| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Why the preoccupation with "hard" bags. Soft luggage is the way to go for me. Lightweight, waterproof liners, easy to mount/remove. Hard bags don't pack as well either. If you need more capacity than is provided by a Ventura rack/pack, soft bags, and a tank bag, you need a full blown tourer. I just don't get the hard bag scene. | ||
| Davegess |
We had hard bags on a ST1100 we rented for the Isle of Man a few years ago and they were very good. The backs were designed so that they fit tight up around the rear wheel. The shape was very complicated and gave us maximum luggage capacity. They held a lot more stuff than a soft bag that would not have fit so snugly around the wheel and the drive train. I would guess that fully 25% of each bags capacity was in the area below the seat. Anyway they worked great and we could take them off the bike pretty easily to carry into the hotel. Dave | ||
| Cafébill |
José, I do believe that Buell’s S2/3 series bags are some of the best looking and most functional on the market.  (I have an S3 with both narrow and wide lids.) Even though, they could be done better as you pointed out. Blake, you’re confusing "touring" with "daily use"... Hard bags equal security. They also equal ease of use and daily convenience. I want my bikes to look good all the time, not just when I pull all the luggage off. I want the luggage there to use on my way home from work. I want it there with a spare sweatshirt in it in case I decide to go out to dinner after work. I use my bikes daily to get to work, and I have a number of things I carry with me. (Though I no longer pack the laptop on a daily basis.) There are times when I’d like to stop someplace and go in without looking like Billy the Blue Power Ranger. Ever try and lock up a one-piece 'Stitch? Cable lock through the sleeves and lock it to the bike... Of course where do you store the cable or the lock? What about a tool kit? I’m an architect; ever carry a three foot long roll of drawings on your bike? (Ok, I don’t expect those to fit in a saddlebag...) There’s no need for bags to be mandatory, they can be optional. But that doesn't mean they need to be ugly or to mess up the rear section of a bike. Honda’s ST1100 has body panels that swing down to hide the bag mounting areas when you pull them off! What a concept... Soft bags? Leave the strap-ons at home for use in the bedroom...  Bill ’98 S3 Thunderbolt ’95 XL 883 café racer in Ziploc hibernation ’92 Seca II | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Same here, I ride to work every day to the Northern Va/Washington DC area and the LOCKABLE hard bags are a major convenience. Especially right now when it's 40-50 degrees in the morning and 60-80 on the way home in the afternoon. | ||
| Racerboy |
God, I hope they don't go there with the XB9 platform...Look at the competition: R115RT, K12RS, Futura, ST13, FJR13...And two of those have the main requirement that made me choose a Buell over a Ducati in the first place...An extensive and competitive dealer network...The Honda and Yamaha so qualify...As most of you know my "other" scoot is a R11RT...I would not choose the R115RT due to the linked, power brakes...And I am in a city with only one beemer dealer and if you get into a pissing match with them, you're screwed...One of my bud's has...I'm glad I don't have to make this choice right now as I can't ride either the ST or the FJR...By the way, my cuz (a longtime piano company man) has his $500 down and is in wait for a FJR... Hard bags...Why doesn't everyone just plagairize the beemer system?...One latch/lock...Rented a Sprint ST and loved it but the bags locked in two placed and a separate lock to get them on/off...The Futura's are nice...I don't care how they look...I do care how they function... Heated grips...Don't leave home without them (and all the rest of the heat you can carry)..I don't care if you reside in the Mojavé...This is about "touring", is it not?...Both my beemer and Pumpkin are so equiped... Adjustable windshield...Yep, and it doesn't have to be powered but should be able to be moved while riding... Engine...It's got to have the guts to carry two-up or a big load for extended travel...Doesn't sound like an XB9... Drive train...A belt is fine but a shaft is better...I'd hate to do the "Haul Road" with a belt... Range...200 miles and 250 would be even nicer... Price point...And here's the real world kicker, folks...The friggin' FJR is only $11,500 and a bit more for Honda reliability over FJR performance...This is something, I