| Author | Message | ||
     Jandj_davis |
I am absolutely baffled by the shortage of 2004 XB9's. I have been watching the Lightning and Firebolt auctions on e-bay, have scanned through the classifieds here more than once, watch cycletrader.com, etc. There are absolutely NONE. Is this because 04 was the best year for them and no-one is selling, or is it because the production numbers for the 9's are so much lower than the 12's? The shortage is amazing to me. There is no end of available XB12's, in both an 'S' and an 'R', but no xb9's in either configuration. If anyone has any insight into this interesting phenomenon, I would love to hear it. Josh D. Cedar Rapids, IA | ||
| Johnparts |
ITS BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE SELLING THE 9'S THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANTION THE 9'S DONT SELL AS WELL AS THE TWELVES | ||
| Dana P. |
You are correct that the 9's production numbers were low in 04. | ||
| Oneway |
i rode both and could not see paying more for a 12 with no real performance gain, give me the nine any day | ||
| Americanrice |
I agree. I actually prefer the higher redline of the 9. However, being 6'3" I would be interested in a Firebolt Long. If only that were an option. (Message edited by Americanrice on September 23, 2005) | ||
| Buellshyter |
What's with you guys and your redlines? The 12 puts out more hp and torque. I don't see where you get the idea there is no difference in performance. True, it might not be worth the extra couple of grand but then again, many people think Buells are overpriced to begin with. | ||
| Dana P. |
I have both....they are both great motorcycles but the 12 kicks the 9's but. | ||
| New12r |
I have rode both and right now have a 12R and a 9R in my barn, the 12 has a serious performance gain without any question. | ||
| Bruceclay |
I dont think i ever did see an '04 9. the shop i bought at had (and i think still has) '03 9's NIB. | ||
| Americanrice |
I personally didn't make the comment about "no performance gains" but come on, 11 hp and 14 lbs feet of torque is hardy substantial. I'll agree, that the SPECS sure prove that the 12 has an edge over the 9. I personally like the higher redline. I am not sure what the problem is with that. It is just my opinion and preference. Ride what you like. (Message edited by Americanrice on September 24, 2005) | ||
| Davefla |
If you think 11 hp and 14 lbs-ft is "hardly substantial," then I'd like to see your dyno graphs...  | ||
| Buellshyter |
Moto racers kill for an extra horsepower and a few ounces of weight savings. | ||
| Buellshyter |
The 12 reaches peak horsepower at 6800 RPM versus 7500 RPM for the 9. Using your logic, what's an extra 700 RPM? | ||
| Jackbequick |
Using the redline in every gear just because it is there does not make sense, nor does thinking that a higher redline is better. The redline is higher because the reciprocating mass in the crank/piston assemblies is lighter. Their being lighter means that they can turn a little faster without risk of damage to the rods and pins. If you look at a dyno plot, the point where the HP and torque curves intersect or cross is the "sweet spot" for performance without threatening engine life. If the numbers at the sweet spot are higher with a 12 compared to a 9, more power is there, it is that simple. And then you have to learn how to use the power band. If, for example, your engine loses 600 RPM when you shift to a higher gear, then shifting when you are 300 RPM over the sweet spot and picking up the acceleration 300 RPM under the sweet spot keeps the bike accelerating best. Once you're in the highest gear, taking it to the redline makes sense if you want to attain the highest speed possible. A tachometer is a useful instrument for using an engine without damaging it, an accelerometer would provide a better basis for determining shift points. Jack | ||
| Spike |
Just so we're clear, the point where horsepower and torque lines intersect will always be at 5252rpm. Anything else means the dyno chart has been doctored. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Sometimes a great handling bike with less power is more fun to ride than a higher powered bike. I've had both and am currently on a 9. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Sometimes a great handling bike with less power is more fun to ride than a higher powered bike. I've had both and am currently on a 9. | ||
| Rubberdown |
Have I made my point? DOH! | ||
| Fullpower |
