| Author | Message | ||
     Snackbar64 |
How about if Erik decided to introduce a Limited Edition Firebolt? It would be powered by the most extreme engine and deliver Suzuki Gixxer 1000 Acceleration and performance numbers across the board. Only 200 or so per year would be made. It would be nearly identical to the current Firebolt, but would have an extended swingarm steering damper and other high performance features. I'm not sure what power train would be used to power it. Buell would certainly sell every one of them with an extended waiting list. Now the company could truly say that they offer a bike with enough power and performance for the most demanding rider. This would be similar to the Corvette stock vs. the upgraded ZO6. Who could need more real world performance than what the stock Vette offers. obviously Chevy sees the need to be able to offer a car that can also compete with all of the other exotic sports cars. | ||
| Buellin_ri |
Sign me up. Love to see 100+ rwhp from the factory. They have the screaming eagle for the harleys. | ||
| Stealthxb |
extended swingarm...no thanks! | ||
| Tpoppa |
Since when is an extended swingarm a performance feature? I really don't like when people do that to sportbikes. Why take a machine that was engineered for high-performance handling and neuter it...I don't get it. | ||
| Vonsliek |
i think they mean very small change .. like an inch dude. its not neutered .. just tempered a little .. while it has 250 gp dimensions & geom. it also has a lot of weight & heavy internals .. notice all buell pro thunder & similar series race bikes have modifed & lengthened swingarms & (some of) the 2006 range have same lengthening . albeit in a fuggly way. i think we all confuse a fun, race-LIKE bike w/ a factory race bike for the street. personally i think buell shd copy ktm or ducati a little & make a lighter, revvier vtwin w/ very light internals. big bore, short stroke .. 4 or 5 valves .. proper ram air (& i have other ideas for this i will try) .. roller rockers & better fuelling. doesn't have to be water cooled, but i cannot see why other inovations can't be tried. but i think harley accountancy may neuter too much creativity .. look at 2006 range .. i think the ulyeses - while interesting - is just a safe stab at the supermoto ktm/bmw market .. afterall .. jap motos are another market. if i may be so bold!  | ||
| Aldaytona |
Yeah, that's it. Buell should make a bike equal to the MV Agusta F4 Tamburini, maybe even better, yeah, that's it (after all they got Harley-Davidsons deep pockets). Yeah, they should produce say, oh 300 of them, we should make oh, say 59 available to our brothers across the pond. Should be able to keep the price under, well say, $50,000, yeah, that's it. I know I would order one tonight if I could get a deal on one for under MSRP, you know, for say $8995.00 (but I ain't payin that $240.00 freight bull). Hey maybe I could order one offa E-Bay and bypass all the silly dealership price ripoffs all together, Yeah, that's it!  | ||
| Lowflyer |
I own a Uly and disagree that it is a safe stab at anything. It's a Buell stab. You have to ride one to compare it to the KTM or GS. If you do, you will see that there is no comparison. Not that the Uly is a better bike at all, it just isn't even in the same class. The feel is waaaaay different. It's like comparing a Porche to a Vette and calling the Vette a "safe stab at an sports car." A "safe" Buell would be one with a Honda motor and a cushy Beemer suspension. | ||
| Buellerx |
I think that Buell has taken the Sportster motor as far as it can go and still meet all the requirements for reliability and EPA regs. While Harley can churn out the same bikes year after year and never really upgrade the performance, Buell can not. They will have to come up with something new in the next year or two to stay competitive in the market. Knowing that Buell likes to keep things simple from a functionality standpoint, I don't think they will go with a liquid cooled motor(Too heavy and too much stuff). But they will have to divorce the push rod motors. Maybe some gear driven cams similar to the RC51 (I love that sound) An XB frame with a 128HP V-Twin that does 160+MPH. That would be nice  | ||
| Snackbar64 |
Buellerx, Now that's what I'm talking about. Ducati uses a V-Twin motor in the 999R that makes exceptional power and can hold its own with the current liter bikes out there. This is the direction I am talking about for buell. I just want to see one premium bike like this in limited edition. | ||