think, Buell understands but H-D (or maybe it's just the H-D dealers) sure as hell doesn''t and, basically, it's H-D who says who gets to play in this game now... What I've learned...My M2 was absolutely great!...It had character and all around qualities that made it lovable...Handling, engine, braking and reliable enough for my intentions at the time...Two to four hundred mile day trips and back home in the evening...The 'Bolt may be the same, only better...Pumpkin, as much as I love most of her Buellistic qualities, is a real question each time we set off on a multi day sojourn...Two rear cylinder temp sensors on the Deal's Gap ride last fall...John and I will let you know how we get along on the California Touring ride...Yea, we're riding them out there...This should not even be in my mind... My best wishes to the guys and gals in East Troy and I hope the 'Bolt is an unqualified success...But, unless they can cover all the bases mentioned above, there is no "nitch" market for "sport-tourers"... | ||
| Xgecko |
Racer boy made some good points but for me 2 up isn't a problem. There is no way my wife wouldn't ride a bike of her own. The other bikes Buell might look at in their market aim are the VFR, the ZX6 and the Katana. I for one have always found the VFR (OK Intercepter) an intriguing bike (that V4 and the SSS are just cool ) and size/power-wise the XB is about the same. Middleweight tourers are great bikes if you're running Solo and they can hang pretty well. | ||
| Blake |
Okay, so hard bags have their purpose. Personally I'd still rather tote my riding suit and tailbag than have a bunch of luggage mounted on my bike. The best touring mod I've found for my M2 was to remove the bikini fairing and stock mirrors. Their removal significantly reduced the high speed wind pressure hitting my helmet. Now I get a nice steady nonturbulent stream of air. I can cruise at 100 mph comfortably. The new Shoei Z-II helps too. Absolutely no helmet lift at all. Amazing what effect a little integral spoiler at the rear of a helmet can have. My old RF700 would try to lift off at high speed. | ||
| Anonymous |
The following is from a Motorcycle Online interview with Erik Buell in 1995. Does anyone think that the XB12T or whatever will feature this motor? MO: What are you doing about a VR1000 engined model? Erik: It's already been published that we would be the first outlet for such an engine. It's a natural fit...... ......From our perspective, we're very interested in it....... .....We're looking into it, we're working on that project, we can't give a time frame for when it'll be done but there's definitely work going on. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Well obviously things changed since the VR motor did not find its way into a Buell chassis first.  | ||
| Anonymous |
But will it find its way there now? That is the burning question. | ||
| Anonymous |
Not no, but HELL NO!! If it does I'll eat the first one off the line piece by piece. | ||
| Raymaines |
José Q said a good thing over on the GenDis Board.
I think he nailed it for me. That's my perfect bike he's talking about. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
That's obviously my wish list. However, I think they will use a modified version of the current Vrod chassis instead of an adaptation of the Firebolt fuel-in-the-frame chasis. But they should use the XB wheel/brake combination. I love that front brake it works great and has great feel. It won't be sold as a Buell, it will be a HARLEY-DAVIDSON. Then things will get REAL confusing. | ||
| Court |
If it's any help, I can tell you with absolute certainty that there will never be a VR engine in a Buell. Period. There was, at one time, a plan for a bike with an engine that the uninformed might mistake for the VR. But, alas, that program was terribly expensive and, I think, abandoned. The VR motor, from the outset, had some serious engineering flaws. For instance, the shaft on the oil pump had a habit of giving up the ghost and, in doing so, taking out the entire motor in the process as in cylinders, pistons, rods, bearings the works. WillieG, one of the proponents of VR racing, got a 7 page memo from one of the VR racers once (who happened to be an engineer) detailing shafts that needed to be moved an 1/8" and an entire laundry list of failings. It was, me thinks, easier to dump money in the ancillary program, which insiders knew was going to be abandoned, than spend mega-dollars fixing the motor. Hint: Anyone wanna take a guess as how many HD riders actually show up for the Daytona 200? Winning the race was, I submit, of less concerning than BEING at the race. I think this was a very smart move on the part of HD. They are in business to make money and maximize ROI for shareholders. They have done a stellar job. Erik Buell's contribution to the VR Program was the frame. | ||
