| Author | Message | ||
     Builtbyted |
I need advice. I just returned from an 1900 mile trip on my XB12S. Halfway through the trip the engine suddenly sounded extra loud to me (I initially thought something was hitting against the wheel) and I stopped to check things out. There was absolutely nothing on the dipstick. I rode to the closest Buell dealer in North Carolina to have them top it off for me. It took over 2 quarts to fill it up! I need help figuring out what happened. To be honest, that was the first time I checked the oil since buying the bike. I purchased the bike last spring. At 1,000 miles I called the dealer for my "free service." They were backed up and didn't fit it in until 1,500 miles. I put about another 1,000 miles on before the trip. While on the trip I heard the noise at 3,700 miles and that's when the two quarts were added. Now, my fear is that my servicing dealer didn't put enough oil in. But a whole 2 quarts seems crazy low. There is no sign of leakage and no smoke from the exhaust. My questions are: 1. What kind of damage may have been done to the bike if it ran 2 quarts low for 2,200 miles? My mind is telling me that I'm hearing all sorts of things now, but I'm really not sure if it sounds any different than it is supposed to sound. 2. Are there any other explanations for where the oil went other than that my dealer didn't put enough in in the first place? 3. What should I say when I call my dealer to tell him about this? Thanks for any advice. | ||
| Typeone |
I don't have any answers for you on damage, I'm sure more will chime in, but... my 12 loves to consume oil. i check before every ride (manual says to check at every gas fill-up i believe) and it always needs a little topping off. every time. i haven't calculated how many oz. i put in each top off but i've been meaning to so i can understand what my consumption level is. | ||
| Builtbyted |
curious. i'll have to pull the manual out and check that. the dealer who topped it off for me said that it shouldn't use any. | ||
| Whodom |
Ted, to answer your questions: 1. Major damage. The ~0.5 quarts of oil that would be left would be absolutely fried by now. If the oil level was low enough that you could hear a change in the engine sound, that is BAD. 2. Sure- new engines, particularly air-cooled engines, can use significant amounts of oil. 2 quarts in 2,200 miles is high, but not totally unreasonable, especially if the engine wasn't broken in properly. Maybe the dealer left it ~0.5 quarts low and you used 1.5. 3. Since you admit you didn't check the oil in 2,200 miles, I'd say you don't have a leg to stand on and there's no sense in bringing it up to your dealer. Ride on, keep a cell phone with you, start saving for a rebuild, and pray hard. Man, that is just looney riding anything that long without checking the oil level. Get paper and pencil and write 1,000 times: I WILL CHECK MY OIL LEVEL AT EVERY FILL UP. | ||
| Cruisin |
Then I guess it's a bad thing that the only time I check my oil is right after I change it to make sure I put enough in? 7500 miles on the bike so far. | ||
| Builtbyted |
Yup, didn't check the oil in 2,200 miles. This is my first non-Japanese bikes. I am just not in the habit of checking the oil. And I'm also used to the window where you can see if your oil is low without much effort at all. I'm wondering why my oil light didn't come on? | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Until my engine hit about the 3000 mile mark, I did need to top it off every other fill up. I think in total she took about a half quart over that 3000 miles. SINCE then I can come real close to pulling out what I am putting in. Since I pour the old into the now empty bottles to take to the recycler, it makes it easy to keep track of useage. I am usually off by about 1oz-1.5oz which is a fair guess as to what is still held in the lines and such. A couple fo other riders have mentioned excessive oil use for the first 3000-3500 miles, but also religiously checked their oil and stayed on top of it. Its always good practice for any new vehicle to check the oil often until your certain the rings have set and sealed properly. | ||
| Whodom |
Ted, the oil light only comes on when the oil pressure is low, not when the oil level is low. The deal is to check the oil level often at least until the engine is thoroughly broken in and you learn how much your engine uses under normal use. I'd suggest you change the oil that's in there ASAP since that 1/2 quart that was left probably got thoroughly cooked if the bike was run that way for any length of time. The oil does a LOT of the engine cooling in these bikes so having the proper amount of oil in there is pretty critical. | ||
| Perry |
