| Author | Message | ||
     Buellin_ri |
If it ain't broke......... | ||
| Tq_freak |
that analogy doesn't apply to buell owners, we all "fix" stuff that isn't Broke | ||
| Johnb |
Maybe it might not be too much to ask if anyone with a Knowledge Vault type subject first create the thread there for discussion; and then, go to the XBoard and create a post w/link asking everyone to reply back in that KV thread - just a click away and flagged/referenced in both places. A dedicated XB section of the KV seems like a good idea; however, there is much parallel technology/engineering across all models and we might lose the pooled buell 'community' feeling. Obviously its too much work (and not fun) for Blake/custodians to constantly monitor all this stuff and manually move things to the KV to better organize badweb. (Message edited by johnb on September 19, 2005) | ||
| Scitz |
I like that on the XB board you can see all the new topics no matter what they pertain to. In the KV area you have to go into each sub group to see the new topics. I guess starting it in the KV and then posting a link in the XB board would be best? | ||
| Buellin_ri |
tq freak, never mind. I keep forgeting that we just can't seem to learn that leason. lol  (Message edited by buellin_ri on September 19, 2005) | ||
| Jackbequick |
This all boils down to how you read the BBS. YOU HAVE TO USE THE "Messages since I last searched for new messages" FOR THIS TO MAKE SENSE AND WORK RIGHT! Excuse me, I didn't mean to raise my voice. I think some of you guys are sort of fighting Blake on this but you owe it to him and yourself to force yourself to give the "Messages since I last searched for new messages" thing a try. Use it for 2-3 days and I really doubt that you'll ever do it any other way. Click on the Search Board, go to Search by date and check the Registered Users button, underneath "Messages since I last searched for new messages", fill in your user name name and password, leave "(All of BadWeb)" as it is, and click on Perform Search. If you only read it once a week, change the "3" to "7" or higher, it is that simple. When I need a BadWeb fix I always, without fail, go to Search and do a search of the entire BBS for all posts that are new since I the last time I logged on. I log on at least once a day so the 3 days setting assures that I will see each and every new post since the last time I was on. Search not only finds every post that I have not read under every topic, it arranges those posts in the same manner that the BadWeb Board and Topics are arranged. So I see a list of all the Topics, listed below are subtopics (the subjects tell me what each is about), and below that are the names of who posted, when, and the first few words of their post. The Search for new posts feature is way beyond very useful. It is the key to not missing anything! Get over the intimidation of "new" and "don't know how" and try it. I can follow any number of running topics with it, even after a lapse of a day or three or even 30. When you have a new question or topic to discuss, just go to the XB Board click on the Create a new Topic thing, invent a subject, and post. Everyone that uses the Search feature will see your new post unless they are excluding the XB Board or other areas from the search (which would be a stupid thing to do). Anyone that uses the "Messages since I last searched for new messages" will see your post. It works the same for the KV but is a little more complex because you have to pick a KV Topic first and then Create a New Topic. That causes the new topics to be listed in a logical category. That would be good for the XB board too. Blake has done a wonderful thing by bringing the BadWeb this far, he has made it what it is. He wants us all to be even happier, he is working on making us all happier, and that is what is going on here. Jack | ||
| Tunes |
The name "Knowledge Vault" describes to me old information that has been locked up in a vault. I have never found the info I'm looking for in the KV... and God knows I've tried. I've used "Messages since I last searched for new messages" and I don't like it. It reminds me of two other boards like this one that are organized/default in that fashion. I eventually left because it's a very disjointed way to look at messages... and I'm reading messages on subjects I'm not interested in... and I'm only reading new messages... bouncing from one subject to the next, which is very confusing... So, I just go to the XBoard and OldSchool for my information and to find out what's CURRENTLY happening, which I don't find in the KV. I've been posting and reading on BWB long enough to have developed a relationship, if you will, with other BWBer's... which are from everywhere, and that is cool. And I delight when I read someone has bought, modified, or fixed their Buell and feel the pain when a brother has developed problems or gone down. It's human nature to want to help others but here, we're more than that. To me, the key is "current" information AND the human element of communicating with my fellow Buellers on a daily basis. I don't receive that kind of communication "satisfaction" in the KV... and I still think BWB is the best board on the internet. | ||
| Ronlv |