| Anonymous |
Court, You're right. But the REVO engine is NOT the VR1000 motor. I think the REVO has a future with Buell. How could they NOT use it? | ||
| Raymaines |
Court: I'm not trying to say the VROD motor would ever be used in a Buell, but I need some clarification about something you just posted. Are you saying that the VROD motor has "some serious engineering flaws" and that all the VROD owners are in danger of having "the shaft on the oil pump" ... "giving up the ghost and, in doing so, taking out the entire motor in the process as in cylinders, pistons, rods, bearings the works." Would HD really put such a motor in a flagship bike and is that really the reason Buell won't use it? Maybe I'm wrong to assume that for the purpose of this discussion, VROD and REVO are one and the same? | ||
| Court |
Absolutely positively not. The VR motor and the VROD are COMPLETELY unrelated. The VR was the motor that Harley-Davidson developed and used for their racing effort under Gemini Engineering. The VROD motor is for a consumer motorcycle. The list of common parts between the two motors stops at COOLANT. Don't mistake the two. I am unfamiliar with the VROD motor but, from what I have read (subject to a few that a a manufacturing bugagoo) it is an excellent motor from which an owner can expect, as HD would say "an uninterrupted ownership experience". | ||
| Mikej |
I think we're confusing our acronyms and model designators. VR1000 is not the V-Rod engine, or is it? | ||
| Mikej |
Interview: Ron McGill on Racing the VR1000. "MO: Have Buell showed any interest in taking over? Ron: Eric Buell was one of the original development engineers on this project. But he and Steve Shybee, who is now Chief of the factory race team, had their disagreements and they went their separate ways. I would think in a couple of years you will see Harley produce a water-cooled sports bike. It won't be this engine but it will have a lot of lessons learned from it. Quite honestly, if you put this bike on the street against a Ducati 916, it would absolutely blow it away. It's just they haven't achieved that developmental level in the racing yet to compete with the full racing Ducatis." Article Last modified: 09-Aug-1995 | ||
| Anonymous |
Oooh, a back door. Someone left the screen door unlocked. Nice Pic More here Britten in race trim at speed - sweet. | ||
| Raymaines |
Court: Thanks. Now I'm at least as confused as ever. José: You said you wanted a REVO engine in a Firebolt with X1 ergo's and I assumed you were talking about the same engine as in the VROD motorcycle. Were you? If you were, then what's any of this got to do with the VR1000 engine and why was that even brought up? | ||
| Mikej |
My understanding, that I'm sure will get thoroughly trounced, is that the "REVO" engine is a new engine in development, sort of on a parallel track with the XB engine and the V-Rod engine. Sort of like the factory (take your pic as to which one) was pushing three or five developmental wagons along and seeing which one showed the most promise for production purposes. Remember last year when the rumors were about about the possibility of the twin-Blast engine, and they were coupled with rumors of the watercooled V-Rod engine, and likewise coupled with some other secret engine in development at the same time? I'm guessing that one of the track bikes (or one that several of us sort of saw last summer out in the boonies) has the REVO engine in it. To an untrained eye it would just look like another Harleyish engine. Anyway, just pounding the speculative keyboard here. If I'm wrong, or if I should delete anything here, someone has about 10 minutes or so to get me to edit it out. If this is still here in 30 minutes then assume it's just another MikeJ meander thru imagination-land.  | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Yes it's all about ticket sales at the track. What year had the greatest advance ticket sales for a Daytona 200? 