? Ok, I first owned an '01 X1, wrecked it, then bought an '04 XB12R. If I would have been on the 12R, I never would have wrecked because I had so much time to make corrections because the bike was so short and effortless. I have ridden all of the XB12 bikes, R, S, Ss, and X. The R and the S were quite different to me. The R would go where the front wheel pointed, but the S you could flick easier, which may mean less stability. I could ride the R, much harder than I could ride the S. Now on tho the Ss. I can ride the Ss, much harder than I could run the R, maybe because of experience, but I think it was the difference in the bikes. I went from riding my R in the 65-70 range on a certain road that I like. On the Ss, on the same road, it was 70-85'ish. The other good thing about the 54" bikes is, I can ride the bike twice as long as I could the 52"er without my arse hoitin'. Hopefully this answers your question well enough for you. Plus the big bikes have gel in their seats!! | ||
| Old_man |
I solved the handling problems on my XB9S by replacing the stock tires with Metzler Sportec. It now turns easier and holds its line and doesn't stand up with brake application. | ||
| Nuerburgringer |
Indeed the Sportecs'll do the trick. Pirellis'll getcha there too. You need tires with a more neutral profile. Why Buell didn't use such tires in the first place is anybody's guess. | ||
| Kootenay |
Like the last two posters, I'll recommend better tires as being the "fix" (I understand Buell "didn't use such tires in the first place" because of a contractual agreement making Dunlop H-D's exclusive tire supplier--apparently they could offer the Pirelli Scorpions on the CityX because Dunlop couldn't offer an "equivalent" tire...). The short-wheelbase XBs are highly sensitive to tire profile and pressure, suspension setup, and rider position--the Firebolt seems to have heavier steering than the Lightning largely due to the fact the Bolt riding position puts more weight on the front wheel. I've read at least one journalist who changed his mind about Buells after riding a Firebolt that had been properly set up for him (and also had non-Dunlop tires mounted). I find the Firebolt's handing requires some rider "involvement," but I'd never describe it as "fighting the rider"--to the contrary, in fact. | ||
| Surveyor |
If you are the type of rider who carries braking deep into a corner (typical of a track rider) then I agree the XB is reluctant to turn under braking. I also agree that the XB responds well to a radical off the seat riding style. I couldn't agree more about the tyres - decent tyres transform the bike. I have tried lowering the front ride height slightly and while this speeds up the turning (under braking) it tends to become a little unstable at the front end. | ||
| Opto |
Hippo, the Uly with the same long wheelbase as the Ss has a more relaxed neutral feel than a short Lightning, if that's what you are looking for then maybe the long wheelbase Ss is the one for you. If you're fighting with the bike then something is wrong, the Buells I've owned and ridden are extremely light to steer and require minimum input on the bars compared to other bikes I've ridden. Edit - It's interesting to read your comments Cochise as I've been wondering if the Uly is faster or slower in the twisties, it feels a lot smoother which could translate to faster, and I haven't pushed it hard yet but am really looking forward to it. The Uly stock tyres stick really well, there is still a little bit of standup under brakes but you wouldn't notice it unless you were looking for it. I'm beginning to feel that the short wheelbase bikes are real rider's bikes, and the longer wheelbase bikes are for "retired" real riders, and all the normal good riders can ride either bike, hope I don't offend here  (Message edited by opto on December 02, 2005) | ||
| Darrell_ks |
I am a newbie rider (less than 1 year) so I may have been doing something wrong, but the 9SX and the 12S seemed to respond quicker than the 12Ss when I did the test rides. Both of the shorter bikes seemed to respond as much to rider position as they did to handlebar inputs. In fact the CityX felt so responsive that I felt like I could have turned it with just my knees and hips if I hadn't needed to keep my hand on the throttle. The 12Ss was still a very fun bike, but had I not been able to feel comfortable on the Uly, I would have probably purchased the CityX based on my test rides. | ||
| Slaughter |
You really cannot make a decision based on handling of a bike until you AT LEAST properly set the preload for your weight on both ends and then have somebody set the damping. Unfortunately, this NEVER happens on a test ride. Often the people running the test rides are just sales folks with no experience in setting up a bike - which is unfortunate because even with preload properly set, just 1/4 turn in compression or rebound damping on either end can make a huge difference in how it feels under braking, turning, accelerating. | ||
| Ralf |