jack b: the dyno chart of any rotating machine will have the torque and HP curves intersect at 5250 rpm. ford pinto, YZ250, hayabusa, doesnt matter. has nothing whatsoever to do with any sweaty spot, just arithmetic. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Hmmm. That's sort of spooky. I never noticed that before. Seems like I heard or read what I said some years ago and believed it. I'm also under the impression that the rate of acceleration peaks at that point and then starts to decline. I'm not an engineer or physisist and am not likely to make myself much smarter about the theory on this or why it happens. I guess I'll not say that again. But I seem to remember seeing dyno charts over the years where the curves crossed at other values. Maybe I didn't. I guess this has something to do with the equation "hp = torque in foot pounds x rpm ÷ 5,280" with 5280 being the number of feet in a mile. Jack | ||
| Crazyretard |
There is a 2005 firebolt 9 on ebay right now for 6495. | ||
| Karstenfarley |
By way of a practical application, Skully and I did a roll-on test the other day. Now bear in mind that he has a 9 with an after-market pipe, race ECM, a swiss cheesed AB, and a power commander. I have a very very no frills stock 12. We got side-by-side in 4th gear (about 3500rpm), counted to 3, and pinned the throttle. Initially I pulled away. However, as soon as Skully got into his power band (around 5k I think), all those mods kicked in and I was choking on dust. We tried it again starting in 3rd gear and this time even though I still pulled away first, he reached that mid-range power band much sooner than before and passed me again, but sooner this time. 12s make power lower (sooner) but can run out of gear sooner. 9s make power later (higher) and may have an edge over longer distances. Whichever you choose is simply personal choice. | ||
| Americanrice |
Thank you, those last two sentences in KARSTENFARLEY's post are exactly what I am getting at. Davefla, I don't have any dyno charts but even if I did, I don't see how that would prove whether or not 11 hp is substantial. Lastly, I understand that moto racers would kill for one extra hp but I am not a moto racer. For that matter, most of the people on this board are not motoracers and wouldn't even be able to feel 1 extra hp. I love these little pissing matches that start up over which bikes are better the 9's or the 12's. Neither one is BETTER, they are just DIFFERENT. Ride whichever YOU like! | ||
| Mz_guy |
Yeah, maybe we should have just answered the guy's question. If anyone forgot what the question was, please refer to the first post! (Message edited by mz_guy on September 25, 2005) | ||
| Brupska |
I have ridden both a 9S and a 12R on the track. Both where stock motorcycles. The 9S was easier to ride fast because of the power delivery was smoother or it didn't over power the tires as easy. Now when I got the hang of the 12R it was faster then my 9S that I traded it in for. The only dif. was I had D207 on the 9S and the 12R has D208's. I did do a lot of rear wheel slides when I first started riding the 12R like my old 9S. I also noticed more engine braking when I scared myself by getting my knee down for the first time. LOL. I only let out of the gas a little bit and the rear end on the 12R slid a lot!!! LOL New underwear time!!! I still say a good rider could tell the dif. between the two easy. To each his own. Ride it and have fun!!! Brupska | ||
| Shovelheadwolf |
Am having a gas on my 04 9S. Am a bigger rider (6'5" and 270) that is having a ball pulling the front wheel up whenever I feel like it (except in rush hour.... no wheelies or stoppies in rush hour!) I am used to a 955i Triumph triple and the torque on the 9S is taking a little getting used to. The kid son their 600s can pull away from me but when we hit the twisties... BUHBYE!! | ||
| Pinball |
Did any one say smoother, the 9 is defenatly smoother,the 12 is faster! I rode the xb12s long last weekend at a demo ride and it was great ,especially two up.But I like my 9s better for tight corners and city streets, how about a 9s long? I wonder if the seat frame from the xb12ss will fit ? | ||
| Spatten1 |
I was torn between the two when buying my XB. My X1 had about the same power as the XB12, and I was bummed that the new bikes weren't stronger. The more "revy" feel of the nine won me over. However, I often wish I had the 12 for wheelies, as the nine takes much more work than my X1 did to ride on one wheel. It is satisfying to pass people at the track with 50% of their horsepower, riding a "Harley". As annoyed as I get sometimes that we can't get an American bike that makes competitive power, it is still my favorite bike and I really have no desire to get something else (except a 12 for wheelies). | ||
| Nedwreck |
There are still several XB9's on the floor at H-D Buell of Central MS. S and R versions. I am stopping by there this evening and will take note of models and years. Watch this thread for more info... Bob | ||
| Nedwreck |
The only 2004 XB's are 12's. Both red. One S and one R. There is one 2003 XB9R in blue and several XB9S's including one Low. Bob |