| Stretchman |
You don't think they'll use the long frame next year for the R model? Maybe the CG too? Stretch (?) 05 XB12S | ||
| Xlcr |
I keep hearing rumors about a potential FX Long model, with the new frame and swingarm and a version of the FX racing engine using Nikisil bores and a much larger bore and shorter stroke, out to 1350cc, and with dual throttle bodies. That should give about 105-110 RWHP. Throw on a little carbon-fibre to get the weight to 425 lbs wet and call it an RR. That bike would be about as fast as any v-twin out there short of a 999. | ||
| Buellshyter |
What about the Rotax rumor? It's so fun to speculate | ||
| Buellshyter |
I have been thinking the same thing, for quite some time, as Snackbar64. Buell needs a superbike to put them on the map - something every young teenage boy can hang a poster of in their room, even if they can't afford one. Harley sells dreams and it appears to have worked for them. Ducati has the 999R, which at 30K has limited mass appeal but gives them bragging rights to sell their less expensive and capable bikes. I speculate that Mr. Buell has been content to make the bikes as he sees fit and not necessary worry about gross sales. However, in the latest edition of Fuell, there was an article introducing Buell's new CEO, hired by HD. In the article the new CEO went on to say that he and Erik didn't always see eye-to-eye. I found that to be a curious statement, considering the article was basically a fluff piece in a corporate magazine. It's shear speculation on my part but I came away with a sense that the new CEO has ideas of his own, perhaps inspired by those he answers to, that might run counter to what Buell has been, up until this point. It might get interesting or it might get ugly - stay tuned. | ||
| Thepup |
Alot of other sportbikes have liquid cooling and something tells me alot of them are lighter than the Firebolt. | ||
| Xbolt12 |
I would buy it today! I understand that new models can't be leaked out to the public in advance, but it sure would be nice to know what MIGHT be in store. I have the money, but I am getting tired of waiting for more performance. If nothing shows by next July (if I don't give up and change brands to Ducati or MV), I will either build the •••• out of the xb, or throw in the towel-which is something I really do NOT want to do! xbolt12 | ||
| Cochise |
Stealthxb Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 12:52 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- extended swingarm...no thanks! Tpoppa Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 01:03 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since when is an extended swingarm a performance feature? I really don't like when people do that to sportbikes. Why take a machine that was engineered for high-performance handling and neuter it...I don't get it. I'm not trying to start an argument, but an extended swingarm isn't really that bad. I feel that the bikes handling with a longer swingarm does not a chopper's handling make. If my new XB12Ss long handles worse than the XB12R that I traded, I need it back so I can do some serious riding, because with the "long", I can turn that mutha out. | ||
| Davefla |
Two points from an engineer... Thepup: If something is telling you that 'alot' of examples of one sort of thing is lighter than another thing, that something had better be a scale. Otherwise, nothing is really happening. Everybody else: If you've never heard of "Metty's Monster," then you should Google the words Metty, QC88, and Monster in combinations. It takes a little bit of extra power to go 156mph on a carbureted Sportster... with no aerodynamics. What I'd like to see in a factory RR 'special:' Ohlins suspension, wheels that are even lighter than stock, dual Brembos up front, magnesium castings all over the place, 1350-1450cc's displacement & 85-90 lbs-ft from 3000 to redline, uprated injection system & ECM, a real 'dashboard' with oil pressure & temp and voltmeter gauges instead of idiot lights. Of course, I also agree with Aldaytona: the public response from the sportbike guys would be "HOW much do you want me to pay for that?!?" | ||
| Thepup |
Davefla,Sportrider.com's scale shows the XB12r @461 wet,Suzuki GSXR1000 @443 wet,GSXR750 @ 434,GSXR750 @434 wet,Kaw ZX10r @ 436 wet and the Yamaha R1 @ 450 wet.I guess you don't trust those numbers.I will say again,water cooling doesn't have to mean heavier. (Message edited by thepup on October 03, 2005) (Message edited by thepup on October 03, 2005) | ||