1999 What happened that year? HD signed Scott Russell. The grandstants were full of people wanting to see what everybody wants to see: An AMERICAN RIDER, on an AMERICAN MOTORCYCLE, winning an AMERICAN RACE. When Miguel Duhamel was in the Lead at Mid-Ohio back in 94(?) and Pascal was fighting for the lead at Pikes peak in 99, the roar of the crowd was unbelievable. The AMA let HD get away with breaking all the homolgation rules and race that bike basically because it brought big crowds to the races. That's the bottom line. __________________________________________________ I said Revo, not VR. The VR is too noisy for street use. The REVO is what the basic design of the VR turned out to be after HD/Porsche were done making it street legal from an emissions and drive by sound laws point of view. The displacement turned out to be the one that gave them the power characteristics that they wanted (115 crank hp, good torque) Saying the Revo and the VR are not related is like saying that the XB engine is not related to the XL engine. Yes they share no/few parts, but they share their ARCHITECTURE. Both are 60 degree, double overhead cam water cooled Vtwins with the clutch on the right side and drive on the left. They have the same intermediate shaft that drives the cams on the left and the water pump on the right. The VR was a dry sump and had a dry clutch, unlike the Revo. Court, ride a VROD, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Hang on tight, though. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The VR1000 engine/bike is a RACE bike that was retired last year by HD. THe VROD is HD's new street motorcycle. The engine that is uses is called the REVOLUTION by HD, I call it REVO for short. Two different engines. Sorry for the confusion. | ||
| Jima4media |
Anonymous, Those are pictures of a VINCENT, not a Britten. You can tell, because it says Vincent on the tank, and motor, not Britten. Also Britten pipes are blue like a 2002 Buell X-1W. Ok, I looked again, and your last link did link up to a Britten. Jim X-2.5 | ||
| Racerboy |
My 2 cents...Had an opportunity recently to spend a goodly part of an afternoon on a Futura on two of the best roads in MO...The Futura was on loan to Midwest Rider and it's publisher, Neville McNaughton...WOW!...I had already ridden a couple of V-Rods and then at the end of the day we stopped at a local (uhum) after market vendor of adult beverages...A friend was there with his new V-Rod and as Neville had not had a chance to ride one yet, he was offered the opportunity to take Ed's for a spin...Fortyfive minutes later he pulled in and parked the V-Rod next to the Aprilia...We started both bikes...The intake, engine and exhaust were almost identical...Neville explained that both Porshe and Rotax use some of the same consulting engineers, depending on who has a current project...Both 60 deg v-twins with radiators...And now that Neville had stated the above, I realized that the road feel of the two power plants was very similiar...Of course, the chasis and suspension were completely different...Hmmm...seems like when I ponder this "sport touring" thing I keep coming back to the Futura...'Course, I happen to like the design and that seems to be the crux with this scoot... On another subject: Two years ago there was a guote in the H-D annual report by one of the execs to the effect that the point of the Buell product line was that it was hoped that Buell owners would, some day, MOVE UP, to a Harley...What an uneducated and uninformed view of Buell owners, that!...Here's what I think is going on (and it's just my speculation): Discontinue the "old" Buell's as they were an economic drag and the factory capacity was needed... Go after the youth market with the 'Bolt and other designs to follow...The 'Bolt is so unique that one could argue that it really doesn't have competitors... So, why the hell do you guys and gals think H-D would authorize Buell to try to compete in the sport touring market populated with so many refined designs and range of price points...You can start at about $10k and go up to $17k or more... Unfortunately, if this is correct, we, the traditional "mature" Buell market are screwed as there won't be a Buell for us (and as of now there isn't)...That's my bottom line at the bottom of this rant... See Ya! Bob | ||
| Anonymous |
Jim, The first two are Vincents, the third one is indeed a Britten. In any case I just thought they were nice pics. Bye. | ||
| Jima4media |
The last time Motorcycle dot com left their back door open, Tiffany Amber Thiessen got out. And that was the end of the Buell dot com website on MO. Anybody else remember that little piece of web trivia? | ||
| Court |
Jim: Indeed and I preserved the event, along with the FZR Buell, for posterity. Also, you may recall, was a nifty pic of an MO exec embracing a Buell operative. It's a wonderful life. . . | ||
| Josh |
If I remember I'll post it when I get home. Josh |