My XB12Scg used to use almost 2 ounces with every tank of gas (130 miles). I now have about 3600 miles on it and it seems to be using much less now. Obviously you really need to check it. Your oil light is really an oil pressure sensor. So long as the oil pump is pumping oil and there is pressure in the line to the engine the light will not go on. I don't think it is certain that you have engine damage. Although the reservoir was low, there was still oil pumping through your engine the whole time. The question is whether the remaining oil was fried through thermal breakdown etc. and was no longer capable of adequately lubricating. If you used synthetic, I would bet money you are just fine. If you didn't you may still be just fine, depending on how you ride, the weather, etc. Technically, even dino oil will withstand the highest temperatures of the buell engine, at least for a good while. Remember, it goes into skip-spark mode if it gets too hot, and you didn't describe that ever happening so I suspect the temperature hasn't been too extreme in spite of the air-cooled engine. The bummer is really not knowing. Did it sound okay after filling it up again? The changed sound seems a bad sign. At a minimum, change the oil (all of it!) ASAP. The remaining oil may indeed be significantly compromised. The nearest Buell dealer? You must be in one of those states that has more than one!  | ||
| Builtbyted |
thanks perry. i have a hunch this may have just been a close call, but will monitor things closely. i need a new tire, so will change the oil again when i swap the tire this week. | ||
| Whodom |
Ted, one way to get an idea would be to cut the old oil filter apart when you change your oil. As long as you don't find a lot of metal in it, you should be OK. Good luck... | ||
| Kootenay |
I can't comment on damage (although my guess would be you're OK, if you never lost pressure). For sure, change oil ASAP. The noise you heard may have been your valvetrain getting slack--the XBs use hydraulic valve lifters, which require oil pressure to maintain clearance (without sufficient pressure, they can pack down and the extra clearance is audible). After the experience I had with the dealer I purchased from--my oil was overfull by over half a liter--I'd never trust anyone but myself to check my levels (BTW, overfull is bad too--it can blow seals, etc). However, I don't check it at every gas stop, but I do check pretty regularly, and I've found my levels to be pretty stable. I gotta say, though, that like Ted, I kinda miss having an oil level window--not only is the dipstick on my XB located right where all the road crap from the tire gets flung, but it can be a pain to pull. Also, I've never owned any other vehicle that has to be hot to check the oil--I prefer to check the oil before I start it up! | ||
| Nutsosane |
Checked oil after @10 minute ride found it "frothy" and the level indiscernable. Rode home same distance and let bike cool 10 minutes. Oil level is now barely at the lower ADD line. 2004 XB with @5800 miles. Changed oil 1500 miles ago and keep the level topped up. Except for today obviously. Well off to change oil and start from zero again. Oil check EVERY fill up from now on. NUTS | ||
| Midknyte |
Does it sound like someone snuck a wooden marble into your transmission? "Another" thing to know that you need to check, especially during the breakin 5000 miles, is the primary chain. This can be a disconcerting noise and one that will clear up once you've had or done the adjustment. Note - Do not over tighten the primary chain. There should be a chain's width of slack in it - the engine and drivetrain expands/streches once/when warmed up and running. | ||
| Churms |
IF I remember correctly.....I was told to take the bike for a ride, getting it nice and warmed up, then checking the level and adding as needed. Is that correct? Also have a question.... When using synthetic oil....how many miles between oil changes? | ||
| Midknyte |
yes. should be checked when warmed up | ||
| Builtbyted |
midknyte - the "wooden marble" is a good way to describe a sound, i know exactly what you mean. that, however, was not quite the sound i heard. i had my saddle bags on the bike and a backpack bungeed on the passenger seat. at first i thought a bungee had come loose and was hitting the tire... problem is, i only heard the sound when i got into heavy traffic and slowed down... it isn't out of the question that it was coming from another vehicle around me. i stopped immediately and checked the oil, then went into a restaurant and ate. when i started the bike back up, there was no sound and i didn't hear anything between the restaurant and the dealer. at this point, i'm not super concerned about the sound... but am very cautious. you better believe, however, that i am going to cut the filter open and have a look. thanks whodom for that idea. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My 05 9sx has a pretty good appetite for oil as well. It can go from the top mark to the bottom mark in two to four tanks of gas. I think that works out to a quart of oil every 1000 miles. I am not thrilled about this, but it is within "spec". The biggest hassle is that I have to get or pack oil for a long days ride (say 500 miles). Not a crises, but annoying. This is on a bike that was carefully broken in, and has 8000+ miles on it. It has (AFAIK) done it since new. I didn't start keeping close records until about 5000, I did oil changes at 500 and 1000 miles, so it was invisible, and from 1000 to 5000 it was still in break in, so I just kept topping it off without tracking it carefully. The one thing I did *not* try yet was to run the real 20w50 oil in it. The oil that i am running now is Castrol 5w50 full synthetic. In theory, this should be better for the engine all around then 20w50, but the problem seems to be worse with this oil then it was with the 15w50 mobil 1 I used on the previous change. So next change will be honest 20w50, or maybe 15w50 (as it will be winter anyway and cold in Ohio) and I will see if that does any better. I also ditched the Race ECM and aftermarket exhaust (for less noise and better fuel economy), so I will see if that somehow is having an effect. I think the "phantom noises" are a huge factor as well. Just last week, I rolled into a gas station not 200 miles after last topping off my oil to the upper mark, not a care in the world. A guy in a pickup drove up and said "that thing is tapping like crazy, you are low on oil". I checked it, and while it was getting close to the lower mark, it was fine for the 50 miles I had left to go before I got home and would normally be top it off anyway. Before then, I heard nothing unusual at all. After he mentioned it, I heard all sorts of mytery sounds from everywhere, real or imagined. My inner airbox is cut way open, so the valve noise goes right to open air, so I hear *everything*. And so does everyone else. When the bike is cold, no taps at all, but once it gets good and warmed up, it gets all sorts of crazy valve noise. The XB9 demo bikes I rode were the same way. I don't know about everyone else here... I just chalk it up to a downdraft velocity stack with very aggressive cams and virtually no intake sound dampening. Maybe I am in denial. My solution?  Keep the oil level up, and put 20,000 miles on it before my 2 year warranty expires If it makes it that far with no discernable problems, it can't be that broken... As stated above, yours is probably the best argument to date here on this site for for full synthetic oil as well. It's a dry sump engine, so as long as there is even a little oil in the system, it will keep lubricating, and as stated above heat breakdown becomes your major enemy. Synthetic will survive much longer in impossible situations. My Saturn SC2 does the same thing. It has done it for more the 50,000 miles now (140,000 miles on the engine). No other problems, just keep adding oil... I need to find a good oil container to fit in the lightning tail bag. Something that will hold about half a quart, dispense it neatly (maybe those cardboard disposable funnels), and seal back up. Even if I don't use it on my bike, somebody somewhere that I come across while riding will need it. | ||
| Dtx |
Reep, Everything you just described sounds like my 05 XB9SX too. You are not alone. I am not real concerned, however, because the bike runs GREAT and everybody seems to tell me this is normal. It ticks, it consumes oil...I have learned to live with it cause it is a bad azz bike! (and apparently it is normal) | ||
| Buellin_ri |
builtbyted- No oil light came on?! That would be my concern. I have had this happen to me not 2 qrts low but a qrt low in about 3k miles. Good luck and keep an eye on your earl. | ||
| Fullpower |
"To be honest, that was the first time I checked the oil since buying the bike" My advice: monitor the oil level a bit more frequently. i agree with you that a sight glass would be a nice feature. i notice Ducati, Honda, Triumph and possibly some other manufacturers are incorporating this feature. | ||
| Brad_buell |
My '03 9S uses oil at a regular pace. I check it frequently. I also ADD oil frequently as well. Not a big deal once you get use to it, though. I'm just approaching 3K, so maybe it will slow down on the oil consumption. Side note: I was also accustomed to my low oil consumption Suzuki. When I bought my Buell nobody told me that they consumed so much oil. The first time I checked my oil at 750 miles I was shocked, and concerned, at how low it got. | ||
| Jlnance |