| Aldaytona |
Yeah, but water cooling does mean more complex, more maintenance ect. All (most of) the stuff listed above makes a really easy to maintain bike harder and costlier to own and most owners are FAR from being able to use what came from the factory to it's full potential anyway. If I wanted all that stuff I'd buy a Ducati. For those of us who want to ride more instead of "brochure racing" the XB is more than enough. | ||
| Cabexbx |
Not that it really matters, but I'm not sure I'd agree that having a water cooled bike is costlier to own. Most Japanese motorcycles have very low cost of ownership - maintenance, repairs, etc. If something goes wrong with the water cooling system then of course it's going to be more expensive to repair. I'm waiting for the day (seems like we're already seeing some of this) when the motorcycle manufacturers start upgrading brakes, suspension, etc instead of competing in the weight/hp wars. | ||
| M1combat |
You forgot the Honda... | ||
| Buellerx |
461 pounds? The BUELL website has a claimed Dry Weight of 395. That 3.5 quarts of 20W50 must weigh 18.8 lbs/quart. Or maybe BMC is buellshytting us about the dry weight. | ||
| Davefla |
Thepup, thanks. It's not that I don't trust the numbers- I didn't HAVE any numbers. That's what I was getting at. Aldaytona, I see your point. Hell, I'm LIVING your point- so far, except for a fouled plug episode, I haven't had to do a thing to my 'Bolt except check the tires. All of my own wrenching has been for custom add-ons. But I was speaking of a limited edition. Somewhat more frequent maintenance and perhaps even lower reliability would be expected of such a product, wouldn't they? (I'm sure that an 88" motor can live forever if built & maintained right.) Ultimately, if demand for a Limited Edition existed, the factory would probably already have built SOME thing so described. | ||
| Thepup |
M1,the Honda is 466 wet.I just think its funny when ppl bring up maint.,weight,complexity and cost when you bring up water cooling.Last time I checked pretty close to all cars are water cooled and no one ever talks about how complex a car cooling system is.I don't see a problem of offering a limited edition XB with a watercooled engine,chain drive and 6 speed,no need to get rid of the present design,just offer an alternative for those who want it. | ||
| Aldaytona |
More parts mean more things can potentially go wrong. The "problem" is limited editions are extremely costly for almost any manufacturer and unless they are produced to allow them "to go racing" they really aren't practical but still expensive. Most of us reading probably aren't in the position to purchase a $50k HD sportbike (anyone remember the limited HD VR1000?) it sold for $50k + years ago, I have only seen one ridden on the street ever (insane lust had me following it home when I lost it in traffic, but that's another story). I'm glad to see R&D money spent on chassis and lifetime belts and servo mufflers, ect. To me that's money better spent by the factory, real world improvements. Didn't someone once say " chains, we don't need no stinkin' chains?" | ||
| Court |
Manufactures weights are based on formulas, provided by the same folks who brought you hurricane Katrina relief, akin to the formulas that result in MPG stickers on car windows. Go drive your Ford F-250 and get 18 MPG, then weigh your motorcycle. Court | ||
| Cruisin |
It does seem a little off. Even calculating gas in at about six pounds per gallon, that only leaves forty four pounds for oil/primary. 3.5 quarts of that stuff would mean they weigh twelve and a half pounds per quart. Seems a little high. I hope Buell DOESN'T come out with a RR next year - I can't afford one and would probably ruin myself trying to figure out how to get it. | ||
| Thepup |
Court,are you saying the Buell weight given by Buell is not correct or that the Japanese bike weights are not are not correct? | ||
| Cruisin |
No, he's just saying that the method the manufacturer uses might be different from the method you or I would use. They may leave off "optional" items. The wet weight that the magazines publish are a better comparison because they weigh the bike as we would. Full of gas, oil, and any other fluids as well as all parts on it. (Message edited by cruisin on October 04, 2005) | ||
| Rd3501 |
When Buells are weighed it is with no battery, no oil, no gas, no fork oil. This is the same for the Japanese. Misleading, yes. But this is part of how they sell bikes. Lighter is better. Numbers always sale. |