i think the easiest thing to manage would be to let us do all xb topics in the xboard and let them archive after a time i dont see a need for anyone to move topics around that way we see all current events and we can search for something if we want to i like when these boards are more like comunicating with each other, not just searching for certain things this will bring all xb traffic to one location(better for sponsers) | ||
| Reducati |
i also like all the xb topics here...kv is more difficult to navigate...plus you see issues here that you might not have seen unless you were specifically looking for it... | ||
| Jackbequick |
"I eventually left because it's a very disjointed way to look at messages... and I'm reading messages on subjects I'm not interested in... and I'm only reading new messages..." We can talk about this right? I'm not trying to argue or make you to do it my way. I sincerely believe there is a better way. And I am saying this as a member at large here, I'm not an administrator or custodian. On "reading messages you're not interested in", as you go through the list produced by the New Message facility you can usually tell by the topic (subject) if you want read any further. If not, don't click on it, move on and those posts won't be seen again. And topic won't be seen again next time unless someone posts to it again. I simply skip over a lot of new messages that are not of interest to me (wrong model of bike, etc.). As far as "I'm only reading new messages", when there is a new message in a topic and you click on it to read it, you see all the earlier posts too. You can also scroll back through the entire thread to see every earlier post. Great for refreshing your memory or getting up to speed on a topic that has lain dormant for some time. "..i dont see a need for anyone to move topics around..." On this one, it boils to to information being easier to find either with or without using the search engine. Here are some examples: If I want to find M2 clutch adjusting info in the KV I search "Drivetrain - Clutch:". If I want to do that on the XB board I would have to search through everything that is in the active topics and also through every archive. The reason that the KV does not have a list of Threads in it is because those threads are located under the topical categories ("Drivetrain - Clutch" for example). To see the new posts in the KV, without using the "New Messages Facility", I would have to look at dates in the last post column and go to each category to see the posts. That is slow and arduous, instead I use the New Message Facility and I see all the new posts. If you give the New Message Facility a try, once you get through the learning curve it will make sense. Jack | ||
| Tunes |
"Messages since I last searched for new messages" Been there... Done that... Don't like this feature... | ||
| Djkaplan |
If people can't naturally use a system as it's laid out, maybe it's the system that needs to change. | ||
| Nadz |
Mee three, or whatever, on an XB subtopic. If i wanted to search, I'd use Google. And it wouldn't work anyway, because there are thousands of posts that entitled "have problem" or something equally nondescript. I only have an xb, and while I respect 'em, I don't have time to hear about tubers or thumpers. No, the technology is not compatible. There is another advantage to seeing all XB stuff in one place (besides efficiency)- we get to see what the community is doing, and fix what ain't broke. I've bought lotsa stuff from sponsors (example- Muller Power Clutch) because they were spontaneously highly rated, not because I searched the KV for "improved ball-ramp mechanism" (like I would have actually known that there was such a thing). It seems to me that almost everything has a technical aspect to it, so if KV ruleage is enforced, what's going to be left in the XBoard except "hey lookit my crash damage" or "yay got my 12ss today"? Until this confusion (and yes there is confusion) sorts itself out, I don't have much to post, because I'm not sure where to put it, and I don't have much to read, because I don't know where to start looking. Hope this wasn't too harsh, I really like this place and its people, but it's a-changin and I thought it was perfect as-was. | ||
| Buellin_ri |
here here. Its a way of preventing future problems also. I would never have checked my front motor mount unless it was busted. However since I viewed the xb board I could see other guys having issues with them. Better check mine is the thought that comes to mind. Not let me do a random search on motor mounts. Again love the site but I just don't see the issue with the original format. | ||
| Blake |