New guy here too, still learning sport bike basics. I thought my 12R had relatively heavy steering. One of the sport bike magazine websites has their "tips on riding skills" articles on line, and over the long weekend I read them all. I notice that my R doesn't always feel heavy. What I read was proper corner entry technique is to brake early, then crack the throttle to "unload the front end and make the bike easier to turn in". I also learned on my own that if I shift weight back and don't put a lot of my weight on my wrists, or even move my hands out a little to get a little more leverage, the steering feels lighter. A more experienced sport rider told me that I needed to learn to squeeze the bike with my legs to enable me to lighten my grip and weight on the bars. Most of the "heavy steering" is me learning how to ride. I go into the turns too fast because I'm a go fast in a straight line guy to begin with, and I am either on the brake or letting off the gas hard with my weight on the bars because I am "chicken" to go into a turn fast and so the steering is heavy. Number one thing I learned in the series of articles, is if you think you are going to fast, don't do anything stupid, TRUST the BIKE. The comment was modern bikes handle much better than most riders will ever use. I psyche my self up to let off the brake, use the throttle to lighten up the bike and just tell my self "trust the bike" | ||
| Rackman |
I agree with Slaughter, I still only have a few hundred miles on my SS, but the test ride and the ride home from the dealership was with factory original settings, I came home and immediately adjusted and it was amazing the difference in the ride and handling.... | ||
| Spike |
After some 40k miles on Buells, here is my honest answer: Sport Rider = the suck Part of the problem is that the short wheelbase makes the XBs hyper-sensitive to changes in tire selection, suspension, and tire pressure. The other part of the problem is that apparently being employed by Sport Rider makes one hyper-sensitive to making stupid statements about motorcycles. Stop reading their mindless garbage, slap on some decent tires and go ride. | ||
| M1combat |
I agree with most everything said here (including Spykes roundhouse to the teeth of Sport Rider...). Put Metzeler Sportecs or Pirelli Diablos on the bike. Others have had good success with other tires, but those are the two that I've tried and they work WORLDS better than the D207's. That said, the 207's seemed to work well if you hang WAY off the bike. They did heat up too quickly though and got a little squirmy (and the DON'T work well in the wet). The Metzelers will do that too, but you have to really work them for a good distance before it happens. It eliminates a lot (if not all) of the pressure you need to keep the bike on it's ear and when you hang off it eliminates the rest. If you're tire pressures are a pound or two off though, it comes back and does feel a bit unstable. Check tire pressure often. On the XB you simply MUST set the suspension up for you. Notice the period. The XB is VERY sensitive to tire pressure. I run 34F/36R with my Metzelers. I think I may need to drop the front 1/2 pound though. I get some rubber tearing if I don't take the time to warm the tire correctly before I hit the mountains (which are about 100yds from my driveway). The XB responds VERY positively to proper riding technique. It will scrape the pegs w/o hanging off though. It'll just do it at a MUCH higher rate of speed if you hang off . The XB's are deceptively fast. All that said... I've not ridden the new longer versions. | ||
| Ortegakid |
I can attest to the incredible difference whence properly set up, when I first rode the bolt,it was ok,(but stock settings), after monthes of set-up and experimentation, it was as good as a street bike EVER gets. And I mean GOOD,TZ250 good,rs125 good. The guys back home asked for help in dialing thiers in and all stated vast improvements since.Take your time and this bike can be one of the best, no need for more wheelbase! | ||
| Old_man |
I have ridden bikes for over 40 yrs. Many years as a motorcycle police officer, the first a kickstart Harley with foot clutch and hand shift. I have ridden just about every Japanese and European bike. I rode dirt bikes, owned a CZ 250 Enduro. Beside my XB9S I still Have a Suzuki 750 (Water Buffalo). They all Handled pretty well, although the CZ was a bit skiddish,turned on a dime, but could toss you if going too fast on rough ground. I bought my Buell because The engineering impressed me. I could only describe the handling as evil. When riding home from the dealer on a steep downhill with a decreasing radius bend with a red ligh at the end, I touched the brakes and the bike immediately lost its lean and stood straight up.(causing a real pucker) No manner of adjustment to the suspension would prevent this. It seemed to me the tires must be the culprit. The bike resisted turning and was not easy to put in an intended line on the road. I surmise the tire design was biased toward strait line stability. Western PA is nothing but hills and curves. You should be able to ride without much thought and effort negotiating these curves. I immediately removed the new stock tires and replaced them with a set of Metzlers. It changed the bike, I now have total control and no need to wrestle around curves. I can apply brakes in the middle of a curve withoust disturbing the bikes attitude. It is now a joy, as it should have been from the beginning. I have not ridden the newer models but I understand a tire change has been made. I hope this has been corrected. | ||
| Opto |
Well said Old_man, what you say is so true. I got a pucker once and changed front tyre only, did the job. The only other thing I've noticed about the suspension is that if the rear is set up too hard it will try to overtake the front if you hit some really rough stuff, I think this may explain some strange get-offs, usually pretty hard ones. The way I see it is if you have 4 1/2" of travel in the rear wheel and you only ever use 3" of it, then you may as well have gone out and bought a bike with 3" rear travel, what's the point? I know some like it set up firm but you can do that with the damping and still use up the 4 1/2" occasionally. |