Also have a question.... When using synthetic oil....how many miles between oil changes? It will be interesting to see how many answers you get to this question.  Amsoil guarantees that you can double the recomended oil change interval if you use their oil. So that would be 10k miles or 15k if you have a Uly. Given that you have other items to service every 2500 miles, I'm not sure it makes much sense not to chage the oil when you do them. Getting a better answer to your question is difficult. Everyone "knows" that you're susposed to change the oil every 3k miles, and you'll hear that figure a lot, particulary from Jiffy-Lube. The problem is that that number is passed down as folklore, and even if it was based in fact at some point in time, it never gets adjusted for new oil and engine technology. Then you have the manufactures recomended oil change interval (5k miles for most Buells). And you have oil change intervals from companies like Amsoil and Mobil who make performance oils. Most people publishing numbers, other than the folklore crowd, have some sort of financial stake in the answer. So it's difficult to know. | ||
| Mountainrider |
I have put 1200 miles since changing oil and it is still full and clean. The valve train gets noisy when hot but it does not bother me. Modern people do not like anything that sounds mechanical but being raised in the old days these things are quiet. People come into the Chevy dealership all the time complaining about stuff that is stupid. It has got so bad that the auto companies have even tried to make the fuel injectors quieter. As far as Jap bikes not using oil, the water cooled bikes do not use any. But air cooled engines do. A friend has a 1200 Bandit and he puts oil in it after every ride. I had the Honda 650 motard it used a qt. every weekend. I built the engine and it stayed the same, just liked oil. | ||
| Jlnance |
I was also accustomed to my low oil consumption Suzuki. FWIW, oil consumption is higher in air cooled engines. This is because they operate over a wider temprature range than water cooled engines, so they can't use parts which fit with tight tolerances. | ||
| Whodom |
Ted, one additional item we didn't factor in: the dealer BS quotient. I can't believe a responsible dealer would tell you "it shouldn't use any oil". Did you actually watch the guy put the oil in it? Maybe the guy put 1.1 quarts (enough to require charge you for 2 bottles) of oil in it. They could have also overfilled it (a common problem). Once it's below the bottom of the stick it could be empty or just barely below the bottom of the stick. I'd suggest watching it really closely for the next 1,000 miles or so; maybe you'll find out your bike isn't such an oil-eater after all. | ||
| Sokota |
Lucas Oil Products has a synthetic additive out , I add it at 10 percent ratio to Amsoil 20/50 , really quiets up valve train and no oil consumption in 3K miles . 05 City Cross . Ted since you never lost pressure hopefully engine will just be a little worse for wear, ate dinner then rode off with no oil on the stick, brutal man! (Message edited by sokota on October 18, 2005) | ||
| Cyko_bob |
Well, I will add mi dos centavos. I broke my XB9S in pretty much by the book. I use Mobil 1 15W-50 all the way around...engine and primary. I change the oil at 2500 mile intervals, or close to it. I stick with the 2500 mile intervals because it is easier to remember how many miles I have on the oil and filter, plus I simply want to protect my investment...and I enjoy taking care of my bike(s). I change the primary every 2500 miles too...allows me to check the primary chain and keep fresh oil there...do that especially after finding water in my primary (another story and thread...comes in through the cable adjustment behind the front tire/fender). Bottom line, I never add oil between changes. The oil might go down a little, but it is negligible. I cannot say my Buell is an oil burner. I have rice burners too, and I admit I like the glass window to check the oil, and the dipstick on the Buell seems cheap. I keep telling myself I will get one of those billet dipsticks from Al Lighton at American Motor Sports one of these days! My two cents...Cyko Bob | ||
| Cyko_bob |
Sorry Al...meant to say American Sport Bike  | ||
| Ted |
My 04 xb9s uses 4oz in 400miles. It didnt use any measurable amount til about 4k miles. The warranty is running out so i wanted it checked. The dealer said they have to do an oil change and then 'secure the dipstick so it cant be removed. I'm supposed to ride it 600 miles then they check the level. I know it will be well below the fill mark by then, but they say ride til the oil check light comes on. This is concerning ,re the comments above... besides checking the spark plugs for oil, an easy check is the muffler outlet, if its oily ,(not smokey residue) its got rich exhaust. |