"As a thought for a future upgrade, make it so we can search for new topics in a few specific forums...so I can search for new stuff within the last 2 days in the XBoard, Quick Board, and the KV at the same time - without picking up the other boards like Old School. That way I'm not getting all their stuff - just some of the KV stuff which as we take over and get more stuff in there will become more relevant." <sigh>... That capability already exists in the "Search" utility under "Search Options" - "Search topic" option. You may exclude topics from generic searches via the preferences settings in your user profile. Simply check off only those topics in which you are interested and the others will not show up in any "new messages..." searches. If folks would be kind enough to include pertinent information in the titles of their KV threads, such as bike model and year, there would be absolutely no confusion as to the issue of model applicability. There simply aren't many new KV type threads concerning tube framers. The XB's have the run of the place, and if you folks would start using the KV, the XB's would soon have the run of that place too. Here is why we request all tech and informative threads be started in the KV. The XBoard had reached the point of filling up with over 100 new threads every couple of days, thus threads only three or four days old were disappearing into the archived pages. That is highly undesirable. Moving the tech/info topics to the KV will stop that as it will limit new XBoard threads to only those that do not fit into any of the KV topics. Personally I cannot imagine any good reason for preferring to wade through all the topics listed on the XBoard main page, opening them via those links and having to page down searching for the first post since my last visit. Yech! The "new messages..." search option eliminates all that trouble. If you don't want to see posts from the "Old School Buell" board, then don't select that topic as one of your user profile's "Favorite Topics". I get the feeling that some of you aren't fully up to speed on the search options and capabilities of BadWeB. Folks might also keep in mind that some of the old tube framer folks have a TON of knowledge to offer that is applicable to many, even most XB issues. They will be much more inclined to offer advice/assistance to threads posted to the KV. Change is difficult for some folks, I know. I'm confident the relatively meager effort we're asking for here will be well worth the trouble. Every new thread dealing with motorcycle related tech/issues should begin with the model year and name, then the particular area of interests, for example: "2005 XB12R - Front Brake Disk Discoloration" In the future, we'll be providing a forms based input to facilitate proper thread titling and topic placement. The form will ask for the model, year, and item/area of interest/concern. Kind of a KV thread creator for dummies.  | ||
| Blake |
To those who claim that they are unable to find pertinent results via a search of the KV, I submit your searching/keyword skills are inadequate and are thus not likely to return results from a search of the XBoard either. I've never failed to find information on topics of interest in the KV. It sometimes just takes some persistence. One other enhancement for the future will be to add an option to search by subtopic, so that we will also be able to limit our search to not only the "Knowledge Vault" topic but for instance the "Engine - Exhaust" subtopic there too. THAT will be a hugely helpful option. | ||
| Tcskeptic |
I am a relatively new member, but this kind of top down push is just the sort of thing to drive me out of a place. The alternatives offered are clunky, and tend to disintegrate the community "hive mind" that can develop in a more free flowing format. | ||
| M1combat |
Hmmmm.... Why not kill all the birds with one stone? An XB section of the KV that replicates (or... maybe manifests would be a better word... there wouldn't be two copies) into the current XBoard. The XB section of the KV will have ONLY those KV posts, but the regular XBoard would display both. The only requirement would be that if it's a topic that should be posted to the KV... post it there. This way, everyone that likes to use the Xboard like it is will have access to all the posts. Everyone that wants to brows the XB KV will be able to do so. Everyone that posts TO the KV will get the traffic from the XBoard. We'll have our cake AND eat it too  . | ||
| M1combat |
In any case... If this doesn't happen, I'll take the route of posting XB KV topics to the KV and providing a link with specific instructions to reply to the KV topic only. I'll maybe bump the XBoard topic a time or two to get the traffic until my questions are answered. Just an FYI... I've already started looking through and posting to the KV since Blake asked us to. He does have a plan , but I too wish we had just an XB KV. The problem is that there indeed is a good deal of info that's applicable to the tube frames and the fuel frames... One more... If you DO post a KV topic about an XB... Start the thread title with "XB". | ||
| Thepup |
When you come right down to it,what do most ppl come to Badweb for,I would say tech talk.Why not have a XBoard Tech Talk section?Other than tech talk,what would you post on the XBoard section,that can't be posted in another section?The way it was,ppl may have seen an ideal for their bike that they weren't thinking of before,now unless you are specifically looking you will miss it.By moving to different format I think it will stp the exchange of ideas that make it possible to improve our bikes performance.Just my 2 cents though. | ||
| Ronlv |
why do we have to make it complicated why cant it just be xboard and thats it, no need to go anywhere else for anything pertaining to xb's | ||
| M1combat |
Because a lot of the information about the XB's is also applicable to the tubers and vise versa. Also... It WOULD be nice to have a section that IS all tech talk. Of course I'm a little biased but I think my suggestion above solves everyones issues all at once except that it still wouldn't mix the platforms... Maybe that XBKV could be propagated to the normal KV too... Just make sure the XBKV subsections co-incide with the regular KV topic subsection titles. They could just lay over the top of the KV as well as the XBoard. It sounds like a good idea to me... Whatever style anyone chooses to use will be rewarded with the information they need. | ||
| Tunes |
I don't like the layout of the KV... and everytime I look, I never find the topic or subject I'm looking for.... and trying to educate me into the "how's and why's" of searching won't work. We are creatures of habit. Besides, I'm interested in PEOPLE who own Buells, not the technical topics they are discussing. I'll find out what they're talking about by talking to them, not a subject. Not everyone is computer savy... and some people will NEVER be computer savy because it's not important to them. What's important to them is the people they interact with and the bikes they ride. If you make too many rules, people will just go play somewhere else... and if it becomes too cumbersome to use the board, then I'll just stop using it and you lose another customer. I support the sponsors here with my purchases because of the people who interact here. The board is the vehicle that brings people together... seems to me your trying to take the human element out and just deal with technical topics. I can read about technical topics by reading my Maintenance Manual. Boring! This site gives Buells life. Don't take the life outa the site... | ||
| Crashm1 |
Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Bottom left of every screen, click on last day or last week. Check only the posts that interest you. Easy, simple, quick. Want a more detailed search for particular info click on search and search back to the beginning of badweb. | ||
| Gschuette |
Well the entire BadWeb forum uses a fairly dated design. On other boards the XB or whathaveyou topics stay in the XB section with their normal names. It is pretty easy to search through old posts because instead of archived pages they are the same thread just a few pages back. I don't know if that makes an sense but I am sure that those of you who frequent other forums understand. Maybe a complete BadWeb overhaul is in order? | ||
| Dwolk |
The thing about this forum is how easy it is to use to post and read and respond to and exchange ideas...the kernel of a good community. And to remember that the problems of searching and finding on this site come from the tremendous amount of good funny intelligent timely and hard-earned experience posted here constantly. There are other good sites with active and well-designed forums, www.dpreview.com for one, perhaps the best digital photography sites on the web, but they also have more sponsors and (I'm guessing) a larger staff and budget. So, improvements are welcome, searching is sometimes a challenge...but this really is a terrific place or site or community or whateveritis. IMHO. | ||
| Martin |
'a larger staff and budget'unquote. Have you stopped laughing, yet, Blake? | ||
| Jackbequick |
As far those who view it as a "top down push" or unnecessary change? I think those are the people that have not given it a fair try yet or recently. They are mired in their habits and I would encourage them to give a new and fair try. My last input on this is to say, from the "bottom up", that I fully support Blake's goals and efforts. They work best now and his requests and plans will make it work better. Jack | ||
| Henrik |
Here's a question; When you go through your service manual looking for instructions on a specific procedure - what do you do: 1) start at page 1 and flip through the pages until you come across what you were looking for? 2) Look in the "content" section for a page number of a chapter matching your overall interest? 3) Look in the index for page numbers pertaining to the specific part/system you're interested in? Using Badweb in a "Read from Topic List" is similar to option 1), even if you're only reading a particular section - XB Board for instance. Learn to use the "Search" function and all of Badweb becomes very accessible. Because of the way searches are specified within the software, the specific main topics are important, hence the need for the KV. Utilizing the hierarchy as well as meaningful topic headings will greatly help filtering the information you're looking for in a Search. General topic headings such as "Help" are less useful than say "2004 XB9R Charging Issue??" I much prefer the Badweb format over many other "looooong list" type BBS. And learning to use the "Search" function makes a world of difference. Not that difficult either - I'd say it ranks up there with fueling your bike or checking tire pressure. Whether you *want* to learn to use "Search" is a different issue entirely Henrik (Message edited by Henrik on September 21, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
I agree. I used to see it as a bit "antiquated" but the more I use the software the more comfortable I get with it. In any case, I think the only way to get people to conform to what will end up being a useful system would be to force the issue. I think a lot of people will leave if we do that. Granted... Will they be the ones that are interested in a KV anyway ? |
